Author Topic: Military may lose much of it's funds  (Read 1488 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Military may lose much of it's funds
« on: December 29, 2012, 06:31:15 AM »
  If we go "off the fiscal cliff" our military will be severely defunded..  Meanwhile Obama gives Biden and congress a PAY RAISE..
        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Anna

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 07:17:52 AM »
Imagine that ! And just whose military will this end up being ? With China rapidly increasing its milllitary in size and scope. The continental US is a pretty big place to have to defend unless that isn't
your ultimate goal. Falling back into a more defensive area would be the wisest choise to make here.
Concentrating that area with people who are more of the mind set that you are and let the red states
fend for themselves.Gather up what you can out of these states like money and assets before you cut
them loose.Along with large amounts of the milllitary hardware you currently have positioned in those
states.And cutting your troop strength in half as some deal you have made with other country's .

Offline bilmac

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 07:21:38 AM »
The military was stripped down to bare bones before WWll so the soldiers on duty at the start up paid in blood. The war took much longer to win and millions died during the war because the Japanese and Germans got such a head start before we got tooled up.

Offline Anna

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 08:05:04 AM »
+1, as to whose military will it be anyway. Putin early on saw that Russia could not rely on a military
that had been integrated with so many personnel from the outlying satellites that at that time were
at odds with Moscow.  The Kremlin was even having trouble within Georgia, one of Russia's largest
defense centers. As to the question of will our military fire on its own people ? Like has even been
said here, that would depend on where those troops are from and who it is they are fireing on.
As far as east and west, that could end up going both ways. The same problem Putin was faced
with when he decided to withdraw against the wishes of Gorbachev.

Why cripple your military strength when you know that you may need them in the upcoming days to
prevent outsiders from taking advantage of the situation?Only a fool would do that,use those troops to cover your back as you leave former states out there to fend for themselves. As we saw,the elation
of Soviet troops leaving those former satellites was short lived. To be in some areas left with the
ensuring chaos that followed.


 

Offline powderman

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 03:33:55 PM »
  If we go "off the fiscal cliff" our military will be severely defunded..  Meanwhile Obama gives Biden and congress a PAY RAISE..
        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html

 
WEakening our military may well be his goal, just another step in destroying us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 04:06:18 PM »
  If we go "off the fiscal cliff" our military will be severely defunded..  Meanwhile Obama gives Biden and congress a PAY RAISE..
        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html

 
WEakening our military may well be his goal, just another step in destroying us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
laughable.


the US military is, compared to every other military in the world, lavishly funded. It's a pig which can go on a diet.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 04:38:29 PM »
  If we go "off the fiscal cliff" our military will be severely defunded..  Meanwhile Obama gives Biden and congress a PAY RAISE..
        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html

 
WEakening our military may well be his goal, just another step in destroying us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
laughable.


the US military is, compared to every other military in the world, lavishly funded. It's a pig which can go on a diet.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
  There are a lot of other pigs which should go on a diet first;
   http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-orders-raise-biden-members-congress-federal-workers_692223.html
 
   At least the military is useful...and accomplishes things.. :D ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 01:26:43 AM »
   At least the military is useful...and accomplishes things.. :D ;D
it's a FANTASTIC jobs program, that sucks up huge amounts of money - I'll admit that. Fine retirement benefits, unlimited business opportunities, it seems.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Dinny

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 01:55:16 AM »
it's a FANTASTIC jobs program, that sucks up huge amounts of money - I'll admit that. Fine retirement benefits, unlimited business opportunities, it seems.

Really? Ever served during a war? I hope you have, because it sure is easy to sit on the outside and talk about the inside when you're not the one being shot at. >:(

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 03:28:26 AM »
it's a FANTASTIC jobs program, that sucks up huge amounts of money - I'll admit that. Fine retirement benefits, unlimited business opportunities, it seems.

Really?
Yeah - really.
Quote
Ever served during a war?
Hot or cold? Most of the time it was a Cold War. Whaddya think of that?
Quote
I hope you have, because it sure is easy to sit on the outside and talk about the inside when you're not the one being shot at. >:( 
What if I have, what if I haven't? Do you see some certain advantage either way, when it comes to talk about the inside? Anyhow... is it your position that the US military is under-funded, an cannot afford to do without any of the largess it currently receives?


