CT Shooting Compared With Other Mass Shootings

[lgm270]

Apart from the magnitude of the crime at CT school, I am troubled by the fact that this event produced 27 people shot and 25 dead at the scene.  That's a 92% mortality rate...at the scene.  This is very different from other "mass shootings".      Bear in  mind the official version of CT is one shooter with a semi-auto .223.


Compare the CT shooting with other better known mass shootings:

                                    Shot                         Killed                           Wounded
CT Shooting                  27                             25       (92%)                   2              (8%)





Aurora, CO                     71                            10    (14%)                          51               ( 83%)
(Single Shooter,                                               2  (died afterward)
AR-15, .223)                                                         16.9%  of victims
                                                                              died


Columbine Co                 33                            12     (36%)                      21            (63.6%)
(Two shooters,
Different types of
weapons)


St. Valentine's Day
Massacre                          7                               6     (85.7%)                    1               (14.2%)
(Two shooters,
Thompson .45 ACP)                     

Note:  The single "wounded" man  in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre sustained 14 gunshot wounds and  died 3 hours after the shooting in the hospital.


 The single Aurora shooter also used a semi-auto AR-15 caliber .223 and achieved a kill to wounded ratio of 1 to 5.  In other words, he wounded five people for every 1 he killed.

The two Columbine shooters together  had a kill to wound ration of 1 to 2.  They wounded two for ever one they killed.

St Valentines Day Massacre almost achieved 100%.  Six dead at scene,  and a seventh died three hours later with 14 .45 caliber gunshot wounds.   These were two professional killers using Thompson .45 cal submachine guns.

The CT shooter, a  single 20 year old with a psychological disorder,  who was allegedly afraid of his shadow  and is not even known to have been a hunter, shooting a semi-auto .223 is  supposed
to have achieved a kill to wound ratio of 12 to 1.  That is for every 12 killed,  only one wounded. The lone  CT shooter achieved a rate of 92% killed at the scene which is  superior to  the 85.7% killed at the scene by  two professional killers using .45 cal. submachine guns  at the St. Valentines Day Massacre. 

This does not make sense.    There are serious flaws in the official version of this event. The body count and the ratio of killed to wounded suggests multiple shooters or one shooter with a much higher level of proficiency with guns than the purported shooter in the CT case. 

[guzzijohn]

We supposably know that he and his mother practiced with those weapons. I would also guess that the young children in this shooting were probably more passive victims than in the other shooting settings. They were also small children so each shot probably did more damage than it would to an adult. Interesting that as soon as the police showed he killed himself.
GuzziJohn

[Swift One]

This does not make sense.    There are serious flaws in the official version of this event. The body count and the ratio of killed to wounded suggests multiple shooters or one shooter with a much higher level of proficiency with guns than the purported shooter in the CT case. 

What exactly are you implying here?  That there was a team of ex special forces mercs at the scene doing the shooting?  GuzziJohn probably hit the nail on the head.

[lgm270]

The two professional killers in the St. Valentines Day Massacre using .45 Caliber submachine guns,  with the assistance of accomplices dressed as police officers,   shooting at 7  submissive victims who were standing up against a wall, only succeeded in killing 85.7% of their victims at the scene.

A shy timid  20 year old with a psychological disorder  armed with a .223 semi-auto and acting alone   under the chaotic conditions of shooting his way into a school and being rushed by the principal and screaming,  running,  panic stricken people,  WAS ALLEGEDLY ABLE TO KILL AT THE SCENE  92.5%  OF THE PEOPLE HE SHOT.  We are expected to believe that  a  psychologically disturbed  kid acting alone  achieved a better kill rate than two professional killers armed with submachine guns and assisted by accomplices?

What "training" are you aware of that would make this possible?  The evidence is that he shot targets with his mom at a shooting range.  Not that he trained to shoot his way into buildings and commit mass murder under  such chaotic conditions.  

If he acted alone with a semi-auto .223,  I believe the kill to wounded ration would be more like the Columbine shooting  (1:2) where two shooters with submissive victims only killed 36% at the scene.  They killed 12 and wounded 21.  There were twice as many wounded as killed.   

Also bear in mind that the single "wounded" St. Valentines Day victim sustained 14 wounds from .45 caliber bullets....yet he managed to survive long enough to be transported to a hospital where he  regained consciousness and was questioned by the police!

There is something wrong with the official story of the CT Shooting on its face.  We need to ask questions about this because it just doesn't make sense.

[jjas]

What doesn't "make sense" to you?

The kid walks in and  shoots  up a bunch of defenseless women and children (this after shooting his own mother in the face several times).

It's not like doing that would take skill....it's takes the mind of a nut job.............
 
