Barrel Length

[hex]

Curiosity strikes once more... Perhaps someone knows the reasoning behind this, or we can leave it to one of the great mysteries of the universe. Why did H&R choose the 25-06 and 280 for 26" barrels? Why not offer the same for the 30-06 or 35 Whelen?

[quickdtoo]

Anyone's guess, they did make the Whelen with a 26" barrel, the 1996 RMEF. When H&R rereleased the Whelen in 2009 it was offered in 22", but they asked what we wanted if other lengths were made, most wanted 26", but they never happened. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,178214.msg1098853584.html#msg1098853584

[hex]

It seemed a bit off to have these other calibers in that length based off the -06 cartridge. Surely the 26" barrel for the Whelen would offer the same logical improvements to performance.

[quickdtoo]

Longer barrels have been mentioned in the H&R Wishlist(FAQs) numerous times in the past 5-6yrs, even when they had eyes on this forum, all they've done is slowly reduce what's available instead of making new offerings. 

Tim

[hex]

So when are we all going to get together and buy the product name and start producing?!?

[hoytcanon]

It has to do with case capacity and burn rates when compared to velocity (fps) the 25/06 and 280 velocity's put them up there in a category were the "powers that be/were" determined... Maximum performance would occur from a 26" barrel...

OR... They flipped a coin.

[petemi]

I think they're coin flippers.  The board members ought to consult the gun smiths once in a while.    I'm sure guys like Brian know which end is up......in this case...long.

Pete

[SHOOTALL]

My 700 2506 has a 24 inch bbl. and it works great . Can't say about the 280 but it would seem about the same . Most who buy 2506 and 280 are looking for longer ranges where 30-06 owners use them for everything close to long range. Then also it might be the bit longer tube is eye catching to buyers. If all bbls were the same it would be hard on the marketing dept . 

[rdlange]

Have a 25-06 for long range, but haven't shot it over 200yds yet.  26" barrel, supposedly needed for max performance.  Never had a shorter barrel so I can't tell.  Might reduce sound also.  Have BC classic wood on it.  Feels nice and looks good on the longer barrel.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I'd LOVE to have a Handi in 270Win, a 35Whelen, a 30Cal reamed to 30/280RemImpImp, a 35/280RemImpImp all with 30" barrels, about 5" chamber swell, 0.750 at the muzzle, straight taper

those would have the handling characteristics of a 26" barreled bolt gun

that should cover most of what I need....  (today!)

[hex]

It has to do with case capacity and burn rates when compared to velocity (fps) the 25/06 and 280 velocity's put them up there in a category were the "powers that be/were" determined... Maximum performance would occur from a 26" barrel...

I would think the same logic would apply for the 30-06 and 35 Whelen and a 26" barrel with "open the performance".

[hoytcanon]

Well, to start with... My post was kinda "tongue in cheek." However the velocity point would hold water if the theory did... As the 25/06 and .280 are somewhat faster than the .30/06 and Whelen (at least potentially). Also, you didn't quote my final statement in the first post.

[SHOOTALL]

Well, to start with... My post was kinda "tongue in cheek." However the velocity point would hold water if the theory did... As the 25/06 and .280 are somewhat faster than the .30/06  not really as a 3006 will push a 130 gr bullet to 3200 fps and a 2506 will push a 120 gr bullet3100 with Rl 22  both from hornady manual. when you compare be fair with bullet weight. and Whelen (at least potentially). Also, you didn't quote my final statement in the first post.

[hoytcanon]

Well, to start with... My post was kinda "tongue in cheek." However the velocity point would hold water if the theory did... As the 25/06 and .280 are somewhat faster than the .30/06  not really as a 3006 will push a 130 gr bullet to 3200 fps and a 2506 will push a 120 gr bullet3100 with Rl 22  both from hornady manual. when you compare be fair with bullet weight. and Whelen (at least potentially). Also, you didn't quote my final statement in the first post.