On this business of the US military being severely defunded... what percentage constitutes 'severely'?

and Dinny... you're welcome!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Dinny

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 06:14:57 AM »
YT3,
Technology has changed alot since the Cold War and all that technology costs alot of money. Our military is one of, if not, the best equipped. I believe that most of those equipment expenses save our lives each and every day. There's so much more out there than what can be typed or even said. One just has to see it (in 2012 GWOT perspective ;)) to understand the big picture and see where all the money goes.

With that being said, there are thousands of civilian contractors absorbing a whole lotta money off of defense contracts. If we had more qualified soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to do those jobs then we wouldn't have to spend as much as we do. I just wish American youths (18-25) were as passionate about serving their country as their grandfathers were. I blame the media's approach on war, parents not teaching proper values, beliefs and morals as the reason fewer qualified Americans are volunteering.

Just some other facts, I'm currently serving and have deployed and fought in war three times now. That's how I feel qualified to speak about the current status of our military budget. ;)

Lessening our budget will likely cost lives, either ours or that of innocent civilians. Both are avoidable.

Thanks, Dinny
Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 06:27:18 AM »
I see spending on the military as a necessary evil.  There are evil people and forces in this world.  Someone like the US has to keep order.  Would you rather see our soldiers use Trijicon sights and night vision or just plain iron sights?  Would you rather see our soldiers have good bullet proof vests or non at all?  I do agree we have a lot of bases in friendly countries that could probably be shut down because they really aren't needed anymore.  That's about it though.  Some of the individual personal equipment is necessary.  My son is going to Afganistan in August, so I want him equiped with the best stuff available.  There are a lot of welfare queens that could go to work instead.  I want us to have the best fighter planes, best air craft carriers, best subs, tanks, and other stuff money can buy.   Thanks Dinny for your service. 

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 07:56:53 AM »
I want us to have the best fighter planes, best air craft carriers, best subs, tanks, and other stuff money can buy.   Thanks Dinny for your service.
Well, we should - we spend almost as much as THE ENTIRE WORLD COMBINED, including our allies. Here's a handy chart:





Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Anna

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 11:23:54 AM »
That's because we seem to be the police department for the entire world !

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 05:39:21 AM »
YT3,
Technology has changed alot since the Cold War and all that technology costs alot of money. Our military is one of, if not, the best equipped. I believe that most of those equipment expenses save our lives each and every day. There's so much more out there than what can be typed or even said. One just has to see it (in 2012 GWOT perspective ;) ) to understand the big picture and see where all the money goes.

With that being said, there are thousands of civilian contractors absorbing a whole lotta money off of defense contracts. If we had more qualified soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to do those jobs then we wouldn't have to spend as much as we do. I just wish American youths (18-25) were as passionate about serving their country as their grandfathers were. I blame the media's approach on war, parents not teaching proper values, beliefs and morals as the reason fewer qualified Americans are volunteering.

Just some other facts, I'm currently serving and have deployed and fought in war three times now. That's how I feel qualified to speak about the current status of our military budget. ;)

Lessening our budget will likely cost lives, either ours or that of innocent civilians. Both are avoidable.

Thanks, Dinny

Denny! First I'll say....Thanks for your service.
Since WW2 we have become, for what ever the reasons, an agressor (NOT) a defender.Korea comes to mind. A civil war between North and South.What did that cost us in lives and the pocket book of tax payers?I was in the service when we got involved in another countries civil war (V.N).The same old BS feed to us by the powers in DC. (Fighting communism).
Now we are waging war against another evil.We have enough defensive weapons now to destroy anyone in the world if they chose to attack us. How much more do we need? No doubt regardless who is in the big seat in DC the military is going to lose funds. This country of ours is going down the tubes, and every department and everybody will suffer. Watch this video, and see things as they really are.
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/EW5IdwltaAc?rel=0
 