 
 

[Redtail1949]

Guzzijohn probably came closet to answering why so many were killed. little kids most likely had no idea of the real dangers why frightened i am sure they were most likely passive standing still. also they were in the confines of a small room. except for they adults killed in the hallways trying to confront him.
the distances involved did not require the proficency of an Annie Oakly. the damage to the small bodies with in some cases up to eleven hits certainly would account for a high death rate.
nope no hidden grassy knoll shooters here. just a mentaly deranged 20 year old intent on murder.

[lgm270]

What doesn't "make sense" to you?
The kid walked in, shot up a bunch of defenseless women and children (this after shooting his own mother in the face several times).
It's not like doing that would take skill....it's takes the mind of a nut job.............

A  20 year old "nut job" was able to  kill  better than two professional killers armed with submachine guns in the St. Valentines Day Massacre? 
 
Ever since the JFK assassination it has never ceased to amaze me that so many conformist type of people  uncritically  attribute seemingly inexplicable  events to someone being a "nut job" rather  than asking  questions and thinking  critically about the facts.  Such people would rather attack those of us who do ask questions about the problem instead of attacking the problem itself.   Discussing the problems with the  JFK killing, people often shrugged it off with "He was just a "nut."  This is no answer.   From the the Spanish American War to the JFK assassination to the Bengazi fiasco, our government hasn't told the truth about anything.  We need to ask questions when things don't make sense.   

The victims in all of the  Aurora, Columbine and St. Valentine's Day shootings were  all "defenseless".  The victims in the Columbine  incident were also "kids" and  offered no resistance against the two shooters. Nevertheless, the two Columbine shooters only achieved a 36% kill rate, far below the 92%  kill rate of the CT shooter.   The St. Valentines victims were also defenseless and  offered no resistance.  Notwithstanding the firepower used on them by two professional killers, one victim lived long enough to be  taken to the hospital, regain consciousness and be questioned by police, notwithstanding fourteen (!) .45 caliber gunshot wounds. 

It is statistically out of bounds for someone like the  CT shooter to have achieved a kill rate of 92% under the circumstances presented to us.  The fact that most victims were children doesn't explain it.   Most children are more resilient than many adults.  The statistics indicated  either (1) Multiple shooters or (2)  a higher level of proficiency than  this 20 years old psycho.

 

[jjas]

lgm270

It is statistically out of bounds for someone like the  CT shooter to have achieved a kill rate of 92% under the circumstances presented to us.  The fact that most victims were children doesn't explain it.   Most children are more resilient than many adults.  The statistics indicated  either (1) Multiple shooters or (2)  a higher level of proficiency than  this 20 years old psycho.

Statistically out of bounds?  The "kids" @ Columbine were teenagers.  Old enough to instinctively hide and/or try to run from danger.   The children involved here were 6 and 7 year olds.  Told by their teachers to try to hide and be quiet, in a room there was no escape from.
If you want to believe that there is more to this than what has been presented, have @ it. 
I have better things to do......
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[lgm270]

lgm270

It is statistically out of bounds for someone like the  CT shooter to have achieved a kill rate of 92% under the circumstances presented to us.  The fact that most victims were children doesn't explain it.   Most children are more resilient than many adults.  The statistics indicated  either (1) Multiple shooters or (2)  a higher level of proficiency than  this 20 years old psycho.

Statistically out of bounds?  The "kids" @ Columbine were teenagers.  Old enough to instinctively hide and/or try to run from danger.   The children involved here were 6 and 7 year olds.  Told by their teachers to try to hide and be quiet, in a room there was no escape from.
If you want to believe that there is more to this than what has been presented, have @ it. 
I have better things to do......

We don't know what happened in the two class rooms because all persons present were killed, including the shooter.  I have seen news reports about alleged conversations between the shooter and one of the teachers, but since all witnesses are dead these reports are no more credible than the report that the AR-15 was found in the car in the parking lot after the police arrived.   We know that some of the CT victims resisted but much of what happened is speculation.

The teen aged victims  at Columbine did not try to run from danger  or to resist,  but  rather passively submitted to the control of their  two captors who shot 33 of them but only killed  12, for a kill rate of 35%, far below the extraordinary  92% kill rate achieved by the CT shooter.  It is statistically anomalous  for  the  single  CT  shooter to achieve such a higher kill rate than multiple Columbine  shooters under similar circumstances involving passive victims who did not resist.

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

[jjas]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

[lgm270]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

Talking about Sandy Hook.

[SHOOTALL]

What doesn't "make sense" to you?
The kid walked in, shot up a bunch of defenseless women and children (this after shooting his own mother in the face several times).
It's not like doing that would take skill....it's takes the mind of a nut job.............