My friend... you missed my point entirely... I do not have to be fair and compare bullets of equal weight because this is not a discussion of lethality or function... it is a discussion of SPEED alone... and I said that they can POTENTIALLY move faster, which they can using bullets of LIGHTER weight... and how did I get into this discussion anyway... the original post was a joke!

[SHOOTALL]

well of course , sorry a 25-06 with a 75 gr bullet can reach 3700 fps and a 30-06 with a 55 gr sabot can exceed 4000 fps of course that is by your rules that throw fair out the window and IMHO serves no usefulness .

[hoytcanon]

Did you even read this thread??? This is pointless... But here goes! So put the 55 grainer in the 25/06... What do you get? Originally I was just setting up a punchline... Do you understand that part? But now you've got my dander up... A smaller diameter bullet in a case of equally capacity is gonna be faster... Period... Whether the discussion is on optimal barrel lengths (mostly subjective due to variances in barrel qualities and bore dimensions) or whether the discussion is about barrel burner caliber and/or loads... Is entirely moot. Nobody here but you has been making any kind of argument for energy or caliber performance.

[gcrank1]

I want more long barrels.......or how about more long moots..........
A 308 deserves a short barrel but an '06 is kinda throttled, donchathink? Or should the 308 be the long one so it can equal the '06?

[cjrjck]

It has to do with case capacity and burn rates when compared to velocity (fps) the 25/06 and 280 velocity's put them up there in a category were the "powers that be/were" determined... Maximum performance would occur from a 26" barrel...

Agree. Since they are all based on the same case, the smaller bores, especially the 25-06 perform better with the slower burning powders. They benefit from the longer barrel. The Whelen performs well with medium burning powders like 4064 and is efficient out of a 22 inch barrel.

[hoytcanon]

I want more long barrels.......or how about more long moots..........
A 308 deserves a short barrel but an '06 is kinda throttled, donchathink? Or should the 308 be the long one so it can equal the '06?

I so happen to have a spare "moot" in the shop... LNIB, only 10 rounds through it... PM me if you are interested... Oh, by the way, it is a very long moot.

[hex]

Agree. Since they are all based on the same case, the smaller bores, especially the 25-06 perform better with the slower burning powders. They benefit from the longer barrel. The Whelen performs well with medium burning powders like 4064 and is efficient out of a 22 inch barrel.

That's the point I was pondering. With slower burning powders and a longer barrel wouldn't the Whelen performance increase.

[quickdtoo]

For a 22" to 26" comparison in the Whelen, Matt Parliament averaged 2815fps with RL15 and the 225gr TSX in his 22" Whelen Handi, I got 2895fps with the same load in my 26" RMEF Whelen.

Tim

[hoytcanon]

For a 22" to 26" comparison in the Whelen, Matt Parliament averaged 2815fps with RL15 and the 225gr TSX in his 22" Whelen Handi, I got 2895fps with the same load in my 26" RMEF Whelen.

Tim

My theory on barrel length has always been handling first, accuracy second (unless we are talking a pure bench gun, not common with Handi's) and a far distant third is velocity (actually not on the radar)... I can always find a recipe to compensate for the variance in accuracy... but a long barrel is awkward in alot of the places we hunt... and I prefer the "between the hands" feel of shorter barrels... but thats just me... one of my partners likes his barrel lengths, where he looses the muzzle in a fog. 

[hex]

For a 22" to 26" comparison in the Whelen, Matt Parliament averaged 2815fps with RL15 and the 225gr TSX in his 22" Whelen Handi, I got 2895fps with the same load in my 26" RMEF Whelen.

Tim

That is a good comparison. Once again, thanks Tim.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I want more long barrels.......or how about more long moots..........
...

I had a moot, but put it beside my Roun'tuit and now can't find either.

