pistol grip (only) shotgun ? (is it )

[SHOOTALL]

Looking at dicussion on the internet can be a mix of truth and lies. I found such a site on the pistol grip shotgun. There was a posting of a reply letter from the ATF in which it ansewerd a question from a guy who if legal wants to build/customise pistol grip "shotguns" . He wants to make them in this case with mossberg recivers and pistol grip but with shorter than 18 inch bbls. His question in effect was if he maintains the longer than 26 inch OAL length would the gun be legal to own ? It seems he hit upon the idea because the pistol grip takes away the shotgun desination. As a shotgun is a shoulder fired weapon. Some offered that then it would be a destructive device or other weapon both requireing a transfeer stamp. It seems with regard to the mossberg 500 manf. and sold with the pistol grip and not having a rifled bbl. it is considered a pistol. As long as it is not less that 26 inchs in length it is legal.
 Now I have no idea as to the truth of these post but there were several in different fourms and by different posters with opinions all over the board. It woulkd be an interesting topic to open here . My intrest is I have always like the gun as a home defense gun or a light walking gun in areas where there was an outside chance of needing a gun for SD. BUT if in fact they can be declared a pistol the I can't think of a better gun to stop hijacking of vehicles. In Va. one can carry a handgun in the vehicle but in many places not a loaded long gun. This new definition of the pistol grip gun that uses shotgun ammo might be a game changer .
 Anyone have knowlege as to the truth or opinions ?

[SharonAnne]

Shootall, I would not rely on anything on the web for definitive information. If I had the interest you specified I would want an answer on ATFE letterhead signed by some big mucky-muck.

[SHOOTALL]

I agree , I was wondering if anyone else had heard of such ? It really sounds to easy a loop hole to be true.

[Lloyd Smale]

my take on it would be no. I shotgun cant under any circumstances have a barrel less then 18 inch or be under 26 in overall lenght. You can get a tax stamp in some states for a shorter barrel but a shotgun cannot be registered in anyway as a handgun unless it started as a handgun.

Looking at dicussion on the internet can be a mix of truth and lies. I found such a site on the pistol grip shotgun. There was a posting of a reply letter from the ATF in which it ansewerd a question from a guy who if legal wants to build/customise pistol grip "shotguns" . He wants to make them in this case with mossberg recivers and pistol grip but with shorter than 18 inch bbls. His question in effect was if he maintains the longer than 26 inch OAL length would the gun be legal to own ? It seems he hit upon the idea because the pistol grip takes away the shotgun desination. As a shotgun is a shoulder fired weapon. Some offered that then it would be a destructive device or other weapon both requireing a transfeer stamp. It seems with regard to the mossberg 500 manf. and sold with the pistol grip and not having a rifled bbl. it is considered a pistol. As long as it is not less that 26 inchs in length it is legal.
 Now I have no idea as to the truth of these post but there were several in different fourms and by different posters with opinions all over the board. It woulkd be an interesting topic to open here . My intrest is I have always like the gun as a home defense gun or a light walking gun in areas where there was an outside chance of needing a gun for SD. BUT if in fact they can be declared a pistol the I can't think of a better gun to stop hijacking of vehicles. In Va. one can carry a handgun in the vehicle but in many places not a loaded long gun. This new definition of the pistol grip gun that uses shotgun ammo might be a game changer .
 Anyone have knowlege as to the truth or opinions ?

[SHOOTALL]

That was my thought but with the pistol grip it was stated that it is no longer a shotgun as it is no longer a weapon fired from the shoulder. it could have a shorter than 18 inch bbl but not an OAL of less than 26 inches ( that raised ?? for me if it's not a long gun then why 26 inches ? ) . I will try to find the post of the "offical" ATFE letter .

[S.S.]

Just remember ----10 years or $10,000 fine or both ---- A heck of a punishment for a few inches difference!

[SHOOTALL]

no thanks

[PAHUnter04]

Remember different states, different laws.... NJ, CA, CN, NY... they change at will.