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Offline magooch

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 05:54:55 AM »
The military must be our highest priority, but that doesn't mean that it can't be made more cost effective and that there isn't savings to be had.  I know that when I was in the Navy and then the Air Force, there were a lot of career guys who didn't do much.  The lower ranks did all the work and the NCOs mostly were supervisors.  The problem was that there weren't enough workers for all them supervisors to supervise.  There were also a lot of excess officers that could easily have been replaced by higher ranking NCOs.  Most of the junior officers were placed in positions where they were utterly unqualified and were just a nuisance.
I never could understand how Generals and Admirals deserved all the special perks they got; the same was true for some Colonels and Navy Captains.  It should be enough that they get a sufficiently equitable salary.  We don't need a bunch of overly glorified tin gods in our military.
Military pensions should be looked at.  I'm not so sure that 20 year retirements are justified any more; maybe 25 years should be minimum.
Swingem

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2012, 06:49:46 AM »
Have none of you been in the military?  Those who were or are saw the tremendous day-to-day waste and abuse.  We won't suffer a lack of military presence and protection from budget restraints.  The military leaders will simply have to be more responsible with all the freebies military personnel have always had.  Yes, they are in harm's way, but for the most part, they are where they are because it's a job.  Food and lodging.  Clothes and medical.  It sounds unpatriotic, but a soldier's life is one he/she chose for reasons other than patriotism.  If you've served, you know.  Many of the men are homosexual, and the military is a place where they can always be among males.  Many of the females are lesbian, and the military is a place where they can act like men.  Drug abuse and alcoholism is rampant.  A great many of the people are there because they'd never make it anywhere else. The only other place where the black race is a higher percentage is found in Chigago slums and prisons.  It was a better place to be when we had the draft, because the draft took good men along with the bad.  The officers are generally the exception.  They spent great effort on getting where they are.  The average GI Joe who gets his belly blown apart by a roadside bomb didn't think it would happen to him.  He is just the kid who wanted some adventure and free stuff without having to invest so very much.  When it happens, the nation goes berserk trying to thank him.  Thanks a lot, they say, for running over a bomb.  That did us soooo much good.  Thank you, thank you. 
I say the sand dwellers are a war-like people who will never change.  I say we can't help them at all.  I say that the average enlisted U.S. military kid doesn't have a clue.  But they WOULD have a clue if the waste stopped.  I'm all for cutting back military spending, because a great part of said spending is not military in nature at all, except that it comes out of the military's budget.       
The whole problem with people who like to talk it up about a strong military, is that they ignore the truth.  I despise Obama and all his plans, but a cut back in waste and fraud within the military is long overdue.     

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2012, 06:53:38 AM »
When we change our policy on meddleing with the affairs of other countries we can change our military budget. Until that time I really can't support sending our troops out without the support they deserve.
 
We spend half the worlds budget on defense? I could argue we also have half of the worlds wealth to defend. How many of the countries of the world look at the US and say to themselves look at that miserable third world dump, what possible reason would we want anything they have to offer? Name me a country blessed with more resources and treasure, a country that has more to defend than we do.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 03:26:23 PM »
Thanks for your service Dinny...yours and a million more patriots like you...
It seems some here think Obama phones, contraceptives for those without self-control, failed solar companies and killing little pre-born boys & girls are better "investments" of our tax money.  If some of these "freebies" were pulled, our military would not need to cut beyond the fringe waste which takes place.
   
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2012, 04:42:42 PM »
Thanks for your service Dinny...yours and a million more patriots like you...
It seems some here think Obama phones, contraceptives for those without self-control, failed solar companies and killing little pre-born boys & girls are better "investments" of our tax money.  If some of these "freebies" were pulled, our military would not need to cut beyond the fringe waste which takes place.
 

 
What is your point with the HUGE fonts and accusations about some on here being in favor of Obama and his being pro abortion or giving free phones away?Where did you come up with that garbage? I don't recall anyone saying anything like that.Are you just in your usual way trying to flame this thread?
 
This topic is about funding for the military. Not Cell phones or abortion issues.
Quit shouting, and stay on topic.
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Offline Dinny

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 02:56:15 AM »
I guess what it all boils down to is perspective. Some have it and many more do not.

