Author Topic: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC  (Read 993 times)

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Offline RockCreek

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FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« on: December 26, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »
Hello.....Very good looking forum that caught my eye.

Question for someone that may know......

For the past 2-3 years or so, I have been shooting a FA Model 83 45 Colt that belong to a friend of mine. Finest piece of machinery I have held........ Anyway, I want one for myself. I am interested in purchasing a FA Model 83 chambered for the 45 Colt or 45LC (if you prefer).

After my initial inquiry, it is my understanding that I cannot purchase a FA Model 83 chambered exclusively for the 45 Colt. I was informed by a FA preferred dealer that I must first purchase the Model 83 in 454 Casull chambering and then order an extra cylinder for the 45 Colt. This really struck me as odd given the popularity of the 45 Colt round past, present, and no doubt in the future. As readers of this forum no doubt know, the 45 Colt will drive 335 grain bullets over 1200 fps with pressure around 28,000 CUP which is all anyone needs to hunt anything in North America, so I personally really do not want or see the need for the 454 Casull which means I will be spending quite a few extra $$$$$ just to get the cylinder that I actually want on the Model 83.

I obviously do not have any knowledge of FA's business or their manufacturing decisions, but it seems to me like a market does (or would) exist for the Model 83 chambered exclusively for the 45 Colt.

I would be thankful for any comments or suggestions regarding this...

Thanks,
RockCreek

Offline Graybeard

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 05:50:20 PM »
Been that way as long as I've been aware of them. Same with the FA83 in .44 Special so far as I know. Ya gotta get the Magnum cylinder but can order the LC or .44 Special at same time.

I don't recall ever using .45 LC in my .454 Casuall or .44 Special in my .44 magnum.

Unless you are wanting to shoot the long heavy bullets at really heavy load levels you might think about an FA97 instead. I never bothered with really heavy loads or heavy bullets in my FA97.

I can say the FA revolvers are likely the most accurate and finely made revolvers out there. You'll likely never regret the purchase whichever way you go. Call FA and talk to Bob or John and they can explain the company policy and tell ya more than you ever thought you needed to know about FA guns.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline RockCreek

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 03:42:13 AM »
Graybeard, along with some other stuff, I shoot a lot of Cast Performance .452's in 265 Gr. WFNGC and 335 Gr. WLNGC in my 45 Colts. This is with anywhere from 19-23 gr. of H-110.
 
In a nutshell, this is the problem for me since I wanted to be able to shoot the longer 335's in a FA revolver which looks like it would have to be a M83 on order to do this. And, I do not think I could sell the 454 Casull cylinder if I bought a M83 with an extra Colt 45 cylinder since each cylinder is fitted for each individual revolver, so I would be stuck with a cylinder I paid for and will not use.
 
You know far more about FA revolvers and the market for them than do I. I think you even talk with Bob Baker from time to time. Do you not think that there exists a sizeable market for a FA M83 chambered exclusively for the Colt 45? Most of my handgunning friends have Colt 45's and this seems to be their round of choice. I believe Freedom Arms would get more orders for this chambering in a M83 than they could fill.
 
While it is a heavy load, I do not consider 23 Gr. of H-110 with a 335 Gr. Cast Performance bullet to be a "stiff" load as it is in the neighborhood of 27,000 CUP around 1200 fps through my chrony.  This is well under the CUP generated by a 454 Casull with a heavy load and nowhere near the CUP generated by a Casull with a "stiff" load. The 45 Colt with a Cast Performance 335 Gr. WLNGC at 1200fps will shoot through anything walking this North American continent, so I really do not see the need for 1300+ fps.
 
I sure would like to have FA M83 chambered for a 45 Colt. One of my friends has a M83 Casull with the extra Colt 45 cylinder. I have put a lot of ammo through his M83 with the Colt 45 cylinder. That thing is such a pleasure to shoot. Points well, built like a tank, looks great, and super accurate, not the mention how sweet the action works.
 
If Marshall Dillon had carried a M83 45 Colt in a 7.5" barrel, all the bad guys would have cut a wider path around Dodge City.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 08:01:03 AM »
Yes with the loads you want to shoot you will need the FA83. I have spoken with Bob lots of times and met him at the last handgun hunt at White Oak lodge here in Bama. He also came to my house and we went up to my range and shot some of the new guns FA was coming out with at that time.

I honestly don't think you are going to talk them into an FA83 in .45 LC only. You can call and speak with Bob or John and they can explain it to you but I don't think they've ever done it for anyone. These days most everyone seems to want the big magnums so I don't know how well it would sell chambered only that way.

Now one option available to you is to just get it with a .454 cylinder and since you don't want to shoot that round at all just use it as a .45LC gun only and you'll be find. However if you ever want to sell it you should notify the potential buyer what you have done with it as it might not then be suitable for .454 Casull ammo. If I wanted to shoot .45 Colt in an FA83 I'd just get both cylinders. For the kinda .45 loads I use tho I prefer the FA97 but that's just me.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline HGunner

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 12:54:38 PM »
Hi RockCreek,


I hope you can talk them into a 45 Colt only FA 83 because I think it's a great idea.  However,  I have a 454 only FA 83 and it's pretty awesome just the way it is.  It loves the Cast Performance 335 grain WLNGC and is extremely accurate loaded to 1200 fps with IMR-4227.  This 454 revolver with that bullet has produced the best revolver groups at 50 yards that I have ever shot.  Honestly, the only annoyance with the 454 is that it takes small rifle primers and I don't use them for anything else.


