our wonderful republican govenor

[Lloyd Smale]

our wonderful (republican) govenor just signed a veto to the legislation that would allow ccw carry in schools and churches. Bowing to the pressure and selling out our constitutional rights. In two weeks he signed the right to work bill which will go along ways toward destroying whats left of the middle class and now started chipping away at our gun laws. they will have us all where they want us real soon!!! I sometimes wonder who has it worse a gun owner in california or one right here in michigan.

[petemi]

My way of thinking would be the opposite.  Mandatory small arms training and CCW for all school teachers, administration, and staff.  Concealed and open carry allowed for students at the college level.  I studied Forestry and Wildlife Management at the University of Maine.  We frequently had classes in the University Forest.  Sometimes a shot would ring out.  The Prof wouldn't miss a word and a porky or red squirrel would drop.

When I was a kid, a .22 or shotgun went to school with me almost every day.  I shot on the rifle team and hunted or trapped before and after school.  Anyone ever hear of a school shooting in those days?

This whole gun issue is just a reflection of the greater problem with our society.  It's the total loss of values in our younger people.

And yes Lloyd...we need a new Governor next time around.

Pete

[spruce]

And if our democratic president gets his way you won't have any guns to carry!
 
To my way of thinking a gun owner voting for a democrat is like a farmer putting a coyote in charge of guarding his henhouse.  If given the opportunity coyotes eat chickens and democrats ban guns - it's in their DNA.
 
And by the way I strongly disagree with his decision to veto that bill.  I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened last week and was cowardly on his part.

[tacklebury]

And if our democratic president gets his way you won't have any guns to carry!
 
To my way of thinking a gun owner voting for a democrat is like a farmer putting a coyote in charge of guarding his henhouse.  If given the opportunity coyotes eat chickens and democrats ban guns - it's in their DNA.
 
And by the way I strongly disagree with his decision to veto that bill.  I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened last week and was cowardly on his part.

+1 on that.  I like Pete's idea on firearms training & ccw for teachers, but it shouldn't be mandatory.  Some people really aren't cut out to carry and are actually more danger to themselves and others.  If a student can just pull a gun off a teacher's hip that cannot control it, it can cause a whole other realm of issues.  My thoughts are more that they should be set up with tasers & pepper spray for daily carry and have only a few well trained ones that get a firearm or have one available maybe.  I couldn't believe the NRA's suggestion though that the government pay for armed guards in every school.  They can barely afford teachers in a lot of places.  That'd bankrupt the country...

[45-70.gov]

And if our democratic president gets his way you won't have any guns to carry!
 
To my way of thinking a gun owner voting for a democrat is like a farmer putting a coyote in charge of guarding his henhouse.  If given the opportunity coyotes eat chickens and democrats ban guns - it's in their DNA.
 
And by the way I strongly disagree with his decision to veto that bill.  I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened last week and was cowardly on his part.

once we looses the republican party we lost it all

[Drilling Man]

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

[Lloyd Smale]

bottom line is the rich not only want you unarmed but want you uneducated too so making schooling more expensive and eventually only something the rich can participate in is right up there alley.

And if our democratic president gets his way you won't have any guns to carry!
 
To my way of thinking a gun owner voting for a democrat is like a farmer putting a coyote in charge of guarding his henhouse.  If given the opportunity coyotes eat chickens and democrats ban guns - it's in their DNA.
 
And by the way I strongly disagree with his decision to veto that bill.  I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened last week and was cowardly on his part.

+1 on that.  I like Pete's idea on firearms training & ccw for teachers, but it shouldn't be mandatory.  Some people really aren't cut out to carry and are actually more danger to themselves and others.  If a student can just pull a gun off a teacher's hip that cannot control it, it can cause a whole other realm of issues.  My thoughts are more that they should be set up with tasers & pepper spray for daily carry and have only a few well trained ones that get a firearm or have one available maybe.  I couldn't believe the NRA's suggestion though that the government pay for armed guards in every school.  They can barely afford teachers in a lot of places.  That'd bankrupt the country...

[Lloyd Smale]

Few look at the big picture there. It was nothing but the rich trying to chip away at the last bit of protection our middle class workers had. they will get cheaper labor and make more profits and you will get a nice 12 dollar an hour job to try to feed and educate your family with. What do you think the chances are that once your chev is made by non union employees at much lower wages the price of that truck is going to come down. Not much. the stock holders thank you though.