Have none of you been in the military? Those who were or are saw the tremendous day-to-day waste and abuse.  We won't suffer a lack of military presence and protection from budget restraints.  The military leaders will simply have to be more responsible with all the freebies military personnel have always had. Yes, they are in harm's way, but for the most part, they are where they are because it's a job.  Food and lodging.  Clothes and medical.  It sounds unpatriotic, but a soldier's life is one he/she chose for reasons other than patriotism.  If you've served, you know.  Many of the men are homosexual, and the military is a place where they can always be among malesMany of the females are lesbian, and the military is a place where they can act like men.  Drug abuse and alcoholism is rampant.  A great many of the people are there because they'd never make it anywhere else. The only other place where the black race is a higher percentage is found in Chigago slums and prisons.   It was a better place to be when we had the draft, because the draft took good men along with the bad.  The officers are generally the exceptionThey spent great effort on getting where they are.  The average GI Joe who gets his belly blown apart by a roadside bomb didn't think it would happen to him.  He is just the kid who wanted some adventure and free stuff without having to invest so very much.  When it happens, the nation goes berserk trying to thank him.  Thanks a lot, they say, for running over a bomb.  That did us soooo much good.  Thank you, thank you. 
I say the sand dwellers are a war-like people who will never change.  I say we can't help them at all.  I say that the average enlisted U.S. military kid doesn't have a clue.   But they WOULD have a clue if the waste stopped.  I'm all for cutting back military spending, because a great part of said spending is not military in nature at all, except that it comes out of the military's budget.       
The whole problem with people who like to talk it up about a strong military, is that they ignore the truth.  I despise Obama and all his plans, but a cut back in waste and fraud within the military is long overdue.     

I disagree with most of this post, especialy the bold items.

Thanks, Dinny
Handi Family: 357 Max, 45 LC, 45-70, 300 BLK, 50 cal Huntsman, and 348 Win.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

Offline twoshooter

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 04:36:28 AM »
It is human nature to defend oneself and those close to us. It is easy to believe that whatever we are engaged in is some how more noble or necessary than the  next guy. Unfortunately that is often not true, often you are actually part of a bloated, ego inflated behemoth that sucks funds from other programs by fear mongering and extortion, otherwise known as a protection racket. I am sure that the guys setting in some hell hole getting shot at are not consciously involved in this, but that does not mean that the upper echelons of power in the organization are not in it up to their eyeballs. For all the anti government  posters here let me shout , there is NOTHING MORE GOVERNMENT THAN THE MILITARY. The fact that your sorry butt was once in a mudhole with tracer rounds zipping by means that you were dedicated , followed orders, and were no coward, it does NOT mean that the overall goal, operation, or mission you were on was right, good, positive, productive, or necessary. You may all think you were Sgt York, but reality is closer to Sgt Bilko.
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Offline just-an-illusion

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2013, 05:26:01 AM »
First of all, THANK YOU to Dinny and all the others here who have severed to protect our freedom.
 
Now, I think that if the U.S. would stop trying to be the police and savior of the world we would not be in half the financial mess we are in now. How many trillions have we spent on trying to stop a holy war that has been going on for thousands of years with the camel jokeys? It is not about U.S. security anymore, it's all political agenda.
It started in Korea, then spread to Vietnam, then Kuwait. All for naught, hundreds of thousands of AMERICAN lives lost for someone's political gain. We had no buisness sticking our nose in THEIR buisness. Their fighting had NO threat to American soil or well being.
 
Iraq and Afghanstan were a given after 9-11, BUT we didnt have to stretch it out for 10 plus years and counting. With all the technology and intellegance that we have, Sadam and Bin Laden could have been taken out early on. Look what we did to Japan in WWII; mess with the bull, get the horn.
 
I think our military deserves the best the world has to offer. We just need to stop trying to act like the referee of the world and take a step back and look at taking care of #1, THE U.S.A, first. If we don't soon pull back and rebuild and take care of true Homeland Defense, It'll soon be too late and we will be spread to thin.
 
