Author Topic: It's gotten too easy.  (Read 5305 times)

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Offline mannyrock

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It's gotten too easy.
« on: December 20, 2012, 07:48:00 AM »
 
  When was a kid growing up in Virginia in the 1960s, it was a pretty big deal if someone bagged a deer.  They would drive it up and down the block in their pickup truck, stopping by to show it to all of their friends and relatives.
 
   Now, I think its just too easy.  If you own or lease a piece of property with 40 acres of hardwoods or mixed terrain, in any county where deer hunting with a firearms is legal, then unless you are really really unlucky, or a really really bad hunter, you will get a deer.    Use a tree stand, dress in camo, put out the proper deer lure, use the proper cover scent, and set up within 100 yards of any food source or scrape, and you will get plenty of easy shots.
 
    I only hunt in the afternoons now, because I can't stand the early morning cold.  My dilemna is, that it is really easy to shoot a doe, so I kinda feel bad about it.  On the other hand, really outstanding bucks are hard to come by, but their meat is so danged gamey that I hate it.  So, shooting one just for the antlers, and then donating the meat to hunters for the hungry, makes me feel kinda bad too.
 
   My brother has the right to hunt on 1,500 acres of private land that adjoins the Shenandoah National Park.  He and his 5 friends have done this for 30 years.   It is not unusual for them to kill 2 or 3 nice bucks every weekend they hunt.  They have stopped shooting does, because it just means that  they have to go home early.  (They generally wait until closing day to take a doe, just to have some meat.)  Muzzleloading season is really easy for them, because the deer are just wandering around.
 
     Maybe I've been doing this too long?
 
Best, Mannyrock

Offline jhm

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 08:12:49 AM »
     Mannyrock:  I  am 66 yrs. old and have been hunting deer for 50 + yrs. and yes we are getting much better at deer hunting or deer hunting has gotten alot easier, however I believe that there are alot more deer today that their were yrs. ago, and it has almost gotten to the point where I dont have as much fun going anymore, with that said I can say Ispend more time now feeding the deer and making the place for their liking than I did yrs. ago.  Jim

Offline BRL

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 08:15:32 AM »
Yes, you may have been doing this too long...but you are also one of the lucky ones.  :D I have been trying to get into the hunting sport for 25 years without much luck. I didn't know anyone who hunted while I was growing up, still don't really. So, I've been trying to do it on my own. Here in S. Florida we have 2 options. Pay a lot for a lease or hunt public land. I have hunted public land off and on without seeing and game. Of course, even after 25 years, I'm still new because I do it often enough.

I'm now 44 years old and have never shot a whitetail. I've gone on some paid hunts for hogs and exotic deer but still no whitetail deer. The paid hunts, down here anyway, don't do much for learning the sport or creating a challenge. But, I thought I would try it. I've taken some pretty good meat home though.

I have 3 boys aged 8, 6 and 3. I had hoped that I would have been a seasoned whitetail hunter by now so I could teach my kids and give them what I didn't have growing up. That dream has slowly started to fade over the last several years.

A lot seems to be about geography. I just happen to be in a "deer challenged" geography (and construction crazed geography). It's nice to hear how successful others are though and what they have access to. I know that on this forum, I'm not the norm. That's one of the reasons I like it here. I get to see pictures of great deer that people took, pictures of nice property shared with their kids and hear about some great success stories and time spent in the woods.

Thanks for the experiences.
B. Leeber
Nutritional Biochemist

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 08:26:55 AM »
if younger hunters had the knowlege of older hunters along with the desire to shoot younger hunters have there would be no deer. 
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 10:09:57 AM »
I hunted a small farm, 162 acres, in Ill that was mostly white oak, two ponds, and surrounded by thousands of acres of corn and soybeans, and you couldn't sit in the woods for an hour without seeing deer.
as a teen in that area, a deer made the news.
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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 01:10:20 PM »
Quote from: Fred
I'm now 44 years old and have never shot a whitetail.

Come On Man!  You need to hunt somehwere with plenty of WHITETAILS! 

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 09:16:00 PM »
You guys are killing me.  The black tail deer around where I live are nearly impossible to hunt.  They all migrate to the city limits during hunting season.

