Completely un-helpful Fiscal Cliff thought of the day

[Land_Owner]

For years we have been told that, in their entirety, the Bush income tax cuts were a giant give away to the rich.

We are now told that if they expire, in their entirety, that it will be a crushing blow to the middle-class.

I guess there is some world where those are both true, but the choice of framing in both cases, particularly taken together, is impressively disingenuous.

[SHOOTALL]

Due to poor management the middle class will be crushed ! The ? is can the wealfare class be spared which will now contain ex middle class ? Think about it 
 The rich won't really care .

[Dand]

So how much will the middle class taxes increase TM7?  Do you have a number? We know for a fact that starting January, each working person will have their tax go up $63 in 2013 to fund Obama Care; there is supposed smaller charges in each of the 2 subsequent years. I forget how many billions this is supposed to raise.  But it makes me think, that given the huge deficit, we all need to kick in a bit more taxes, maybe scaled to income levels.  In my mind that might mean a $40K income could be hit for maybe $100 extra (assuming the Bush tax cuts stay in force) while someone making $100K might should pay $300 (or so) more and on up the income scale.  That way we'd all be contributing something and might also keep a closer watch on how it gets spent.  AND I strongly support significant cuts to Govt Spending.  Balance balance.  I wrote my senator today asking for more concrete action and less yammer about how we need a bipartisan cooperation.  I want to see my DC delegates actually putting forward ideas that might work.  And working to a solution. DO SOMETHING beside yak yak.

[BBF]

Whatever and however that will come all out won't change the fact that spending is going up, deficit reduction won't happen and the debt ceiling gets raised.

[Ranger99]

if you give a kid a sack of candy
every week with the admonishment
to make the sack of candy last until
next week, you know the outcome of
that and they dang sure won't accept
any less of a sack of candy.


the kids we sent to washington
aren't any different.

[coyotejoe]

The "fiscal cliff" is small potatoes. If congress were to get serious about balancing the budget it would require tax increases and spending cuts far more serious than those imposed by the fiscal cliff, especially on the spending end. Before the election Obama was promising 1.4 Trillion in spending cuts, now he's saying one trillion even. But it doesn't matter because what the politicians call "spending cuts" don't actually reduce spending at all but only  reduce the projected rate of increase. In other words "we are going to spend more than ever before but less than we would like to spend so we will call that a spending cut". I think the fiscal cliff is the best we can hope for. Any "deal" they come up with will just be more of the same, they will raise taxes but spend even more than they raise and the deficit will be 1.5 trillion per year with no end to the insanity in sight. People just will not accept the reality that we cannot continue spending twice our income and borrowing our way ever deeper into the hole. 
 It may be possible to spend one's way out of certain financial difficulties but not when you're spending borrowed money. Sixty cents of every Federal dollar is borrowed and that can only worsen if Obama and the congress continue on the present course, which they certainly will do.

[scootrd]

The issue with the Bush tax cuts is how they were implemented. The SHARE OF THE TOTAL TAX CUTS (see Below) overwhelmingly and disproportionately favored the top % income Brackets. 

The top percentile received 73% of the benefits.
Middle income earners received only 7.5 %. of the cuts benefits.

So yes , if they expired in their entirety, it would be a crushing blow to the middle-class.
They wealthy never needed them to begin with.

[Redtail1949]

we will have the next "doomsday" in just a month or so then another after that one. each time we will see the same game..:kick it down the road accomplish nothing other than more hidden pork combined with payoffs to the O supporters. O will continue this little game for the next 4 years. the republicans each tiome will cave in for fear that they will be "BLAMED FOR THE COLLAPSE' or whatever.
I for one say bring this Dictator to a screeching halt DO NOT GIVE HIM ANY INCREASE IN THE DEBT CEILING NONE WHATSOEVER. yes i know what will happen and i for one say it must be done and now not 6 months not a year down the road.
if the republicans can force this to happen the pain will be great and all will share it. however, history will show that they were the ones that saved this nation. they will pay for it in the short term but as i said history will have a special place for those that stand up to this tyrant and stop him and his agenda.

[BBF]

Seeing how "boner" keeps caving in perhaps it is time for a new Speaker.

[scootrd]

DO NOT GIVE HIM ANY INCREASE IN THE DEBT CEILING NONE WHATSOEVER. yes i know what will happen and i for one say it must be done and now not 6 months not a year down the road.

I'm not sure you really do.
America would become a dead beat global debter. Our economy would tank on a global scale. The debt ceiling requirement is an obligation for congress to pay the bills on already owed obligations. It has nothing to do with Obama getting anything. It has everything to do with the good faith and credit of the US and our economy.

Stocks would tank.
SS checks would not go out
active-duty soldiers, veterans would not get paid,
taxpayers due refunds would not receive them
No federal workers would be paid
suppliers of goods and services to the government would not receive payment
Treasury yields would start to climb and  push cost of U.S. debt higher.
rates on consumer loans -- like mortgages and car loans  would climb tanking US economic recovery.
If interest or principal payment by Treasury were not made global financial markets would collapse.

But hey , if you still think it's something congressional leaders should play pattycake and toss the grenade around in a game of political football why wait to experience , Save some time , buy a ticket to Greece.

[Redtail1949]

I do understand  there will be world wide economic chaos for certain severe recession most likely us depression. however it coming now or later. no one absolutely no believes that our present course is sustainable. we do have a chance, a slim chance, if we stop this insane spending and immeadiately start making cuts and make the absolutely nesseccary changes to the medi care social security and so on we have a slim chance to make it. if the president will not take and support the measures to make our nation fiscaly secure then we, the republicans, the democrats whoever, must take the actions, so no to raiseing the debt limit, that must be done to stop him from certain destruction of our economy. Yes, i certainly do know what will happen and i also, know we can make it thru it if we must. we will not make it thru it if we wait much longer and our debt soars  to 25 trillon or so. the collapse will happen anyway but the chance of recovery will not be there. ewveryone wants no pain thats why we are where we are today. no one wants the pain. well the pain is coming like it or not. we can try to make it less painful and possibly surviveable or we can let this idiot make certain that we don't.

[gypsyman]

Whats going on in DC is no different than what takes place in a rehab center. Lets try methadone, or lower dosages of crack,LSD,whatever. It isn't going to work. Sooner or later, and I'm hoping for sooner, it'll be time to go cold turkey. And with millions of people in this country depending on govt., for jobs that are not required or needed, food and/or housing that they never earned, just handed to them, it'll be a shock. I'm betting most of us will suvive. The rest,? gypsyman