Author Topic: fiscal cliff  (Read 1809 times)

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Offline Mike in Virginia

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fiscal cliff
« on: December 27, 2012, 01:15:11 PM »
If the cliff is not avoided, whose fault is it?  Is it Obama's for wanting what's unreasonable?  Is it the Republicans who want to see Obama fail?  Is it all about political power with no regard for the people?  What is  your opinion as to a resolution? 

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 01:27:56 PM »
I hate to show my ignorance here, but just exactly what is this fiscal cliff?
Richard
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Offline KIMBER45

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 02:00:14 PM »
I think it's a power thing, and both sides are to blame. What inept and shameful lack of leadership .
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
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Offline Anna

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 02:22:17 PM »
What leadership ? All we have now is a three ring circus where all the clowns are trying to become
the head BOZO !

Offline The Hermit

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 05:30:35 PM »
Although it would benefit the average person, it's not in the government's interest to solve the issue. Face it, how many years have they had to fix the legislation? This administration is commited to divide and conquer in order to consolidate total control in the name of socialism. With a trillion dollar shortfall and a looming debt ceiling, Obama needs all the taxes he can muster.
But don't forget that this shortfall does not include all the UNFUNDED liabilities of medicare, medicaid, social security, bailouts, government pensions, the PBGC's huge liability, fannie mae, freddy mac, etc. etc.
In due time there will be a huge devaluation in the form of runaway inflation, at which time the government will introduce your new currency, which is already printed and stored in warehouses. In order to shove this up your,  ahhh   ear, ya ear, they will need you unarmed, stamped with a 666 on your forehead, and lead by the nose.
 
   The Hermit
 

Offline magooch

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 04:19:03 AM »
It should be obvious that the Republican controlled House is the only part of the federal government that is trying to be responsible and have passed a budget.  Obama has this obsession with raising taxes on successful people and is determined to punish them.  If it would make a significant difference in the deficit, or debt, it might be a reasonable argument, but it would not make even a minor blip in fiscal sanity.  Instead, it is more likely to cause an even further decline in the economy as the producers pull back and try to keep their enterprises from going down the rat hole that the regime has created.


I don't like the way that the Speaker has been dealing with the administration, because I don't think it is his exclusive responsibility to come up with a deal.  The same way it is not Harry Reid's job to do the president's bidding. 


Obama needs to get his head out of his communist butt and stop playing his divisive, liberal, ideological political game.
Swingem

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 04:42:46 AM »
I still don't know what the fiscal cliff is!   :-\   Can anyone define it?  What is the importance of the date?   ???
Richard
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 05:02:57 AM »
I hate to show my ignorance here, but just exactly what is this fiscal cliff?

 
Well it is many things , In general it is a set time ( line in the sand) that if allowed to pass will cause automatic restraints on spending that could effect how our military and govt. function. It will also cause American's to pay more taxes. That is a very brief description.
  In reality it is proof of poor spending pratices of both parties going back years maybe to WW-2 or beyond. It is proof of how the tax payers have been abused being forced to pay for useless projects and aid to bribe other nations to play along with us. You might say the caper is up ! The interesting part is to note who wants to conyinue the game . Who wants to sacrifice part of the tax payers to smooze over the others. In reality it's time to bite the bullet and get the mess stright . Time to reign in the out of control and replace them with responsible repsentives.
one thing is true once you hit rock botton the only way is up !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 05:51:23 AM »
This imaginary fiscal cliff, is just that. It is an imaginary point thought up by a Democrat or Republican, that will eventually be reached REGARDLESS of what the two parties do, or don't, do. They are both in the hog farming business, and HABITUALLY ATTACH PORK to any bill that leaves Congress, and goes to the President, via the Senate. Hurricane Katrina was but one of thousands of examples.
Vote for the Katrina RELIEF BILL, with millions of dollars of pork attached, that had NOTHING TO DO WITH KATRINA, or vote against the KATRINA RELIEF BILL. Everyone needs to get their heads out of their butts, and realize this is not about America. This is about REPUBLICAN VS DEMOCRAT. None of them with the possible exception of the T-Party Congressional members would dream of taking a bullet for America. But they will for their party.
Keep voting Democrat or Republican, and keep getting what you have. Do not expect change in D.C. until most of you CHANGE what you do "COLLECTIVELY" at the voting booth.
 