If it were legal to lasso one in my yard, I'd have a chance.

Tony

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 03:07:02 AM »
If it were legal to lasso one in my yard, I'd have a chance.

Tony

Oh no!  Don't do that.  Read this for the reason why:  http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/ropedeer.asp

Offline mannyrock

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 04:37:50 AM »
Hey BRL,
 
   I hope you don't mind if I give you some friendly advice.  When I first started deer hunting, I didn't kill a deer for four years.  Why?  Because during the first three years, I was hunting where there were no deer.   It was like fishing in an empty pond.   
 
   Why was I hunting in areas where there were no deer?  Because those were the only convenient places I could find to hunt.  Very big mistake.  Total waste of time.
 
    If you go to where there are lots of deer, even with heavy hunting pressure, you will see lots of deer.  The more you see, the more you learn, and eventually you will get one.  Once you get your first one, your confidence goes sky high, and you will get more.
 
   So how to find areas where there are lots of deer?  Easy.  Go on line, and find out the annual deer harvest for every county in your state.  I will guarantee that two or three of those counties will stand head and shoulders above the rest, with large numbers of deer.   Then, place an ad in the local papers of those counties, saying that you are a hunter looking to join a hunting club.   In most of the south, these clubs have 500 to 1,000 acres under lease, with maybe 5 to 10 members.  Yes, it will cost you $1,000 to $2,5000 or so a year to join, but then you will have a large area to hunt in a place that is full of deer. 
 
   Once you start hunting at the club, you can get to know every little farm and back road in the vicinity.  Stop and talk to people in their yards.  Stop and talk to people at the little stores.  Stop and talk to the owners of the gas stations and little country stores.   If you put the right feelers out, you will find someone with maybe 30 to 40 acres, who would be willing to lease it to one person only, as long as they meet you first and like you. Tell everyone that you don't like clubs, because there are too many people and too much noise.
 
    These folks typically hate clubs, because they have had bad experiences with them (slob hunters, 4-wheelers, cut fences).  If you make clear to them that you won't use a 4- wheeler, and will park exactly where they tell you, and will leave a little flag up at their doorstep (red hankerchief) to let them know whenever you are there on the land, and will give them half the meat they want, and that you will only take TWO deer per year  max, and will never bring a guest except for one son at a time under your direct vision, then you will find someone who will lease their little place to you.   Very often, it is an older person in their 70s, so you will have to take the time to talk to them and listen to all of their stories, and say yes and no maam.   You should also routinely knock on their door after every hunt, just to say high, and leave them a pie or other small gift.  A Christmas card every year is a must.
 
   One big issue with these small areas, is that you always want to get the EXCLUSIVE right to hunt.  Often, these folks will have a nephew or grandson who wants to show up now and then, just enough to ruin your hunt.  You just have to be honest in advance, and tell the owner that this is really the only condition that you really have to have, i.e. exclusive, because you have to drive so far and have so little  time to hunt.   A one sentence "lease" is always enough.  (In return for payment of $X, I hereby  give Mr. X the exclusive right to hunt on my land during the 2013 hunting season, located at ________________.)  I use to just handwrite it on a piece of paper in front of them.  One time, I had a person who was reluctant to lease (sitting just on the edge of the fence), and I told them that I understood that it affects them to take a deer off of their place, so I agreed to pay them $100 cash bonus if I took a deer.  They jumped at the chance.
   You don't need a large amount of land to successfully hunt deer.  Just the exclusive right to hunt on 30 to 40 acres with mixed terrain in a county where there are lots of deer..   Don't sign a lease for a 40 acre place that has a 38 acre planted field, with just a tiny fringe of woods or brush surrounding it.  These are rarely productive, as the deer learn to "time" you, and will make sure they never come into or out of the field unless it is pitch dark.
 
     Also, you are lucky to be somewhat near central Alabama and Mississippi.  These places have huge deer populations, with really big deer.  There are always hunting clubs that are formed up in these areas every summer.
 
    If you hunt at a large hunting club, then find that little patch of 2 to 3 acres where nobody else in the club hunts.  It could just be a patch of thicket, right on the side of the entrance road.  It could just be a little wooded ridge, separated by a small ravine, that is only 150 yards from the hunting camp.  It could be the caved-in wooden tenant shack surrounded by brush.   It could be a filthy swamp/marsh, with just a few trees around the edge.  That is where the big deer will be!
 