 I'm all for helping other when we can, BUT when we have kids at home starving and homeless, they have to come first. To hell with the others when we can't, don't, won't take care of our own. All these lazy scumbags laing around sucking the govermental tit need to be cut off and be forced to work if at all possible, or face the losing end of the strong and determined will survive. There are plenty of jobs out there that will earn you a paycheck of some sort if you want it. What reason do these people have when a unemployment check if $275 a week and 40 hrs. of minimum wage is less than $320 BEFORE taxes, transportation, clothing, effort, etc. People have no incintive to work when they can sit on the A$$ and let the good ol goverment send the a check every week, food stamps every month, free healthcare, plus a bonus check for all the kids they can pop out.
 
Again, Thanks to ALL who have served.
GOD BLESS

Offline ironglow

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 06:34:30 AM »
Thanks for your service Dinny...yours and a million more patriots like you...
It seems some here think Obama phones, contraceptives for those without self-control, failed solar companies and killing little pre-born boys & girls are better "investments" of our tax money.  If some of these "freebies" were pulled, our military would not need to cut beyond the fringe waste which takes place.
 

 
 
What is your point with the HUGE fonts and accusations about some on here being in favor of Obama and his being pro abortion or giving free phones away?Where did you come up with that garbage? I don't recall anyone saying anything like that.Are you just in your usual way trying to flame this thread?
 
This topic is about funding for the military. Not Cell phones or abortion issues.
Quit shouting, and stay on topic.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
NW:
  At this very moment elected leaders in Washington are debating just how they will split up funds they seize from the people and perhaps take even more.  They claim there is not enough to go around.
   To "provide for the common defense" is a constitutional prerequisite.  The various programs I mentioned are nowhere listed in the constitution.  When a citizen calls for a defunding of the military while not calling first for the defunding of these unconstitutional programs, they are by default..supporting such expenditures..that's simple logic!
  I would much rather see $200 of my tax money go to a protective vest for a Soldier or Marine, that to be spent on a cell phone for a crack dealer!
 
  Any student of history knows, the surest way for any nation to be attacked is to be perceived as weak..However paraphrasing Ronald Reagan.." No nation was ever attacked by another nation because they were too strong".
       It is my contention that we could maintain a strong military and still tax & spend less if many of the unconstitutional programs were eliminated.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 06:35:39 AM »
Discussing anything about the military, and not raising the temperature is difficult thing to do.When someone like Denny and other sons and daughters of ours are putting their lives on the line, they need the full support of the country.Regardless of the reason they joined.When the bullets start flying, it's all about fighting to save yourself and the ones next to you.You don't have time to think about being patriotic.
Some of us....... Including those uf us who have served, dont think we need to be sending thousands of our young men and women into harms way in countries that have not declared war on us, and who pose NO threat to us.We don't think the cause is worth the loss of money we don't have, or worth the lives of our children.
Do we need a Powerful military for defense? Sure, but do we need one to pose it's will on other countries? Rome thought they did and look what hppened to them.
Freedom Of Speech.....Once we lose it, every other freedom will follow.

Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2013, 11:17:39 AM »
Smedley Buttler had it right many years ago.If he was alive today, what do you think his take would be on military funding?Would it fall on deaf ears today?Evidently it would.This a portion of his speach:
War Is A Racket
 
A speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
 Smedley Butler
WAR is a racket. It always has been
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.
A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.
How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.
It would have been far cheaper (not to say safer) for the average American who pays the bills to stay out of foreign entanglements. For a very few this racket, like bootlegging and other underworld rackets, brings fancy profits, but the cost of operations is always transferred to the people – who do not profit.
 CHAPTER TWO
WHO MAKES THE PROFITS?
 
The normal profits of a business concern in the United States are six, eight, ten, and sometimes twelve percent. But war-time profits – ah! that is another matter – twenty, sixty, one hundred, three hundred, and even eighteen hundred per cent – the sky is the limit. All that traffic will bear. Uncle Sam has the money. Let's get it.
 Of course, it isn't put that crudely in war time. It is dressed into speeches about patriotism, love of country, and "we must all put our shoulders to the wheel," but the profits jump and leap and skyrocket – and are safely pocketed. Let's just take a few examples: ........(Have we heard this before?}
Take our friends the du Ponts, the powder people – didn't one of them testify before a Senate committee recently that their powder won the war? Or saved the world for democracy? Or something? How did they do in the war? They were a patriotic corporation. Well, the average earnings of the du Ponts for the period 1910 to 1914 were $6,000,000 a year. It wasn't much, but the du Ponts managed to get along on it. Now let's look at their average yearly profit during the war years, 1914 to 1918. Fifty-eight million dollars a year profit we find! Nearly ten times that of normal times, and the profits of normal times were pretty good. An increase in profits of more than 950 per cent.
 HOW TO SMASH THIS RACKET!
 