I have a brother in law, that is signed up for "farm subsidies", and also has his wife signed up for FARM SUBSIDIES. She doesn't farm. Hell she rarely cooks, and brags about it. They live like royalty, and constantly "roar about government spending". But they take that government money. You know. That TAX MONEY, called Subsidies? What hypocrites!
You want another example? How about the UAW. "MEMBERS" want the economy CLEANED UP! "MEMBERS" want the government CLEANED UP! But hey! Don't take my extraordinarily high wages, and benefits, compared to the rest of the country away. KEEP THAT GOVERNMENT MONEY COMIN! WE NEED IT! Once again. What hypocrites!
Farmers SAY they don't like Obama. But they take the money. Union MEMBERS say they don't like Obama. But they take the money.
And that's just the tip of the governmental iceberg, that BUYS VOTES with YOUR MONEY.
YOU WANT CHANGE? SO CHANGE!
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline jjas

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 08:52:50 AM »
If the cliff is not avoided, whose fault is it?  Is it Obama's for wanting what's unreasonable?  Is it the Republicans who want to see Obama fail?  Is it all about political power with no regard for the people?  What is  your opinion as to a resolution?

Obama wants a 4% tax increase on people making more than $250,000 per year.  The Republicans want "meaningful cuts" in entitlements.
The reality is neither party wants to give an inch (as they might look weak and it will effect their bid for re-election).
So one of two things will happen.....
1.   We all will be paying higher taxes on January 1st....and both parties will point their fingers @ each other.
2.   Or there will be another "last minute short-term deal" that kicks all of these problems down the road.........and both parties will point their fingers @ each other.
Either way.....it's ridiculous......but what is even more ridiculous is that in two years, the vast majority of these clowns will be re-elected, by US.....again...... ::)
So ultimately whose fault is it?
 
And Dee makes a good point.  Everyone complains about the other guys "government cheese" but thinks theirs is OK..... :o
 
 

Offline D Fischer

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 10:56:49 AM »
I don't think it's a problem anymore. I read where O'Bummer gave raise's to a bunch of high profile government employee's. Did it by executive order.

Offline ultramag44

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 12:01:44 PM »
We need to stand firm and not give in on this thing!  Let this so-called fiscal cliff  be gone over, let the heavens fall.  What are ya gonna do, not get up and go to work on the 2nd?

The low-information, 1-issue, free (to them)  bama-phone using freeloaders, uber lefties, bleeding hearts and so-called intelectuals put this government into power.

Power being the operative word.  There is a power struggle going on and we can only let our representatives know how we feel.

Let the country go over the  fiscal cliff I say!   Let the crude cuts to EVERYTHING take effect. Force the government to live like so many families do. Yes, there will be recession, strife and pain. Make the entire country take the pain w/o any aspirin. Perhaps that will be the wake up call to make the sheeple realize they traded their liberty and self sufficiency for Japanese-made cars, social security benefits to people who have never worked or paid into the system and people who stand in front of you in line @ the grocery store with food stamps  while yamaring away on a smart phone in their $100.00 jeans.
                                                                     

Default on our loans to the chicoms. Just show them our middle finger and say, "You know what? We're not gonna pay you another penny in interest. Take the principle and be happy, or you can just Suck It!" Our credit rating will go down? La-de-da! We have been going it alone for so long, who cares?