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

[Drilling Man]

Few look at the big picture there. It was nothing but the rich trying to chip away at the last bit of protection our middle class workers had. they will get cheaper labor and make more profits and you will get a nice 12 dollar an hour job to try to feed and educate your family with. What do you think the chances are that once your chev is made by non union employees at much lower wages the price of that truck is going to come down. Not much. the stock holders thank you though.

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

  I guess seeing how the unions operate around here, then always whineing for more more more, i decided they have out lived their usefulness!  I could tell you some stories about the absolute laziness i've seen with union workers!  Meanwhile, the state is looseing NEEDED jobs to right to work states!  It's one of those DOH moments!
 
  As for Govenors: Engler (R) raised the taxes to fix the roads and they started getting fixed!  Granholm (D) stole the money and put it in the general budget!!  THEN!  She wanted to RAISE the taxes to fix the roads!!  All the time pouring money into the chithole Detroit, where the they STOLE the money and some went to jail for it!  ANOTHER DOH moment!!
 
  At least THIS Gov. is getting something done and perhaps now, FINALLY things will start turning around for this state.
 
  AND don't even get me started on the (censored word) school system!!!
 
  DM

[Lloyd Smale]

Im a republican but was also a union member for over 30 years. Yes theres some crooked crap in unions and yes they need to ajust a bit to catch up to a more modern world then the one that was around in the early 1900s but bottom line is there still the only organization that fights for the middle class and the unions have brought many benifits to even non union workers threw the years. I was fortunate to work in a union workplace where you earned your money or went down the road. I cant speak for all union shops but personaly i think a few bad apples spoiled the rep of all union people. Not even all auto workers are goof offs. I know a few personaly that are hard working honest men. bottom line though is the biggest thing this legislation did for michigan is made the rich richer and the middle class poorer. If your happy working at a 12 dollar an hour job go for it but i think i earned every union penny i made as an electrical lineman. I think i deserved enough compensation to be able to afford my own home (though its far from fancy) and think guys like you and I and a typical auto worker should make enough money to be able to afford to buy a new chev. I dont want to live in a mansion or drive a benz like those multi million dollar a year exects do but i dont think I should have to work 40 hours and still need food stamps to get by. The typical anti union guy here in michigan is a 12 dollar an hour worker whos a bit jealous of someone getting something there not and are to blind to see that the big picture here is the rich trying to oppress us. I goes even deaper to the gun control issue. Why do they want to ban guns? The rich and the polititons have body guards and get permits to carry no matter what. they want our guns so they can shove crap like this down our throats without worrying about the middle class fianaly saying theyve had enough and take action. Mark my words. Your going to look back at this in 20 years and say that this piece of legislation was the destruction of the middle class and we all will be nothing but slaves. You wont be able to afford to buy a home a car ect and you wont be able to afford to send your children to school. Again they dont want us educated either. theyd rather keep those more important jobs in there own little clicks. The saddest thing and what really puts the writing on the wall is that he could do this without even a vote on it. If it would have been passed by a general vote of all michigan residents i still wouldnt have been happy but at least id know that it was what the people wanted not what his rich buddys wanted

[Drilling Man]

  Gee, i have a decent home and a decent shop, all on property big enough that i don't need to hunt anyplace else.  I have a range on it too, and i'm driveing a new PU, have ATV toys and i did it ALL without the help of a union.
 
  I worked for what i have, and i'm proud to have it all paid for by ME.  All it takes is the willingness to work hard and save for what you want.  I never took a handout, and no union had to tell me anything, i did it on my own.  I never even cared for overtime, so i turned much of it down.
 
  I'm glad you are happy with what you have, that's a very good thing!  BUT, for you to think anyone needs a union to have something is just plain BS!
 
  I was a UAW worker for a time, also a IBEW worker, can't say either did anything for me.
 
  DM

[tacklebury]

Since the federal fair labor acts at least Unions are nothing but a drain on the working man in my opinion also.  My buddy was walked out of a UAW shop by an HR person who didn't like him and the union didn't back him at all.  I've seen several of these and I've refused every job that required me to join one.  I'm not throwing $50 to $200 a month to a union that does nothing unless there's something in it for them.  I am thrilled that the place I work will start being able to hire non-union people now.  Hopefully the chip on the shoulder attitude the shop has will be a thing of the past soon....