A  20 year old "nut job" was able to  kill  better than two professional killers armed with submachine guns in the St. Valentines Day Massacre?  In both cases it was like shooting fish in a barrel. And having shot both the AR is much easier to shoot. Lets face it in both cases the shooter(s) most likely had mental problems and none seemed to mind killing people. I dare say in both cases the weapon was used like a bullet hose .
 

[jjas]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

Well?

[SHOOTALL]

often light from different sources can project two showders from one person , case here who knows but it should be easy to determine if anyone wants to know.

[lgm270]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

Well?

Sandy Hook. 

[jjas]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

Well?

Sandy Hook.

According to press reports from multiple sources, there were two people who survived the shooting.  I don't know if these two people have been able to tell the authorities what they may/may not have seen @ this time.  Regardless, the school nurse was hiding under her desk and saw the gunman's (singular) legs through the back of the desk.  In the interview I watched, she said he (one gunman) walked in, stood there for a few seconds and left.
Regardless....I noticed this is your second post about multiple gunmen.  If you believe that, have @ it.  Until I hear evidence that shows more than one person involved, I'm not buying it. 
Like with JFK, some people just don't want to believe a lone, wack job, loser could have done something so heinous by himself.  50 years after JFK's assassination, not one shred of credible proof has ever placed a second gunman in Dallas.  I have a feeling the same thing will happen @ Sandy Hook.
Good day, Sir.
 

[Brett]

Six and seven year old kids generally freeze when confronted with danger making them easier targets.  I also believe that the shooter was completely emotionally disconnected from his actions.   I doubt that in his mind he saw them as children or even as living, breathing targets. 

Like us when we go to the shooting range we may have no trouble shooting groups on paper you could cover with a quarter, or ring a steel gong with ease.  But what often happens in the field when we are looking down the barrel at a living animal?   Our emotions take over and we get a case of 'buck fever'. We may shake uncontrollably, have difficulty regulating our breathing, get tunnel vision, etc. because we know we are about to drop the hammer on a living thing.  This young man's twisted mind probably didn't feel a thing as he methodically gunned those kids down one by one.     

[lgm270]

lgm270

I have gone back and reviewed as much "coverage" as I could find on Youtube and other sites.  Not a single child  or anyone else  presented saw the shooter or anything else.  They just said they heard gun shots and were told to hide, be quiet, etc.  As yet no person has been interviewed   who actually saw the shooter.   One eye witness is recorded on the 9/11 call as having seen "two shadows running"  past the gym.  This eye witness  identified "two shadows" not just one.

Are you talking about Columbine or Sandy Hook here?

Well?

Sandy Hook.

According to press reports from multiple sources, there were two people who survived the shooting.  I don't know if these two people have been able to tell the authorities what they may/may not have seen @ this time.  Regardless, the school nurse was hiding under her desk and saw the gunman's (singular) legs through the back of the desk.  In the interview I watched, she said he (one gunman) walked in, stood there for a few seconds and left.
Regardless....I noticed this is your second post about multiple gunmen.  If you believe that, have @ it.  Until I hear evidence that shows more than one person involved, I'm not buying it. 
Like with JFK, some people just don't want to believe a lone, wack job, loser could have done something so heinous by himself.  50 years after JFK's assassination, not one shred of credible proof has ever placed a second gunman in Dallas.  I have a feeling the same thing will happen @ Sandy Hook.
Good day, Sir.

My original post references 2 wounded.   I did not say he killed everyone, but only 92%.   I am not aware that the  wounded survivors  have  been interviewed or their present status, except that they're still alive. 

As for the school nurse who  momentarily saw one pair of legs from her hiding place under the desk,  I was not aware of  her.  She had a very limited perspective but is certainly part of the puzzle.

There's also the question of the security cameras.  I saw another site that found the school districts SOP on security cameras and they prescribed a retention period of 5 days. That means we should be able to see the security camera vids at some time, as we did of Columbine.   


 

[BUGEYE]

Per the medical examiner, each child was shot several times. that's why the high mortality rate.

[lgm270]

Per the medical examiner, each child was shot several times. that's why the high mortality rate.

Yes, I am aware of that.  The  multiple hits and 92% mortality rate suggest a very strong determination to KILL that does not appear to be present in other  mass shootings, with the exception of the 1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre which was carried out at point blank range against 7 submissive victims by two professional killers armed with .45 caliber sub machine guns.

None of the other mass shootings reflect this level of determination to KILL as the CT shooting.