Then after all that, once the people wake up, maybe, I say maybe we can rebuild by embracing the past!  You get things (homes, a college education, cars, cell phones, etc)n by earning them, NOT on the backs of the taxpayers. Charity is private or done through churches, NOT taken by force of law from one and handed to another. And the biggest lesson,a  fair is a thing that happens once a year in a big field @ the edge of town, it's NOT part of political dialog.
I don't need to fight to prove I'm right, I don't need to be forgiven, no, no, no (from the song ‘Baba O'Riley’ by The Who)

Offline jimster

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 12:46:52 PM »
If the cliff is not avoided, whose fault is it?  Is it Obama's for wanting what's unreasonable?  Is it the Republicans who want to see Obama fail?  Is it all about political power with no regard for the people?  What is  your opinion as to a resolution? 
Well, one question at a time I guess..If the cliff is not avoided who's fault is it? Our fault. We elected people who can't govern or do the jobs the constitution requires. They knew this was coming a couple years ago. Is Obama wanting what is unreasonable? Well, ya...he hasn't passed a budget in three years, he wants to raise the debt and keep spending what we don't have and only tax, which of course won't do anything but get us deeper, he's not willing to give an inch on anything or fix the problem. Is it the Republicans who want to see Obama fail? He already failed. Miserably. And yes...the reps don't like his way of negotiating...which is basically my way or the highway.  Is it all about power? Well yes...and it's worse that that, you now have the dems claiming the reps will let our taxes go up...when the dems wrote the legislation so it would do just that. This is actually a joke..and to be blunt, from the president on down is a joke.
I pesonally don't want Obama's and the Dems screwy fake deals....I say let what the dems wrote in the legislation go
 
 

Offline hillbill

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 12:56:12 PM »
What leadership ? All we have now is a three ring circus where all the clowns are trying to become
the head BOZO !

aint that the durn truth?we are being ruled by a bunch of freaks that look like the star wars bar scene.

Offline hillbill

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 01:15:20 PM »
i watched a press conference this eve where obama was talking about how nothing gets done in washington and we the people are getting pissed about it.he was right. he is a very good speaker, its hard for me to watch him but i finally could get thru a few minutes without urrrrping.he blamed everyone but himself and his arrogance was totally amazeing.he went on like he really has nothing to do with running this country and none of it is his fault.its all congress and senate cuz they wont agree with him.
 
but i did realize something, he is a good speaker and very believable , if you are dumb enuf to believe what comes out of his mouth without question then you would probably vote for him.apparently a lot of people are dumb enuf.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2012, 01:33:33 PM »
I still don't know what the fiscal cliff is!   :-\   Can anyone define it?  What is the importance of the date?   ???

It's a Republican sponsored set of tax hikes and spending cuts that were so drastic they used it to try and force the Democrats to agree with them on other issues. To make it short and bitter, it's everything the Republicans have asked for for 4 years, plus the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. The Republicans wanted to keep the tax cuts, so they tied them time-wise to an austerity program for America. Everywhere austerity has been implemented in Europe, the economy got worse.

The Dems are going to allow it to happen, then introduce a bill to lower taxes ONLY for the 98% in January, which the Republicans will HAVE to sign, since it lowers taxes. Then they'll let everything else go to hell in a handbag and use those spending cuts to get rid of more Republicans in the interim election in two years. Meanwhile, it'll get really tough for the working poor and people on fixed incomes, and the military. The Republicans have backed themselves into another corner, basically. They have zero leverage but won't acknowledge it.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

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Offline jimster

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2012, 02:14:15 PM »
Quote
It's a Republican sponsored set of tax hikes and spending cuts that were so
drastic they used it to try and force the Democrats to agree with them on other
issues.

LOL!!!
Now that's funny...The Dems held both the house and the Senate when all this legislation was put together way back when. Reps could not force the dems to do anything for a helliva long time.
Maybe you should call up your dems and ask them to just WRITE some legislation right now to make it all better...LOL!! Fact is they could keep my taxes from going up tomorrow with new legislation if they wanted...they don't want to. But throw together 2500 pages of crap called Obama care...bam...no problem.  ;) Hey we are talking one paragraph here...no reps would stand in their way either. 
Neither the dems or reps are cabable of running this country...and fact is the dems had it all...house, senate, and white house, and could not pass a budget of any kind...they spent us into a hole.  They had the house and senate under Bush as well....The dems have their signatures on all your problems. Tax hikes included.  The reps are worthless yes...but with no reps at all...you'd be in the same place...matter of fact, you had plenty of time without the reps in your way.  Those are the facts...