[Lloyd Smale]

I give you some credit. You at least realize you didnt have to take a union job if you didnt want it. Most complainers are guys whos local town has a union workshop and they want in but dont want a union position and arent willing to move a 100 miles from there mamas doorstep to get a non union job. Keep one thing in mind though. Even if you never worked a union day in your life you benifited from the unions. they brought us 40 hour weeks, 8 hour days, vacation time, sick time, a wage level that non union workplaces had to compete with and most important of all safety.
 
Before the ibew was there for lineman one in four didnt live to see retirement. Contrary to what some think unions have changed recently. Probably due to the publicity some of the stupid things the auto workers unions did in recent times. I know where i worked the year after i retired three union employees were fired. One for swearing at his boss, one for stopping at menards to buy something on the clock and one for stopping home on the clock. the union told all three that they violated work rules that they knew existed and could do nothing to help them. 10 years ago they would have gotten a written warning because the company wouldnt have wanted the hastle of fighting the union.
 
Our elected officials get raises by voting themselves raises. Same goes for the big shots at gm ect. they will give themselves raises and bonuses even though the company is in the red. If I could vote myself a raise anytime i wanted i guess id sure not have a use for a union either. If my company isnt making money all the negotiations in the world wont get me a raise. But gm can run there company in the ground take goverment bailouts and give themselves a big bonus and turn around and blame the union workers for there inept and almost criminal bussiness practices and you guys with blinders on will stand in line to help them put the blame there.

 
Maybe the unions havent yet changed enough especially in some workplaces and in not doing so cut there own throats but that still doesnt change the fact that our govenor who promised not to took it on his own without a vote of the population to shove this down our throats. Same thing hes doing with the ccw laws in this state right now. Like i said if the general population of mich voted on this and passed it I wouldnt have ground to stand on but to allow him to justify this crap without complaining because its something you like personaly is just wrong. Now hes changing his stance on gun control. Again without asking the people.

 How long do you think its going to be before he shoves some legislation down your throats that you personaly dont like. No reason at all that both of these matters couldnt have been brought to a vote. Bottom line is he caved to powerful people in both instances and you by agreeing with him are just fueling him to do more. Our politians are suppose to be there to represent us not control us. If you think this right to work bill was shoved down our throats to help you ive got a bridge to sell you. Who it really helps is the rich. The wealthy bussiness owners that can afford to contribute to his campaign fund. If you think its going to help your pocketbook or because gm can now pay less for labor its going to lower the price of a car I have a few more bridges cheap. Some like having the goverment make decissions for them and control there lives. NOT ME! Right to work is being able to choose where you work and whether you want to go to work in a union shop or a non union shop NOT taking that choise away and eliminating unions and if you think that isnt the big agenda come to my bridge sale.
 
I am about sickened by what our elected officials are doing in this courntry today. Our gov passes legislation that takes away worker rights to try to make more money but has no problem giving himself raises. He shelves ccw legislation but he can carry a gun anywhere and even has assigned security people. The lastest bill he shoved down our throats without a vote shortens the time allowed to get a petition through that would recall a public official in MI. Whos he protecting there!!! Obama says guards in schools arent a good thing but sends his kids to school at a school that has armed security even though his children allready have secret service bodyguards. Nope instead of arming teachers or putting security in schools, a couple things that would really help he uses it as an excuse to disarm honest law abiding citizens. Whens the last time you saw a masacure at a gun show?? He shoves his health care bill down our throats but not him or one senator  or congressman in the country is effected by it. Open your eyes. All of this is nothing but the rich getting richer and the powerful wanting to push there own agendas and in doing so making sure you dont have the ability to fight back. Our forefathers are turning over in there graves!!
 
If your dont think your cutting your own throats at least consider this. Most of the tax base in this state is from the middle class. It pays for schooling, road construction and repair, snow removal, sewage removal and yes even our govenors paycheck. these things all have to continue whether you like it or not. Now take all the 30 dollar and hour workers and pay them 15. The tax revenues are going to plummet. Do you really think the rich are going to take up the slack. NOPE! there just going to take more of that 15 dollar an hour wage you make and i think you know as well as i do that if your making 15 bucks an hour Christmas was allready a bit tight this year! But those big execs at gm and ford sure thank you as id about bet in a few years there christmas is even better.
 
This really isnt a political fourm and ive said my peace and will back out of here now and let you all get the last word in and dont worry about me harboring any bad feelings. You just like me have a right to your opinion. At least for a little while.