With regard to the CT shooting, I did not realize the total of  27 shot  included his mother, although it did include him.   The 27 total shot should therefore  be revised downward to 25  to eliminate him and his mother as should the number  killed be revised down from 25 to 23.  His kill rate is  still 92%, much higher than all other shootings except the  1929 St. Valentine's Day Massacre (85.7%), but still not entirely  comparable  because two shooters carried out the St. Valentine's Day shooting and used more powerful weapons.
 
Cleveland School Massacre (1989)
Stockton CA.

                Shot        Killed         Wounded
                  35          5 (14.2%)                30


 I have also reviewed the history of the infamous 1989 Cleveland School Massacre where J. Patrick Purdy opened up and fired 106 rounds of 7.62.39mm from a semi-auto AK-47 on a crowded play ground and killed 5 and wounded 30.  He also shot himself with a pistol.  His kill rate is 14.2%, which is  comparable to the 16.9%  kill rate of the Aurora CO shooter. Both incidents involved a single shooter with a semi-auto opening fire on large crowds, rather than captive, submissive people in class rooms like in CT. 
 
 The distinctive aspect of the CT mass  shooting is the extremely high mortality rate...92%, which is approximated only  by the St. Valentine's Day Massacre of 1929.  The two  infamous Columbine shooters only achieved a kill rate of 36%.

[lgm270]

Not sure but, the official storyline for Sandy Hook claims all the little children were killed in one classroom.  Probably better to look at the stats as ratio of killed to number of rounds fired,  also some time parameters__how long was the nutter in that classroom with those kids..
.
I'm more interested in finding out more info on certain rumors,,,one being this mother was a video game producer and worked for DARPA...
.
..TM7

The "official storyline" is all over the place.  There are some reports of 2 wounded survivors and other reports that claim no survivors at all.  This means a 100% mortality rate, which is virtually unprecedented in  mass shootings.  Even the St. Valentine's Day Massacre shooters who were  professionals armed with .45 cal submachine guns against submissive victims who did not resist   did not kill all 7 victims at the scene...one who sustained fourteen .45 wounds lived for three hours, long enough to be transported to the hospital, regain consciousness and be questioned by police.

The data shows that it is not easy to kill everyone at the scene.  Now, for the first time known, we have a 20 year old "nut" who achieves  a higher  fatality rate than professionals?   There's something out of line statistically with this.   The Sandy Hook shooting is statistically  different from other  mass shootings.

[lgm270]

I followed up on the 2011 Tucson AZ shooting where a lone shooter with a Glock 9mm pistol shot 14, kllled 6   (42.8%) and wounded 8 (57.1%).

Notwithstanding un armed victims, the element of surprise and a semi-auto pistol, he still produced more wounded than killed.

We know very little about the details of the CT shooting because, unlike all other mass shootings, in this one  all eye witnesses who   actually  saw the shooter  or the  shootings are ALL DEAD.

Thus far two things distinguish this mass shooting for all others:  (1)  92-100%  fatality rate  of victims  and (2) elimination of all eye witnesses.





I am unable to find a single event like this.

[lgm270]

Today's news reports are settling on a total of 26 killed, which consists of 20 children and 6 adults.  Apparently the media has superseded earlier reports of 2 survivors in the hospital with this more updated version.  This is a  fatality rate of 100%...UNPRECEDENTED IN THE HISTORY OF MASS SHOOTINGS.

It is also unprecedented for all of the eye witnesses to something like this to be eliminated.   All of the "witnesses" interviewed on TV merely "heard" gunfire, but did not see the killings or the shooters. 

Do not forget that  all of our information about this is filtered through a politically partisan news media that functions as a branch of the Democratic Party.   

[lgm270]

There was another elementary school shooting in 1988 in the State of Illinois where a lone gunman, or gunwoman, Laurie Wesserman,  entered Hubbard Woods Elementary School with a .357 magnum, 32 S& W and .22 LR Baretta and shot  five children.  One died and 4 survived. 

That's a death rate of 20% and a survival rate of 80%.  This in a shooting of children inside a building.

It should also be noted that  the children  in class rooms are reported to have scattered and tried to run away rather than meekly submit to being shot as is being reported about Sandy Hook. 

My basis position is that the death rate at Sandy Hook is statistically out of the norm with all other mass shootings, even mass shootings of school children who's movements were confined by being inside class rooms, as in Hubbard Woods elementary school where 80% of the victims survived.

The historically and statistically unprecedented  death rate at  Sandy Hook  strongly suggests more than one shooter was involved.   This is a morbid subject to have to research and deal with, but it has extraordinary political consequences and we cannot allow ourselves to be blinded and our ability to ask questions to be cut off because of emotion and sentimentality.

[FPH]

How about V Tech.?  Just asking ( don't know the kill rate.

[FPH]

Killed 32 wounded 17.

[FPH]

I think you have to take into account the victims and the setting.