   Hope this helps.
 
Mannyrock
 
 
 
 
   
 
   

Offline BRL

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 05:18:36 AM »
Land_Owner...I know! We've had conversations in the past about it.

Mannyrock...That is some great advice, thank you for taking the time to write that.

I think that 2013 will be a good year for me to put a plan in place to actually DO something CONSISTENT for this fall. That's been a problem of mine. Due to not really being sure, I procrastinate. Then, I've run out of time. Business is getting better for me and I've hired an assistant to manage the day to day activities of my store. I should have more available time. So, I hope to start planning early and actually stick to my plan.

Thank you!!
B. Leeber
Nutritional Biochemist

Offline jhm

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 06:33:41 AM »
     You need to get a couple books on deer hunting and study the kinda are to look for to deer hunt, like several have said you need to hunt where the deer are.  Deer hunting isnt a 2 week  thing you do in the fall, it is a year long process, it has taken me several years to make the place a welcome place for the deer, 1st. I quit letting just anyone hunt as it costs in the long run, I had to close and post my place to people, as they were cutting fences, dumping trash, leaving gates open, and I am sure they were responsible for some poaching or just slob hunting,  after a while when I got it fenced so I could keep the cattle away from the deer area I would plant food plots and building stands, feeders, etc. here we can feed deer on private property, some states dont allow this, so you need to find their food sorce, thats why it is a year long passion as food choices change during the year, I could go on and on but I need to go check some feeders and we are thru. deer hunting for the season.  Jim

Offline LanceR

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 07:28:46 AM »
gezzer, you could try a really stout bow fishing rig.....

mannyrock, you are right in that deer hunting has, for most of us, gotten a lot easier over the last 60-70 years and I don't see that as a bad thing.  Just because some of us used to have to 5 miles walk uphill to the hunting grounds (both ways) and in 3' of snow (for the whole season) without ever seeing a deer don't need to wish those things on anyone else.

Using New York as an example there are more than twice the acres of woodland that there was a century ago due to the increase in farming productivity and the abandonment of a lot of marginal farming acreage.  Most of that has happened since the 1930s and much of those forests really came of age in the '60s and '70s.

Things have changed in the deer population, too.  As the secretary for our county sportsman's federation (Cayuga County) I have newspaper clippings from the '60s (mostly a column inch or so high) announcing that, say, an 8 point buck was spotted in such and such township.  A 10 point or higher count got more print space and often a listing of the folks reporting the spotting.  In 1960 the total deer take in the state was 45,000 and our 10-12 year rolling average is now 240,000 or so and that's with a lot fewer hunters.

Although we don't have the soil mineral content to grow really big racks of antlers, 150" class and larger bucks are a lot more common that just a decade or two ago.  In most of the 56 (of 62) counties in the state in which you can hunt deer the current deer management objective is to maintain or reduce the current herd size.  Few of the areas outside the Catskills and Adirondacks have objectives to increase the herd and those areas, like the Adirondacks and Catskills, generally have a lot of mature forest land and not much browse to support deer anyway.

A lot of other states have had similar experiences with reforestation and deer herd growth.  Perhaps the biggest issue facing hunters in much of the country is access to land on there is good deer habitat on which to hunt.   Pubic land that is a monoculture such as mostly mature forest of mostly grassland does not support much in the way of a deer herd and much of the private land is cut up and posted or restricted through leases.

Lance




Offline BUGEYE

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 10:45:54 AM »
In my experience, which is kinda thin, those blacktails are harder to find than whitetails.
I killed a doe blacktail in 1963 near Coos Bay.
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 08:29:21 PM »

Oh no!  Don't do that.  Read this for the reason why:  http://www.snopes.com/critters/farce/ropedeer.asp

That's pretty funny but if I were really to do something, I'd line up a deer feeder with big tree in my yard and bean one with a cat sneeze load out of my .44 mag.