[45-70.gov]

. Keep one thing in mind though. Even if you never worked a union day in your life you benifited from the unions. they brought us 40 hour weeks, 8 hour days, vacation time, sick time, a wage level that non union workplaces had to compete with and most important of all safety.


you are  100%correct
it is also true that unions  have done a lot to drive jobs overseas
unions have stood in the way of modernization  fearing job losses
unions have made american companies at a conpetitive dis-advantage
unions have driven up the cost on nuclear power  [ i know  i was union there] for americans


unions have GOOD and BAD
but  for unions to  have a MONOPOLY on labor is  not good
compitition   brings  out the best  in all
we  do need unions......and  unions  DO NEED COMPETITION

[longwinters]

I've worked for a gas utility (union) for 30 years.  I've seen our union officers get on guys cases for not giving a fair days work for a fair days pay.  I've seen them get on guys for lousy attitudes. And I've seen them have to stick up for guys who should have been fired.  I don't doubt there can be/is some corruption at the top of some unions....after all money and power
 
I've also seen our Executives at the top of the company lay people off, take away vacation and pay raises (this was union and non-union workers) and then at the end of the year get large bonuses etc... and have the gaul to thank the screwed over workers for their "sacrifices".  I've also seen plenty of non-union people average over 20 sick days a year while the union workers averaged just over 3 days per year.  I've seen them screw off, go shopping on company time, "work from home" when they were actually over at the school watching/doing the mommy thing with their kids etc... I've also seen where execs get on each others boards, because they watch out for each others backs and payola.
 
Anyone who thinks this is a one sided thing is mistaken.  I'll stay union and be proud of it.
 
Long
 

[Dee]

Few look at the big picture there. It was nothing but the rich trying to chip away at the last bit of protection our middle class workers had. they will get cheaper labor and make more profits and you will get a nice 12 dollar an hour job to try to feed and educate your family with. What do you think the chances are that once your chev is made by non union employees at much lower wages the price of that truck is going to come down. Not much. the stock holders thank you though.

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

Well actually Lloyd, "I'M" one of the stock holders, as is EVERY TAX PAYER, and you guys haven't paid back all you owe us, and aren't likely to either. I'm with you all the way on the gun issues but, the FAT UNIONS need to trim down a bunch. This goes back to: everyone else cut back, but give me mine. EVERYONE needs to tighten their belt, and get off the government tit.
NO ONE should be FORCED to join a union just to work, and cudos for the governor on the "right to work" issue, and shame on him on the gun issues.

[Lloyd Smale]

I kind of chuckle at the teacher bashing too. 4 years of college and they start out at about 30k a year. My mother after teaching for over 35 years made about 10k less a year then i did as a lineman without college. Here retirement is about the same as mine. Yup she gets here medical paid for and i dont but thats the only differnce. Theres NO WAY id spend my money or my familys money to go to college for 4 years knowing that im going to make less then a construction worker! How little do you want to pay them? You want them to give your kids a good education so they can do good in life but you want the teachers to make squat doing it. Most get all up in arms when a school system cuts funding to a (censored word) football team then they do if that same school cuts there buget for the special ed program. Want to save some money on your school system? Pay for what your kids lunch program really cost. Pay for ALL the cost for football, basketball, tennis ect. Thats one problem i have with schools. Why should i have to pay for your kid to play football. I have no problem whatsoever paying my share of YOUR kids education and that include paying teachers salarys. If you dont like it home school your kids. NOBODY is forcing you to send your kids there. You can home tutor them or send them to private school. Believe me if everyone had to pay for private schools theyd about beg to get buy as cheaply as they do paying there property tax to support education. Then you will no doubt argue about the fact its so hard to fire a teacher. They put that in for a reason. How many kids do you think are smart enough to frame a teacher for something they didnt do just to get them fired. How often do you think parents complain because there perfect little Johny isnt getting preferencial treatment like he deserves and complain ot the school board about it? Sure just like in the unions theres a few bad apples that abuse the system. Ive been in enough union and non union workplaces to know that those bad apples exist everywhere and like was said now a days we have fair labor practice laws that protect them too. try to fire a minority non union guy sometime for not doing his job!
 
Then youll argue that teachers get the whole summer off. YUP they do. Its not something they fought for in some contract. Its what the people wanted years ago so there children could work at home in the summers. NOT so that they could play video games all summer. Teachers dont make a dime in the summer. The only way they get paid is if they elect to pass on some of there salary and collect it then.
 