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2012, 04:50:58 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_fiscal_cliff

Calling BS on those "facts."  It was done last year, by the Republican congress. It DID involve the Dems helping kick the can farther down the road, but that was due to the whole debt ceiling debacle.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2012, 05:06:53 PM »
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline jimster

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 02:03:47 AM »
No matter how you cut it...the dems could pass legislation in one day to keep my taxes from going up, they don't want to, they don't want to cut spending, they don't want a budget, they don't want to scale back government...or they would.  As worthless as the reps are, they would not stand in the way of dems writing some fast legislation to keep our taxes from going up...everyone knows it. The dems have had it all, they has the house and the senate under Bush, they had that plus the white house after Bush...no reps in the way at all...and this is what you got. Pure politics...with no leadership at all from Obama, who has not control over his congress, or anything else. Their idea of a budget is raise the debt, keep up the level of spending, and tax who ever is left.  I have to say as an average person my brain pan is bigger than theirs, I at least can figure out they can't sustain this type of spending and the size and scope of government. They all failed us broke our country...and all people can do is point at parties.  I have no idea how there can even be reps or dems anymore...there should just be rebels at this point to kick them all out.
I guess the problem of being independent of the two parties is they all look stupid and worthless to me...I have no ties to any of them, I have been making my own way through life with no help from any of them.

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 02:45:30 AM »
Quote from: Nancy Pelosi, Democrat, Speaker of the House of Representatives of the United States of America
“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it.”

Nothing sums up Democrats and their grab for Power than that.

Offline blind ear

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 02:51:26 AM »
I hate to show my ignorance here, but just exactly what is this fiscal cliff?
-
Looks like it just comes down to a threat to "shut down the government" if they don't do something that isn't "the best action that should be taken" so that they can keep doing what they want to just like they do every time a new budget is due. That's just my view. I don't examine it too closely because "our", the citizens, desires are supposed to be presented by "our" elected officials. It ain't happening. ear
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An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
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everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
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Offline jimster

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 03:23:06 AM »
Quote
Looks like it just comes down to a threat to "shut down the government" if they don't do something that isn't "the best action that should be taken" so that they can keep doing what they want to just like they do every time a new budget is due.
Gee, somehow the threat to shutting down government doesn't scare me so much. I would imagine I would not miss a beat since I have tried to stay clear of them for so long anyway. Last time it happened, my world went on without a beat, only to find out all the fed employees did not miss a paycheck either, they just had some paid vacation.
Quote
“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what’s in it.”
You would have thought any democrat with any brains would have jumped out of the dem party and walked away with just those stupid idiotic words...instead the dems embrace that kind thing...they are dug in deeper than ticks I guess...they ain't walkin away. They reelect those idiots. Talk about small brain pans.

Offline tom548

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 04:00:21 AM »
They are all a bunch of 1/2 wits trying to steal as much as they can from us.  There should be a law that requires a budget by a certain deadline and if not passed by that date they should all be docked their wages until a reasonable budget gets passed as they were not doing their jobs. The wages would not be returned to them. All the pork hidden in bills should also be not allowed. This is fine mess we are in!!!!

Offline magooch

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 04:30:01 AM »
It is democracy following its natural course.  Remember the part about "once the masses figure out they can vote people into office who will hand out goodies, it all goes down the chute?"  It has been going that way for decades, but the Dumycrats put it on steroids with Obamacare and the feckless stimulus.  Because they don't know the difference between scratching your butt and tearing a hole in it.  And apparently they are very poor with math.
Swingem

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 05:03:31 AM »
SOMEBODY'S taxes are going to go up. We got a couple of wars to pay for. Now, the people who make 95% of all the money can have higher taxes, the 98% who make the other 5% of all the money can have higher taxes, or everybody can have higher taxes. Those are your only three choices. The Republicans want the 98% to take a bigger percentage hit on their income to pay down that debt which means it will NEVER get paid down; meanwhile the rich get richer. "Do the arithmetic."
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline ultramag44