[Spanky]

Another good question is why did they choose 22" barrels for the pistol cartridge Handi's (except the 45)??
How nice would it be to have a 16.5" Maxi, 44 Mag or 500 S&W with a light contour barrel, decent open sights and nice wood on it? The Talo barrels come close but they could be even better with lighter barrels and better sights. The 45 LC barrels also come close as they are light enough but they could be shorter and have better sights.
Let's throw the little Hornet into the mix too. A 16.5" superlight contour barrel and some synthetic stocks would make a perfect little walkabout varmint gun that you could carry all day.
I know there's alot of guys on this site that think the same way... just look at the amount of shorties guys have put together.
 
 
 
Spanky

[Dinny]

Another good question is why did they choose 22" barrels for the pistol cartridge Handi's (except the 45)??
How nice would it be to have a 16.5" Maxi, 44 Mag or 500 S&W with a light contour barrel, decent open sights and nice wood on it? The Talo barrels come close but they could be even better with lighter barrels and better sights. The 45 LC barrels also come close as they are light enough but they could be shorter and have better sights.
Let's throw the little Hornet into the mix too. A 16.5" superlight contour barrel and some synthetic stocks would make a perfect little walkabout varmint gun that you could carry all day.
I know there's alot of guys on this site that think the same way... just look at the amount of shorties guys have put together.
Spanky

+1  My 20" 45LC Handi is very....well.. handy.

Curiosity strikes once more... Perhaps someone knows the reasoning behind this, or we can leave it to one of the great mysteries of the universe. Why did H&R choose the 25-06 and 280 for 26" barrels? Why not offer the same for the 30-06 or 35 Whelen?

H&R isn't the only company to have longer barrels for thier 25-06s. Ruger and Remington makes theirs 24" compared to other calibers in the same line.

Thanks, Dinny

[gcrank1]

This for comparison:
Ruger's No.1 International with the 20" barrel goes 36.5" overall length. They are considered pretty trim.
My 2010 H&R cat. lists the 22" barrel Handi's as going 38" OAL, still in the ballpark, and the Superlight Compact with 20" at 33" OAL but shorter length of pull, of course.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

everything is a compromise

making a variety of barrels would force them to increase stock, tooling costs, setup costs etc..

in most bottleneck cartridges, longer is better for speed, but folks have been drinking the Koolaid that 28" or 30" is too long because they are biased by the bolt action.
you'll note, no one balks at the 28" of tube hanging off the Browning Single Shots. or the 32" BC's

My Ruger with 26" is just a bit shorter than a bolt action with 22" barrel.  I'd have no issues with a 30" on it, as it is already too heavy to carry, so I have one of my shooting buddies carry it for me, and only hand it over when i need to shoot.

I also think weight has little to do with it, as most bolt actions are far too heavy now, with larger cartridges, HUGE scopes, bipods hanging off them... sling/swivels. 

take a tour of a Big Box Gun Store, and watch who is coming in and the questions/answers.
I find that at least 75% have no idea what they really want, and why, and the guy behind the counter is more interested in a sale, than setting the buyer up with a proper gun for what he/she wants.  and the buyer has experience only from reading the trash in gun rags that have rehashed the same ol' **** for the last 15 years.

Those of use who want and own more than 2 or 3 guns have a pretty good idea of what they want, for what they want to use it for, or at least understand the factors involved.

but WE are NOT the bread and butter of the gun industry.

and so the compromise.....

unfortunately, I have the gun gene, and am not capable of having only 2 or 3 guns

JMHO

[petemi]

My wife and I each have 16.5 inch Maxis.  I have 18s in .38-55, .356/,358 and an 18.5 Savage 24 Maxi over 20 ga. in the making.  If I keep them much longer, the .445 and the .45 Colt will be 18 also.  To me, the Handiness of the shorties greatly outweighs the possibility of lost velocity in the above calibers.  Also, I feel the 20 inch barrels on our Superlight .223, .243 and 7-mm-08s are more than adequate the way we use them.  My primary consideration is weight and handling.

Pete

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Pete: there is merit in that line of thinking.

I only wish I could have both worlds... long AND short barrels.

I have some of each, but not BOTH of each!  Maybe one day!