Tony

Offline mannyrock

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2012, 04:28:05 AM »
 
   I live in a semi-rural area, in a subdivision with 3 to 12 acre lots, with a 100 ace farm on my back boundary.  I often get deer and groundhogs sitting in my back yard.
 
   For ground hogs, I open my kitchen door, and shoot my rifle from the kitchen table inside the house.  This way, the whole house acts like a supressor.   Easy kills.
 
   But, I have been really reluctant to shoot a deer.   My neighbor has a swimming pool just 80 yards away on my left, and I have visions of that deer running after the shot and ending up in that swimming pool.   My neighbor is an old lady and pretty understanding of my occasional shooting noise, but I think that having to drag a bleeding dead deer from her pool would be the breaking point.   Calls to the Homeowners Association or even the Police may follow.
 
Mannyrock

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2012, 08:41:12 AM »
I'm not likely to ever try this but every time I find the deer have eaten my garden or damaged my trees, I think about it.  One last year on rubbed the felt off its antlers on the corner of my house ripping up the shingles.

Anyway I figure if I can't get a solid brain shot at 30 feet or less, I'll pass.  Also the shot has to be lined up with the one big tree I have to catch any misses...

I've even thought about putting a pulley up in that tree with lasso on the bottom end of the rope.  The lasso would be around a bucket of feed and I'd just hang the critter with a quick pull of the rope.  Then a baseball bat would finish it off.  This is one of the things that goes through my mind when the deer are ticking me off...

Tony

Offline BBF

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 10:10:08 AM »

  .............
.................................
 
   Now, I think its just too easy.  If you own or lease a piece of property with 40 acres of hardwoods or mixed terrain, in any county where deer hunting with a firearms is legal, then unless you are really really unlucky, or a really really bad hunter, you will get a deer.    Use a tree stand, dress in camo, put out the proper deer lure, use the proper cover scent, and set up within 100 yards of any food source or scrape, and you will get plenty of easy shots.
 
    I only hunt in the afternoons now, because I can't stand the early morning cold................
   My brother has the right to hunt on 1,500 acres of private land that adjoins the Shenandoah National Park.  He and his 5 friends have done this for 30 years.   It is not unusual for them to kill 2 or 3 nice bucks every weekend they hunt.  They have stopped shooting does, because it just means that  they have to go home early.  (They generally wait until closing day to take a doe, just to have some meat.)  Muzzleloading season is really easy for them, because the deer are just wandering around.
 
     Maybe I've been doing this too long?
 
Best, Mannyrock

 
I woulde be very happy to accept an invite. I'll feed myself and find a place to stay and promise, cross my heart, only to shoot Does. ;)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline cudatruck

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2012, 11:20:34 AM »
im real jealous of you guys havin too easy. I live and hunt in california. public land is very difficult to hunt. too many people. private land to hunt is either posted no hunting or private ranch expensive deals that feel like shooting a farm animal. tried pig hunting public land, dirt bikers make that very difficult. best luck we have had is pheasants, ducks and turkeys. big game is very difficult. if you guys would like a challenge come give it a try.

Offline dakotashooter2

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 10:20:27 AM »
My answer to the problem was to get on the ground and hunt them on their own terms. I use a compound bow but no sights or releases. No ground blinds or scent blockers. Though that somewhat backfired. I'm now getting closer to deer than I ever have. Sometimes too close to get off a shot before spooking them..... But thats a good problem to have and makes it far more enjoyable.
Just another worthless opinion!!

Offline Spanky

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 08:42:48 AM »
If I lived in a place where there were no deer I'd move. Hunting isn't hunting if you never see anything... it's just sitting in the woods. ;)
 
 
 
Spanky

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 01:26:39 PM »
If I lived in a place where there were no deer I'd move. Hunting isn't hunting if you never see anything... it's just sitting in the woods. ;)

Spanky

Don't think I haven't considered it but I'm already further away from my grandkids than I want to be.  I'd give up hunting if I had to choose between it and visiting with my grandkids (assuming I could still take them fishing and target shooting.)

Tony

Offline Spanky

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 02:26:06 PM »
If I lived in a place where there were no deer I'd move. Hunting isn't hunting if you never see anything... it's just sitting in the woods. ;)

Spanky

Don't think I haven't considered it but I'm already further away from my grandkids than I want to be. I'd give up hunting if I had to choose between it and visiting with my grandkids (assuming I could still take them fishing and target shooting.)