Funny thing is the people that complain about teachers are from about every aspect of life. Alot of them with good jobs. Do you think a doctor or lawyer would be making 5 figures or stock broker or business exect would be where hes at right now if it werent for someone teaching him what he knows. Do you want schooling to cut back to the point that only the rich can afford it? Do you want to cut teachers salarys even more so that they only one dumb enough to take one of those jobs is someone who barely makes it through college. Not me. I want quality teachers and the only way your going to get them is to provide them a decent salary and in my opinion its amazing that we have ANY quality in who is teaching our kids even at the rates they get paid now.
 
Believe me no teacher is getting rich off there job. Typical of most americans some want everything but arent willing to pay unless they see it come right back to there own wallets. Without quality teachers we would be a third world country. Oh well with right to work there will be lots of 12 buck an hour jobs so i guess education isnt going to matter much anymore anyway. I lineman or a teacher will probably make no more money then a guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds. So what good does schooling do in a country full of sweat shops. the few elite rich will be able to afford schooling for there children and they will continue there parents get richer off the backs of the working class agenda. I know i said id stay out of this and surely will now so go ahead and flame me. I just couldnt sit back and listen to the wining about those overpaid teachers. Bottom line is my mother was a teacher and taught special ed for over 30 years and i wouldnt do that for twice what she was paid. She probably spend as much time doing volunteer work with special ed in our comunity as some of you do at your normal job. Real evil heh! One of my sisters is also an elementry school teacher and has been for over 20 years. Ask her sometime about dealing with wining parents. Ask her about how well behaved your perfect little children are!  Theres not enough money to pay me to babysit your poorly raised brats.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup its those overpaid union guys ruining the country  http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=20070798-8a86-41a8-8798-20414db90739

[Dee]

Lloyd you know I respect you, and consider you a friend, so I'm not bashing you in the least but, the U.S. cannot afford the UAW anymore. The benefits, retirements, ect. have grown beyond what the market will support. It's like keeping all the calves the cows have, and not getting rid of any. Eventually the pasture won't feed them all, and you have to bring in feed from the outside. That's where you guys are now with your UAW, or what ever your union is called.
I've watched your posts for a long time, and know that if someone TOLD YOU, that you had to do something you didn't want to do, you would "push back". That is all that "right to work" is. If the union is that great, they will join "voluntarily".
As for the teachers, that is for your "state voters" to decide not us "out of staters".

[Lloyd Smale]

dee youll drag me into this one last time and i mean LAST time. I was a union lineman. Nobody made me take that job. I could have easily went to work for a non union line contruction company. theres many of them around here and everywhere. Nobody made those non union companys hire union workers. What most want is that union shops in there backyard go non union so they dont have to move away from mama to get a job. Just saw an article on msn about all the jobs available out in the oil fields in montana. All you have to do is move somewhere where mama doesnt do your laundry anymore or cook supper for you and you can get a good paying non union job.
 
Maybe if the execs in the auto industry took big cuts in pay and benifits and got rid of those bonuses and golden parachutes the unions would be forced into looking at doing the same but that doesnt happen. GM made that crystal clear after the bailouts. Can anyone here actually believe if GM gets the union to take concessions that there going to sell a car for less!! Sure dont see a new toyota truck made in a non union shop selling for less then a comparable ford. Nope its going in there pockets and the stockholders pockets. Bottom line is there just doing more to destroy there own companys as there will be that many less people that can afford to buy a car. But then id about bet they could care less as long as they can stick around long enough to line there pockets before the car industry colapse totaly.
 
As to state voters deciding, I wish that was the case but it seems that when it comes to union issues or gun control issues our wonderful govenor takes it on his own to make those decisions for the voters. If it would have been a ballot on the vote we took just a couple months ago and the majority of the state would have voted it in id no ground to stand on but as it is the only opinion that got to be voiced was our wonderful govenor who turned right around and did just the oposite of the stance he took on both of those issues that got him voted in. thats my biggest complaint here. not union vs non union.

[spruce]

On November 6th the voters here in Michigan DID vote on an issue related to labor practices, the so-called "collective bargaining" proposal and they voted it down.  It was nothing more than an attempted power grab pushed by unions.  It really had nothing to do with the right to collective bargaining (Michigan already had that) and would have made a shambles of our labor laws.
 
Now, I worked in public service for 27 years and was a union member and there was no choice, if you worked there you were in the union - period.  Would I have joined the union if it was optional - I really don't know, I never had the choice.
Citing good and bad examples of union and non-union workers really doesn't prove anything except there are good and bad apples in both and I think we all agree with that.  Villifying people who make lots of money doesn't seem fair to me - everyone is free to pursue economic wealth if that is their goal.  To me that's what America and the free enterprise system is all about.  If any of us feel we're not getting a fair price on a company's product we can choose to not buy it.
 
