our wonderful republican govenor

[Drilling Man]

  Hey Lloyd,
 
  Take those odd's and bet LARGE, and you will go home with a big payday...  Sounds to me like he's in a union, so you KNOW he has big money to pay off the bet!  lol
 
  I'm always amazed how folks "think" you have to be screwing someone, or maybe be a union member to have anything.  I guess they never heard of hard work, saving for what you want and living within your means!
 
  DM

[Dee]

LLoyd your wasting your breath on people like drillin. You and I both know your right. I bet you 10 to 1 odds that he owns his own company and pays his workers sqat. But you can be sure he pays himself enough for all his toys and "new Chevy."  Typical business owner you slave for me and I'll throw you bread crumbs. Sorry drillin but its people like you who are killing this country economicly. As for me welll I'm "Union till I die!"

Well actually DM, his last statement says: "Union till I die!"

[Lloyd Smale]

I aint playing anymore

[GrassLakeRon]

Wow I can't believe I missed this thread.  I guess my blood pressure will thank me.  The Governor is a RINO.  I watched most small business people around me buy a new car or better now are screaming about paying for health care for their workers.  No matter how you slice it, people by nature are self-centered and greedy if they can get the chance.  I goes back to our self preservation when we ate only what we could hunt or find.  Rick tricked both Right and Left in order to help out a select few, which we now call special interests.  Then when other wanted their share, he said he wouldn't bow to special interest groups. 

The keep them uneducated idea has more merit then you know.  We are not done seeing Michigan head south in many respects.  Rick is no better then the last 4 in Michigan, but to me he is certainly the worst.  His government waste is no different then the others, it just goes by the new term "positive change".  He is business through and through...... Think about it, this is what the country would of had if H. Ross would have won.......... BTW: DeVos would have done the same.

[spruce]

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with someone making enough money to buy a new car?
 
Should the person who invests the money and takes the financial risks not be allowed to make any more money than his employees?  Taken a step further, no person should make any more than his neighbor - what's the definition of socialism?

[45-70.gov]

3 pages


there is another threat with 11 pages of envy

[Lloyd Smale]

got to play again   Ive surely got no problem with a business owner making more then his emplyees or buying a new car. I do have problems with billionairs who run businesses paying minimum wage though. As to your comment about socialism, I have to laugh. right to work is brought to us by greedy big business and just as much by people who cant stand the fact that a union worker makes more then them or gets a better benifit package. Whos the socialist here? Me trying to make a better living for my family or you for being jealous of a union worker and wanting him to join you at your 12 dollar an hour carreer. Bottom line is this is just a leverage move by big buisness. Goverment officials like our govenor are elected because of money from those same people. You were just issued a bag of bs and played like a harp. They in fact turned the middle class against itself and let them do there dirty work. He did about the same as obama did to get elected. Promised the lower class better but in fact they gained nothing. All he did here was bs the lower class, turned there jealousy to his advantage and sold out the middle class for his rich buddys. Ive said it  before if you are blind enough to think your going to profit in ANY way from right to work if your not a bussiness owner ive got a bridge to sell you. Your wages arent going up, the price of goods and services are surely not going down. A few select business owners  both big and small are the ONLY ones that have anything to gain here. Bottom line is people just hate it when someone is getting something there not. thats the bottom line here. IF a union guy makes more then you he surely cant deserve it   that would make your self worth less. Bottom line is nobody ever made you choose your profession or the exact shop or place you work. You decided that, just like i did. You had options just like i did. I choose to do a little better for my family and around here that means a union job. If you werent intelegent enough to do better or to pass an employment test to get a better job i feel sorry for you. If your working at a 15 dollar an hour job because you hate unions and refuse to work for one i laugh at your stupidity. No doubt your one of those who our polititions can twist around and make into one of his zombies.

Can someone explain to me what's wrong with someone making enough money to buy a new car?
 
Should the person who invests the money and takes the financial risks not be allowed to make any more money than his employees?  Taken a step further, no person should make any more than his neighbor - what's the definition of socialism?

[45-70.gov]

why do these people take  those minmum wage jobs offered by the billionare??


might  it be  the billionare  is offering them  more than any one else  is offering them


if  not......why do they stay??