Tony

 
I'd do the same thing.
 
 
 
Spanky

Offline BBF

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 06:13:44 AM »
I don't have that dilemma. My grandchildren are approx 3000 miles away and mostly grown up and we have little to talk about or have a common interest in.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 12:18:01 PM »
If I lived in a place where there were no deer I'd move. Hunting isn't hunting if you never see anything... it's just sitting in the woods. ;) 
Spanky

I have shot about 50 feral hogs to every 1 deer ay my place since 1989.  "Hog hunting" via Sniping from a Tree Stand is not that much to write home about.  After the first 20 kills, through your first 500, hog killing becomes a meat gathering exercise.  Call it, rural "farming on the hoof", so to speak compared to the passion of awaiting the possibility of seeing a deer and maybe taking aim at a legal FLORIDA buck. 

For me, when the incidence of hogs is great the incidence of deer is diminished.  Even small Sounders of hogs are sufficient to drive the timid deer away from wildlife food plots.

Offline Ladobe

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 05:13:44 AM »

  When was a kid growing up in Virginia in the 1960s, it was a pretty big deal if someone bagged a deer.  They would drive it up and down the block in their pickup truck, stopping by to show it to all of their friends and relatives.
 
   Now, I think its just too easy.  If you own or lease a piece of property with 40 acres of hardwoods or mixed terrain, in any county where deer hunting with a firearms is legal, then unless you are really really unlucky, or a really really bad hunter, you will get a deer.    Use a tree stand, dress in camo, put out the proper deer lure, use the proper cover scent, and set up within 100 yards of any food source or scrape, and you will get plenty of easy shots.
......
Best, Mannyrock

And therein lies a possible answer.   People have forgot what traditional hunting is.   Mostly only us geezers who did spot and stalk stayed with it, stayed with traditional firearms/long bows yet scored with no camo or all the other things they use/do now days to make it far easier.   It was about the meat, but also the challenge of pitting your acquired skills against a worthy opponent.    I grew up in the high Rockies mule deer country, but I'd think it was about the same in whitetail country at one time.   They say there are more whitetails now due to management and their adapability, also making it easier.    Where I grew up there are way less mule deer, also because of management (poor management), where almost all hunting is on public land.  So it can still be a challenge, especially for a mature buck.   
 
Evolution at work. Over two million years ago the genus Homo had small cranial capacity and thick skin to protect them from their environment. One species has evolved into obese cranial fatheads with thin skin in comparison that whines about anything and everything as their shield against their environment. Meus

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 05:18:07 AM »
It'll get harder.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 10:46:43 PM »
I don't have that dilemma. My grandchildren are approx 3000 miles away and mostly grown up and we have little to talk about or have a common interest in.

My twin grandsons are 10 and I'm working on getting them interesting in shooting hunting and fishing and so far it's working.  I was complaining about all the feral cats around my place and one of them said "wouldn't it be funny Grampa if you used one of your cat sneeze loads to shoot a cat?"  This isn't a fishing forum or I'd have plenty more stories...

Oregon has a special hunt for first time hunters from 12 to 16 years old in some prime hunting areas.  I plan to have the boys ready for this but I'm not sure if I'll be up to taking both of them at once.  I figure one will use my 325 Savage .30-30 and the other will probably use the next Handi rifle I get.  I have plenty guns to choose from but not many will fit a 12 year old.

Tony

Offline charles p

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2013, 12:02:55 PM »
I haven't taken a buck in NC in almost 20 years.  My hunting partner once said, let the kids shoot the bucks.  Well it made a lot of sense so now I just take doe deer for the meat.  It makes a difference in the quality of bucks in one year, if you let them walk.

Offline BBF

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 05:01:01 AM »
Geezerbiker:
If any of those plentiful rifles you posses have wooden stocks it would not be difficult to modify one to fit a youngster..........Right?? ;)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: It's gotten too easy.
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 05:21:30 AM »
I hate to cut down a stock only to have to replace it later on when they grow up.  I have a couple Handi rifles and plastic youth butt stocks are cheap enough...

Tony