[SharonAnne]

mossberg does sell a pistol grip shotgun with an 18" barrel and a total length over 26". There is nothing in the legal definition of "shotgun" that it be fired from the shoulder.

just check the mossberg web page

[45-70.gov]

give the ATF  $200 and do what you want


a smooth bore...NEVER  BEEN BIULT WITH A STOCK... can be registered as  AOW....$5


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html

[Chupathingy]

A shotgun can neither be less than 26" or have a barrel shorter than 18". A shotgun having a pistol grip ONLY and having no other shoulder able stock is neither classified as a long gun or a handgun, it is classified as an "OTHER" and is listed as such in the "Type of firearm" section on the form 4473.


Chupa

[Lloyd Smale]

not in michigan

give the ATF  $200 and do what you want


a smooth bore...NEVER  BEEN BIULT WITH A STOCK... can be registered as  AOW....$5


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html

[Bugflipper]

The pistol argument would have a little more teeth if it had a factory rifled barrel. Taurus tried to come out with a 28 ga revolver and last I heard the feds stopped them dead in the water. Not only do barrel length and overall length apply, but the gauge part also makes it a shotgun. Any time I do anything I write the local ATF. They will get back to you eventually. If they have a problem with something you have, then you have it in writing that they approved it. May take it away but at least they wonat take you away. You really can't very well say, well I read it on the internet and other folks were doing it or said it was legal.
That's like the contender. For years on here folks would claim it was legal to switch out a pistol barrel to a rifle receiver and back. It's only legal to switch a rifle barrel onto a pistol receiver, then you can't legally go back to a pistol barrel on it. But 99% of the people would tell you that you could switch them at will because that's how the gun was designed or NFA rules didn't apply to a single shot.
Bottom line you chop a barrel down under 18" without a stamp on something with a gauge behind a number, without a tax stamp that's an invitation to trouble if you don't have a letter from your local ATF saying it's okay.

[pastorp]

That's why TC 45/410 barrels were rifled. In the shorter than 18" form it would be illegal as a smooth bore. So they were rifled and had removable chokes.

[SHOOTALL]

and a center fire barrel can't be over .50 cal.

[45-70.gov]

and a center fire barrel can't be over .50 cal.

thats ''rifled'' barrel....over 50 is a destructive device


12 ga... other sporting shotguns exempted...as  is 577 t-rex

[SHOOTALL]

and a center fire barrel can't be over .50 cal.

thats ''rifled'' barrel....over 50 is a destructive device


12 ga... other sporting shotguns exempted...as  is 577 t-rex

yes I was talking rifled , thanks for keeping me straight  Shotguns I believe can't be over 10 ga. unless for industrial use like the ones used to clean blades in pulp plants

[mechanic]

Here 'ya go.

A shotgun must have a barrel at least 18", an overall of 26", and only one of either the stock and or barrel can be altered.  If the barrel is shortened to 18", and the stock is cut, it's requires a stamp.

Ben

Forgot the link:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

[mechanic]

Here is another link:

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

[45-70.gov]

Here 'ya go.

A shotgun must have a barrel at least 18", an overall of 26", and only one of either the stock and or barrel can be altered.  If the barrel is shortened to 18", and the stock is cut, it's requires a stamp.

Ben

Forgot the link:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html

this part is new to me....cna you find where thise is writen
i looked in your links but missed it....thanx
''and only one of either the stock and or barrel can be altered.  If the barrel is shortened to 18", and the stock is cut, it's requires a stamp.''

[mechanic]

45-70,

I will look further tomorrow, tired tonight but I feel confident I read this somewhere in all this legal mumbo jumbo today.

Here is a reference to it.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/identification-of-nfa-firearms.html

Characteristics

Overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. Both stock and barrel altered.

Rate of Transfer Tax
$200.00

Ben

[SHOOTALL]

the one I posted about  to is the rem 870 , 18 inch bbl and OL over 26 inches. It is quite handy .