WELL, it's a racket, all right.
A few profit – and the many pay. But there is a way to stop it. You can't end it by disarmament conferences. You can't eliminate it by peace parleys at Geneva. Well-meaning but impractical groups can't wipe it out by resolutions. It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit out of war.
The only way to smash this racket is to conscript capital and industry and labor before the nations manhood can be conscripted. One month before the Government can conscript the young men of the nation – it must conscript capital and industry and labor. Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our munitions makers and our shipbuilders and our airplane builders and the manufacturers of all the other things that provide profit in war time as well as the bankers and the speculators, be conscripted – to get $30 a month, the same wage as the lads in the trenches get.
Let the workers in these plants get the same wages – all the workers, all presidents, all executives, all directors, all managers, all bankers –
yes, and all generals and all admirals and all officers and all politicians and all government office holders – everyone in the nation be restricted to a total monthly income not to exceed that paid to the soldier in the trenches!
Let all these kings and tycoons and masters of business and all those workers in industry and all our senators and governors and majors pay half of their monthly $30 wage to their families and pay war risk insurance and buy Liberty Bonds.
Why shouldn't they?
They aren't running any risk of being killed or of having their bodies mangled or their minds shattered. They aren't sleeping in muddy trenches. They aren't hungry. The soldiers are!
Give capital and industry and labor thirty days to think it over and you will find, by that time, there will be no war. That will smash the war racket – that and nothing else.
Maybe I am a little too optimistic. Capital still has some say. So capital won't permit the taking of the profit out of war until the people – those who do the suffering and still pay the price – make up their minds that those they elect to office shall do their bidding, and not that of the profiteers.
Another step necessary in this fight to smash the war racket is the limited plebiscite to determine whether a war should be declared. A plebiscite not of all the voters but merely of those who would be called upon to do the fighting and dying. There wouldn't be very much sense in having a 76-year-old president of a munitions factory or the flat-footed head of an international banking firm or the cross-eyed manager of a uniform manufacturing plant – all of whom see visions of tremendous profits in the event of war – voting on whether the nation should go to war or not. They never would be called upon to shoulder arms – to sleep in a trench and to be shot. Only those who would be called upon to risk their lives for their country should have the privilege of voting to determine whether the nation should go to war.
There is ample precedent for restricting the voting to those affected. Many of our states have restrictions on those permitted to vote. In most, it is necessary to be able to read and write before you may vote. In some, you must own property. It would be a simple matter each year for the men coming of military age to register in their communities as they did in the draft during the World War and be examined physically. Those who could pass and who would therefore be called upon to bear arms in the event of war would be eligible to vote in a limited plebiscite. They should be the ones to have the power to decide – and not a Congress few of whose members are within the age limit and fewer still of whom are in physical condition to bear arms. Only those who must suffer should have the right to vote.
 A third step in this business of smashing the war racket is to make certain that our military forces are truly forces for defense only.
 
Three steps must be taken to smash the war racket.
We must take the profit out of war.
We must permit the youth of the land who would bear arms to decide whether or not there should be war.
We must limit our military forces to home defense purposes.
 CHAPTER FIVE
TO HELL WITH WAR!
 