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 05:35:08 AM »
See my full post, # 11, I said:
Default on our loans to the ChiComs. Just show them our middle finger and say, "You know what? We're not gonna pay you another penny in interest. Take the principle and be happy, or you can just Suck It!" Our credit rating will go down? La-de-da! Guess what, we have not been leading for a long time (despite what the administration says / thinks). We have been going it alone for so long, who cares?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
 Why stick the next 3 generations with debt THEY didn't incur?  Just default, shrub it off and go on, we can bear the shame.  The sun will rise the next day.  Force the government to live within its means AND reduce those means to sane levels.  Now, the 47%'ers may have to work for a living (just like you & me), but that's what they need to start doing.
I don't need to fight to prove I'm right, I don't need to be forgiven, no, no, no (from the song ‘Baba O'Riley’ by The Who)

Offline jimster

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 06:37:01 AM »
SOMEBODY'S taxes are going to go up. We got a couple of wars to pay for. Now, the people who make 95% of all the money can have higher taxes, the 98% who make the other 5% of all the money can have higher taxes, or everybody can have higher taxes. Those are your only three choices. The Republicans want the 98% to take a bigger percentage hit on their income to pay down that debt which means it will NEVER get paid down; meanwhile the rich get richer. "Do the arithmetic."
OK, I did the arithmetic...there isn't enough wealth in the country to even make a dent in the interest if you took it all, let alone tax it more...
Now what Mr. Wizard?
Do you know what 17 trillion means?  I realize some astronomers do....but I don't think you get it.  Taxes won't do squat, that's just symbolism over substance.  In order to fix this mess all spending in all directions must be slashed drastically, and that too much substance for the lefties to swallow. 

Offline Anna

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 06:58:46 AM »
Obama could care less about this, it doesn't fit in with the grand plan anyway. If fact the sooner the better as far as he is concerned. No NWO, China would not be building up a massive milllitary unless she wanted to be the last one standing. A collapse of one major super power has already happened,
what makes us think we are immune to that happening here also? China has taken steps in both her
economy and social structure to prevent what has been seen happening with us. And did happen to
Russia. So what if the dollar colapses, Obama like Putin is still in charge and will do as he pleases.

His upcoming massive cuts in the milllitary are just another sign, the USSR did the very same thing
right before it fell and after a long and expensive war in Afghanistan.History has a funny way of repeating itself, and what we are seeing are the very same things that were in effect right before the
USSR fell. How long has Putin been in charge now in Russia ? Who over there continues to win in
rigged elections ? And how many times did Obama go see Putin during the beginning of his first
term ? Seeking out a little advise for what he knows is coming ? Looks like it to me, Obama didn't
fare as well in his trips to China. In fact they wanted to throw him off the Great Wall !

Doesn't look like a real chummy NWO to me, in fact it looks like we are about to see another fall
of a once great super power. Falling into a coalition of Balkinized country's that were once considered
states, all answering to a centralized government that grew beyond its capabilitys to sustaine itself.
Splitting up in order to defend themselves as every man for himself when the big dog throws them
all under the bus. Allowing that dog to regroup and come at them at a future point in time by taking
back by force all those who didn't prepare for that to happen.



Offline ultramag44

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Re: fiscal cliff
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2012, 12:21:20 PM »

OK, I did the arithmetic...there isn't enough wealth in the country to even make a dent in the interest if you took it all, let alone tax it more...

Do you know what 17 trillion means?   Taxes won't do squat, that's just symbolism over substance.  In order to fix this mess all spending in all directions must be slashed drastically, and that too much substance for the lefties to swallow. 

Exactly!  Even if you confiscated, not taxed the assets of all the millionares & billionares, the government could run for 11 days, that's it!   All Obama's talk about the rich paying their 'fair share' is smoke & mirrors!  That tax increase on the rich won't change anything.  The media (who lives in Obama's watch pocket) refuses to ask or bring up this point.  It's just class envy, and pandering to the low-information, in-bred, 47%'ers.

We need to simply default!  Offer the principle only and tell them to take the princiiple and be happy, or we won't even pay the principle.  What are they going to do, start a war over it?  I think not, let then grouse, piss & moan.
 
I don't need to fight to prove I'm right, I don't need to be forgiven, no, no, no (from the song ‘Baba O'Riley’ by The Who)