Dee hit it on the head - there's no money left to support the entitlements, be they union or non-union.  The federal, state, and local coffers are empty and the credit cards are maxed out.  As painful as it is cuts will have to be made or we will go bankrupt.  And it seems everytime you turn on the news some union is demanding more, and threatening to strike if they don't get it - with a PR campaign like that it's no wonder people are feeling some animosity towards unions.
 
The biggest problem I have with unions is that the lion's share of the political donations they make is to the democratic party - the party that is for bigger government, less individual freedom, more spending, and higher taxes.
Are unions necessary? Yes.  Have they became too powerful? Yes.

[scootrd]

And if our democratic president gets his way you won't have any guns to carry!
 
To my way of thinking a gun owner voting for a democrat is like a farmer putting a coyote in charge of guarding his henhouse.  If given the opportunity coyotes eat chickens and democrats ban guns - it's in their DNA.
 
And by the way I strongly disagree with his decision to veto that bill.  I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened last week and was cowardly on his part.

once we looses the republican party we lost it all

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

Yep now you can strip away their collective bargaining abilities for an honest wage and benefits and just avoid the whole messy negotiation stuff.

Just wonder if lower paid teacher will have the same future commitment to place themselves in harms way next time round given how little it appears some in society value their contribution to help protect our most innocent in their charge 8 hours a day.

[spruce]

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone was bashing union WORKERS, be they teachers, auto workers, or whatever.  My frustration is with the unions per se, not the individual workers.  The hard earned money the union workers pay to the union every month is, in large part, being used to make fat cats out of union heads and supporting political candidates who are mostly out to fundamentally change America to a complete nanny state.
 
I also don't think you can put a price tag on what it takes to try to save a child's life.  Those teachers sacrificed themselves because they loved those kids.  I don't think it would have made any difference at all if they were being paid minimum wage or $100,000 a year.

[Dee]

I guess if one refuses to face the fact that not everyone agrees with them regarding unions, and their unsustainable salaries, and benefits, there is not much else to be said.

[scootrd]

I don't think it would have made any difference at all if they were being paid minimum wage or $100,000 a year.

I don't disagree , it was just a values statement. Something to keep in mind as a community.We entrust them with our children 8 hours a day to educate and yes protect and keep them safe. 

What $ amount is that worth? Yet on other threads on this board we denigrate them , cheer when they are stripped of collective barganing rights , and chastise them when they try and negotiate livable wages and benefits.

Just food for thought. All I'm sayin.

[Dee]

While I see everyone's' value of the teacher "collectively", were my children of school age AGAIN, I would do every thing in my power to get them out of public schools, and either have them home schooled, or private schooled.
These patriarchs, and matriarchs of the present day public school are teaching a distorted curriculum of history, and social values in many instances, and are more of a threat to our social values, and yes, even our culture, than the present commander in chief, whom backs them 100%. JMO

[jdt48653]

get ready to work for slave wages,union wages help to keep wages at a livable amount.(the right to work for less.,i want my teachers to make a living,not grovel

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

[Drilling Man]

get ready to work for slave wages,union wages help to keep wages at a livable amount.(the right to work for less.,i want my teachers to make a living,not grovel

  I also wished he had signed the bill, but on the other hand, i'm happy he got the "right to work" passed.
 
  NOW, if we can do something about the teachers union, i'll be even happier!
 
  DM

  Lots of good teachers her, waiting in line for the old heffers that just collect wages, to go down the road!  Many of them making 80K a year!!  Fighting to have NEW schools with second story SWIMMING POOLS!  that leak all the time!  Getting 10 yr. so you can't get rid of them, even though they are turning out kids that can't read the damdeploma they give them!
 
  High wages does NOT make a better teacher!  You either are a good teacher because you love the job, OR you are just there for the $$...
 
  DM

[longwinters]

Well I am not a Democrat nor am I any longer a Republican.  Did you ever hear of PAC?  Required from non-union workers in my company so that the big shots can grease the palms of the politicians to see things their way?  Whether the politician be Dem or Rep.  Grease the winner to stay a winner.
 
Long

[Maccool]

I think the right to work law is a way for people to free load on unions , for one the fed gov. already has a law that says you don't have to join a union if you don't want to, and all you would have to pay is agency fees which are for bargaining contracts and if they have to represent you , etc.....