I am not a fool as to believe that war is a thing of the past. I know the people do not want war, but there is no use in saying we cannot be pushed into another war.
Looking back, Woodrow Wilson was re-elected president in 1916 on a platform that he had "kept us out of war" and on the implied promise that he would "keep us out of war." Yet, five months later he asked Congress to declare war on Germany.
In that five-month interval the people had not been asked whether they had changed their minds. The 4,000,000 young men who put on uniforms and marched or sailed away were not asked whether they wanted to go forth to suffer and die.
The professional soldiers and sailors don't want to disarm. No admiral wants to be without a ship. No general wants to be without a command. Both mean men without jobs. They are not for disarmament. They cannot be for limitations of arms. And at all these conferences, lurking in the background but all-powerful, just the same, are the sinister agents of those who profit by war. They see to it that these conferences do not disarm or seriously limit armaments.
The chief aim of any power at any of these conferences has not been to achieve disarmament to prevent war but rather to get more armament for itself and less for any potential foe.
There is only one way to disarm with any semblance of practicability. That is for all nations to get together and scrap every ship, every gun, every rifle, every tank, every war plane. Even this, if it were possible, would not be enough.
The next war, according to experts, will be fought not with battleships, not by artillery, not with rifles and not with machine guns. It will be fought with deadly chemicals and gases.
Secretly each nation is studying and perfecting newer and ghastlier means of annihilating its foes wholesale. Yes, ships will continue to be built, for the shipbuilders must make their profits. And guns still will be manufactured and powder and rifles will be made, for the munitions makers must make their huge profits. And the soldiers, of course, must wear uniforms, for the manufacturer must make their war profits too.
But victory or defeat will be determined by the skill and ingenuity of our scientists.
If we put them to work making poison gas and more and more fiendish mechanical and explosive instruments of destruction, they will have no time for the constructive job of building greater prosperity for all peoples. By putting them to this useful job, we can all make more money out of peace than we can out of war – even the munitions makers.
So...I say, TO HELL WITH WAR.Smedley Darlington Butler
 
Major General - United States Marine Corps [Retired]
Born West Chester, Pa., July 30, 1881
 
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2013, 11:30:57 AM »
It is human nature to defend oneself and those close to us. It is easy to believe that whatever we are engaged in is some how more noble or necessary than the  next guy. Unfortunately that is often not true, often you are actually part of a bloated, ego inflated behemoth that sucks funds from other programs by fear mongering and extortion, otherwise known as a protection racket. I am sure that the guys setting in some hell hole getting shot at are not consciously involved in this, but that does not mean that the upper echelons of power in the organization are not in it up to their eyeballs. For all the anti government  posters here let me shout , there is NOTHING MORE GOVERNMENT THAN THE MILITARY. The fact that your sorry butt was once in a mudhole with tracer rounds zipping by means that you were dedicated , followed orders, and were no coward, it does NOT mean that the overall goal, operation, or mission you were on was right, good, positive, productive, or necessary. You may all think you were Sgt York, but reality is closer to Sgt Bilko.


twoshooter must spend some time at the range, far more than his avatar, because he surely knows how to hit the 10-ring.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2013, 04:22:56 PM »
Some of us....... Including those uf us who have served, dont think we need to be sending thousands of our young men and women into harms way in countries that have not declared war on us, and who pose NO threat to us.We don't think the cause is worth the loss of money we don't have, or worth the lives of our children.
Do we need a Powerful military for defense? Sure, but do we need one to pose it's will on other countries? Rome thought they did and look what hppened to them.

+1
Semper Fi
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline ironglow

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2013, 04:43:17 AM »
Some of us....... Including those uf us who have served, dont think we need to be sending thousands of our young men and women into harms way in countries that have not declared war on us, and who pose NO threat to us.We don't think the cause is worth the loss of money we don't have, or worth the lives of our children.
Do we need a Powerful military for defense? Sure, but do we need one to pose it's will on other countries? Rome thought they did and look what hppened to them.

+1
Semper Fi
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    Others of us who have served, think we should root out and bring to justice, terrorists who have killed 3,000 and more fellow Americans...does that idea surprise you?..
  Those with a grasp of asymetrical warfare, understand that some unscrupulous regimes will use terrorists to destroy as many Americans as possible  ..and never declare war.  Do you really figure we should allow these state-sponsored terrorists to have more "free shots" of the 9/11 type..simply because Iran or some other hate-filled regime neglects to officially declare war?
   If you think modern warfare is normally preceded by an official war declaration, you better come up to speed.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Military may lose much of it's funds
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 04:54:50 AM »
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Others of us who have served, think we should root out terrorists who have killed 3,000 and more fellow Americans...nothing new there..

Absolutely, too many have forgotten that day.  when I watched those towers fall I had a knot in my chest until I heard Bush say we will get them.
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