Good luck in your quest,
HGunner

Offline RockCreek

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 03:53:20 PM »
Graybeard and HGunner,
 
It was good hearing your thoughts. I appreciate your time.........
 
As Graybeard noted, most people these days seem to favor the big bore magnums. As far as the initial purchase, there is zero doubt in my mind the the 454 Casulls, 475 Linebaughs, and the various 50's garner more interest and draw more firearm sales than would a 45 Colt, especially to first time buyers of a large bore revolver. Not everyone knows and understands big bore handguns to the extent that most of the readers of this forum do. For a lot of folks, their first revolver purchase bigger than their 9mm pistol or 38 Special revolver is a 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 500 Wyoming Express or such. While in Cabelas recently, I was simply astonished at the number of kids in their early 20's that were there looking at and handling a couple of long-barreled S & W 460 Magnums. Monsterous looking firearm.....That was their focal point, nothing else.............After handling and shooting their newly acquired beast for a spell, a new understanding and thinking begins to enter their brains. For many experienced, knowledgable handgunners, the rounds from a 357 Mag to a 45 Colt is all they would consider. There are also a good many experienced, knowledgable handgunners that just want cartridges from 454 Casull and up and they know how to safely load and handle them. And there are those amongst us that rightfully so love a 44 Special as I do a 45 Colt. A good 44 Special is a genuine pleasure to own and shoot.
 
I know and understand that I could purchase a M83 chambered exclusively for a 454 Casull, load it down a tad, and BINGO, I have 45 Colt ballistics. But, since the 454 Casull is approximately .100" greater in case length (depending on what length you trim it) than the 45 Colt, then I am dealing with a higher volume case, which means I must use more powder to get 45 Colt velocities than I would use with a true 45 Colt round. And, as you guys no doubt know, one has to be very careful when reducing a 454 Casull load. This can be safely done only to a point or bad things can happen, especially with the slower powders such as H-110. These big bore cartridges work best when they are loaded with heavy bullets to a full load with slower powders such as H-110 or Win 296. Not a "heavy load" or a "stiff load", but a normal pressure full load. These heavy bullets are the ticket as they allow the slower powders such as H-110 to do what they do best which is to come up to their operating pressure progressively and safely. Which means, for many reasons (safety certainly not the least), I would rather load a 45 Colt to full, normal pressures with a heavy bullet (300-335 Gr.) to get 1100-1200 fps than I would load a 454 Casull "down" to get 1100-1200 fps.
 
As Graybeard said, I honestly do not think FA will change company policy just for me and offer a M83 in 45 Colt chambering exclusively. But I do believe there exists a market out there waiting for this longer bullet 45 Colt revolver, especially in this fine M83.
 
As I noted in an earlier post, I have shot my buddy's M83 with his 45 Colt cylinder with a 7½" barrel. This revolver just has that "feel." Anyone that has held some of the many 45 pistols current being made and then holds a 1911 Colt Gold Cup 45 knows what I am talking about when I say "that feel." Same thing with most of the revolvers out there and then holding a M83....."that feel." There is definitely something special about that angle that the grip frame comes down on the M83. Without any doubt, no matter which way you examine it, this is the finest 45 Colt handgun I have ever fired.  I am now 60 years old. I have been hunting and shooting since I was five years old when my grandfather first let me shoot his Winchester M-67 single-shot 22 rimfire.
 
Sure would like to have a 7½" M83 in a 45 Colt.......
 
RockCreek

Offline gcrank1

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 08:26:43 AM »
Certainly not questioning your experience and preference, but IMHO the idea of downloading the 454 brass to 45C ballistics is no problem, no worries. You are reloading anyway, not shooting factory loads, and if some 45C ammo comes around it may shoot surprisingly well too. I sure wouldnt let the 'expense' of a few more grains of powder keep me from doing it.
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Offline ole 5 hole group

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Re: FA Model 83 chambered for 45 LC
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 09:21:35 AM »
RockCreek,  You'll have no problems downloading that 454 to the velocity you want from a 45 Colt with any bullet you choose - you may want to use a different powder, but maybe not.
 
There are guys purchasing 5-shot 45 Colt revolvers who want to run at 454 velocities & pressures but don't want to run a 454, so different strokes for different folks.  I have the BFR 454 and run cut down 460 brass in it at over the top 45 Colt velocities as well as 454 top end velocities and I also run powder-puff loads as well.  The large pistol primer has held up very well to the high pressures in my revolver.
 
As Graybeard suggested - you might want to look at the FA97 in 45 Colt, as that puppy will handle bullets from 240 to 335 grain at the velocities you're looking for, as 21.0 grains of H-110 with a 335 grain beartooth cast flies at 1,125fps with a 4.25" barrel and groups well in my FA97.  You can speed it up a bit if you like but with that light weight revolver, you'll feel the difference.  Now with that heavyweight FA83, you can push another 200/300fps with about the same felt recoil, if you have the desire.