[spruce]

Lloyd,
I never said union WORKERS were bad.  I just have a problem with the UNIONS supporting political candidates who are diametrically opposed to the things I believe in.  When workers organize to bargain with management to obtain a fair and equitable wage/benefits package when prior to organizing they were denied same by management that's a good thing.  When the unions become politicized by using the workers dues to further the union political agenda then it becomes a bad thing.  There were two things that got our current national dictator elected - masses of uninformed voters and unions convincing their workers to base their vote on ONE issue (their jobs). The sad fact is the way our country is going there soon will be far less jobs here, union or otherwise, because companies are leaving in droves to escape the increasingly hostile business environment in this country.
Now, I really enjoy a lively debate, but I would appreciate it if you didn't talk down to me based on your assumption that I don't make as much money as you.  I don't know or care how much you or anyone else makes, or has made - I don't think one's financial situation has any bearing on whether his/her opinion on a subject has merit.
Just so you won't worry about me having enough to eat (just joking!) I probably should tell you I was a union member for 27 years, and was a union steward for about 7 years.  In my chosen profession as a LEO it was something that came with the job, along with working nights, weekends, and holidays.  For me it was never about just the money - it was doing what I always wanted to do and being happy doing it.  That said, I was paid a decent wage and have a decent retirement, not extravagant by any means, but reasonably comfortable. How much did the union have to do with that?  I really have no way of knowing for sure, but there's no doubt it helped a great deal.
Just think for a minute what unions are doing with the workers' money (dues).  They're backing political candidates who are anti-business/anti-capitalism.  Now, if you were a businessman and had millions of dollars at stake what would you do?  Stay here and make less or move overseas and make more?  An example would be the UAW.  They are trading short term gains in wages for long term loss of jobs as more and more of the domestic automakers production is moved overseas.  An intelligent trade?

[Lloyd Smale]

those car jobs are going overseas no matter what we do. they may use the union workers as an excuse for it but bottom line is the only way to compete IS to work at minimum wage. Not much chance of that happening. the car industry make millions back in the 60s and 70s paying union scale wages that with inflation factored in are higher then there paying right now and supposidly loosing money. Where is all this money going? Want to take a guess . they blame unions and want them to take consessions not so that the company stays solvent, not so they can invest that money back into the company but to put it in there own pockets. they proved that beyond a shaddow of a doubt when they gave themselves bonuses with the gov bailout money. It isnt the unions that ruined our car industry. Its gready managment that dont look past there own short careers. they want all they can put in there own bank account and could car less if the company is around in 30 years. But as typical all it takes its a bit of propoganda and everyone believes there lame excuse of the unions causing it. to many just walk around with predudice and blinders on when it comes to unions.

[Lloyd Smale]

You seem pretty well opinionated on this. Got to ask where you fall in. Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker or are you just taking goverment money? Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker thats happy with that. Or are you one of those employers that pays minimum wage and no benifts?? Tell me what unions have done specificaly to hurt your life?? Probably nothing and most likely havent even delt with a union job or knew one of those supposidly lazy union workers. Im glad your happy with those 12 dollar an hour jobs and i hope all your children and grandchildren are fortunate enough to not be able to afford school so they too can work at walmart or some other sweat shop. If there good enough for everyone else there surely good enough for your family.

why do these people take  those minmum wage jobs offered by the billionare??


might  it be  the billionare  is offering them  more than any one else  is offering them


if  not......why do they stay??

[Dee]

I aint playing anymore

Sometimes it's really hard to stay out of it, ain't it Lloyd? People that disagree on a subject such as you and I on this one, should just call it a day. Neither is gonna change their minds, and ya end up not bein friends any more.

[Lloyd Smale]

quit being so logical!! Your no doubt right.

[spruce]

Well, even if we don't all agree it's been fun airing it out!  Remember the old saying "Opinions are like ...........- everybody has one"!
 
I agree it's time for a more light hearted subject, so if anybody wants the last word they're welcome to it!

[45-70.gov]

You seem pretty well opinionated on this. Got to ask where you fall in. Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker or are you just taking goverment money? Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker thats happy with that. Or are you one of those employers that pays minimum wage and no benifts?? Tell me what unions have done specificaly to hurt your life?? Probably nothing and most likely havent even delt with a union job or knew one of those supposidly lazy union workers. Im glad your happy with those 12 dollar an hour jobs and i hope all your children and grandchildren are fortunate enough to not be able to afford school so they too can work at walmart or some other sweat shop. If there good enough for everyone else there surely good enough for your family.

why do these people take  those minmum wage jobs offered by the billionare??


might  it be  the billionare  is offering them  more than any one else  is offering them


if  not......why do they stay??

how have unions hurt  me?
THEY SUPPORT DEMOCRATS


i was in the carpenters union for 12 YEARS
i left  the union   over their support of the democrat party


yes the union  has helped me too
i used to work  ''davis bacon act'' jobs  in certain counties when ever posible
i  made  much  more  working  non-union  and was  mostly saleried,,,and given a truck
i  now average   $100 an hour  based on the hours  i work
but then  i do have a high school education!!!
my  son  is a few months away from his engineering degree..
.he  is already  working in his proffession


oh  yes   and i was a single parrent  of 3 kids
and  an X  that hired many lawyers to try and take them
i  am 57 now....quit wrking 5 years ago


i am not opinionated....its  just every one else is wrong....hahahaha

[Larry L]

I know I'll hate myself for getting into this one but the other half is from Lansing, so I kinda have an interest considering we have property there and pay Michigan taxes. I'm from Texas and we are an open shop here. You don't have to join a union, but we do have unions here, just not mandatory unions. I see mandatory unions as communism, dress the same and get in line and be a good follower or else you can't have a job- try to feed yer family in that regime!. If the unions are so great like some of you think, then the new employees will also be union. But if the union sucks, they won't be joining but at least they have the option. What I think will happen is that the unions will now have to make the membership in their organization attractive to the newbies. A job is a lot more than just a paycheck, employees need to be happy in the workplace. Happy folks are productive folks. The more productivity, the better the relations will be with the company owners. Sounds like a win-win to me if the unions stop the gestapo crap and go to work making this happen.
Now the down side to the unions that you folks in Michigan are not seeing. You're paying out the backside for services and aren't aware of it. My SIL was a principle at the local high school here but has retired and moved back home. She developed a tumor on her brain and the doctors wanted cat scans every year to track it. The cat scan here costs her 1/3 of what it's now costing her in Lansing, and we're not talking pennies here but hundreds. The reason as told to her by the staff at the hospital, the unions. Your benefits are so good that the hospitals and doctors are raping you and the insurance companies as compared to the rest of the nation. Something for you to consider as I'm sure you're over paying for other services as well.

[Lloyd Smale]

I deleted about two paragraphs of this response because i realized i was just to angry and was getting to personal. All ill say is read your post and tell me if its the union carpenters that cause high prices or you. 

You seem pretty well opinionated on this. Got to ask where you fall in. Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker or are you just taking goverment money? Are you a 12 dollar an hour worker thats happy with that. Or are you one of those employers that pays minimum wage and no benifts?? Tell me what unions have done specificaly to hurt your life?? Probably nothing and most likely havent even delt with a union job or knew one of those supposidly lazy union workers. Im glad your happy with those 12 dollar an hour jobs and i hope all your children and grandchildren are fortunate enough to not be able to afford school so they too can work at walmart or some other sweat shop. If there good enough for everyone else there surely good enough for your family.

why do these people take  those minmum wage jobs offered by the billionare??


might  it be  the billionare  is offering them  more than any one else  is offering them


if  not......why do they stay??

how have unions hurt  me?
THEY SUPPORT DEMOCRATS


i was in the carpenters union for 12 YEARS
i left  the union   over their support of the democrat party


yes the union  has helped me too
i used to work  ''davis bacon act'' jobs  in certain counties when ever posible
i  made  much  more  working  non-union  and was  mostly saleried,,,and given a truck
i  now average   $100 an hour  based on the hours  i work
but then  i do have a high school education!!!
my  son  is a few months away from his engineering degree..
.he  is already  working in his proffession


oh  yes   and i was a single parrent  of 3 kids
and  an X  that hired many lawyers to try and take them
i  am 57 now....quit wrking 5 years ago


i am not opinionated....its  just every one else is wrong....hahahaha

[Dee]

NOBODY's gonna win this one.

[Maccool]

Myths And Facts About "Right-To-Work" Laws
http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/12/12/myths-and-facts-about-right-to-work-laws/191810