Author Topic: Are Big Bores as versatile like a 30-06 ? (Read 2567 times)

Dresden · « **on:** December 29, 2012, 06:38:09 AM »

I have a Ruger 416 Alaskan and load it to 2150 fps & 4000 ft/lb's . The 450-400 made a reputation with a little less than this. I also have a CZ550 416 Rigby, I can load full charges of Trail Boss and shoot 400's all day, I have not tried lighter bullets yet and was wondering what other shooters do.

JeffG · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2013, 05:20:59 AM »

There has to be lead bullet info for your caliber. I can load my with 458 Winny up or down with lead from rabbits to buffalo without the sharp recoil.

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2013, 11:32:14 AM »

The 45-70 is quite versatile, as is the 444. Either can be loaded up or down to plink with or hunt big game. Your 30 caliber will run from about 110 gns to 220, a 100 gn weight spread. The 45-70 gives you a larger spread than that, I believe, runniing all the way to 550 gns, and the 444 will run 180s to 405s. You may find the lighter weight bullets at hyper velocities might not stabalize well for long distance shooting in barrels with slow (1:38 twists) but when you get down to some of the faster twist barrels your versatility increases, imo.

Dresden · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2013, 02:05:29 AM »

Thanks , I guess I have some work to do, for me it would be easier to buy precast lubricated bullets, i will check Load data to see what the lightest bullets I can find a load for.

It would seem to me that most calibers that have good case capacity can be loaded to different uses
like a 30 caliber rifle can.

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2013, 05:25:26 PM »

Depending on what you call a Big Bore your practical hunting range tends to get less as the caliber increases.

Nobade · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2013, 02:38:41 AM »

I am quite sold on the big bores. My newest 416 Taylor pretty much does anything I would want to do with a rifle within limits. It's not a great 1000 yard target gun, or all that fun to shoot lots of prairie dog with. But for plinking out to 500 yards on steel, shooting little groups on paper, and hunting pretty much anything it is hard to beat. I primarily use the RCBS 350gr. grease groove bullet or a custom 400gr. paper patched bullet from Accurate molds. With these two I can go from subsonic to 2350 fps with the paper patched one. Just depends on how flat shooting I want and how much recoil I care to experience. Since accuracy runs 1/2 - 1 MOA it's no problem to hit things way out there if I have my range finder and PDA or drop chart. Just like the '06 only a whole lot more effective.

A big 45 like the Lott or an Ackley would be even more versatile. You can get round balls that size, all manner of pistol bullets can be paper patched, all the way up to 600gr. or so if you feel the need.

My next big bore build is going to be a 470 Capstick, for the same reasons. Easy to use belted mag basic brass, full power out of 20 inches of barrel, fits in a long Remington action, and can use commonly available jacketed pistol bullets up to really big chunks of lead. Makes a good black powder cartridge. Plus I want to see what happens to a prairie dog when hit with a 325gr. XTP going 2700 fps.

Of course if you aren't a bullet caster and handloader the big bore rifles aren't for you. Shooting nothing but full power ammo at $7/shot isn't exactly terribly useful for most things.

BBF · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2013, 09:12:57 AM »

Quote from: Nobade on January 04, 2013, 02:38:41 AM

I

. Shooting nothing but full power ammo at $7/shot isn't exactly terribly useful for most things.

You said(wrote) it !!

I do like big bores hence my handle.
I've had rifles in .338, .358,.375,.44 and now .458

I've also had a small bore phase.

Flynmoose · « **Reply #7 on:** January 05, 2013, 01:21:59 PM »

I shoot alot of 45-70 TrailBoss loads in my rifles. Arthritis in my shoulders threatened my big bore fun until I found TrailBoss and 405 LaserCast bullets. I can plink at steel targets at 500 yards with my Pedersili rolling block or get nasty on coyotes too dumb to stay away from me with my Ruger #1S. I consider the 45-70 to be versatile and fun to load for and shoot.
FM

GrassLakeRon · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2013, 04:30:27 AM »

In a word Yes. My 375 H&H can be loaded to shoot a 200 grain bullet at 375 Winchester power or full power 350 grain loads for Cape Buffalo. So from mid size to dangerous game is covered.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2013, 12:23:20 PM »

Yes. I have a couple of reduced loads for my 458:
405gn cast with Trailboss for 1000fps (ie sub-sonic)
500gn cast with AR2207 for 1600fps
I've used the 500gn loads on pigs with success.
Big holes are always going to do the job

BBF · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2013, 06:45:11 AM »

Going back to the original OP question.

NO, IMO they are not.
There is nothing in N. America that can't be handled with a 30-06. Perhaps not with one shot but it can be done.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2013, 01:59:19 AM »

I love my big bores but have to agree with bbf. NOTHING is as versitile as the good old 06

454Puma · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2013, 05:32:10 PM »

I have to agree the '06 in a bolt gun is very versitile! From 100 gr plinker up to 240gr slegde hammers. Shooting cast bullets in wts from 113 gr soup can too 220 gr that can be loaded from mouse fart loads to long range target loads. And all day parrie dog stomper, to dangerous game taker! My current '06 limts me some as the Rem 7400 is kind of picky as to what bullets it will shoot an function the action. But it's still my favorite caliber along with my other 30's 30-30 and 300 Blk!

You bigbore guys just like burning a ton of powder!

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2013, 05:37:38 PM »

Puma
Depending on how adventurous you want to be with the 7400 you could get a second action spring( the long one ) and start cutting it shorter to let the action open when using real reduced loads.

jpuke · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2013, 01:52:23 AM »

I would agree that the bigger bores are not as versatile but I also think that versatility is overrated.

When I first began reloading for my 30-06 I was dying to have a varmint load, deer load, and then loads for bigger critters. I loaded up a bunch of ammo, began shooting and realized that it's a lot more work to have a "versatile" rifle. I would sight in for a 110 gr bullet and shoot targets for a few months for fun and then get ready for deer by sighting in the 150 gr. bullets. I then wanted a 180 gr. load (and eventually a 220 gr load) but soon realized that I didn't like trying to remember which load my gun was sighted in for at the time. I would much rather have one load per gun and practice with it until I know the trajectory and barrel behavior (clean, dirty, hot, cold, etc.) well enough to have confidence. (saves on reloading components as well)

I have found one load for my 45-70 (415 gr. cast, 1700 fps) with which I have had consistent success and enjoy shooting and hunting with every time. One sight setting, one trajectory, one purpose. I plan on using the same load and rifle to try and take a few coyotes this spring, it's the only rifle that I have right now so it will do just fine.

I'm getting a new 30-06 soon so the versatility of my rifle collection will increase.

BBF · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2013, 06:14:59 PM »

Changing back and forth is a Pita no doubt unless you want to use different scopes for each particular load. Even that gets to be burdensome. What makes the 30-06 so versatile is that it can be used all over North America for just about every game available. A 165 gr bullet IMO is about the best compromise for most Game excluding perhaps the big bears. A 165 gr Nosler PT at over 2800fps if needed may even handle the big fellows

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #16 on:** January 29, 2013, 12:42:16 AM »

Having a second go at a response - I still say yes.
A friend of mine went to Africa recently and took his 416Rigby. He had worked up two loads: a 340gn for plains game and a 450gn for dangerous game. He also has a scope for each load on QD mounts. Unfortunatley he wasn't able to shoot DG (time and money) but he took a wide range of plains game. It was a "behind the wire" game reserve, so he never managed to get all that close. Most shots were between 200 to 250yards - he is an excellent off-hand shot by the way.

BBF · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2013, 04:34:18 AM »

If you put Africa on the playing field you get a slightly different situation. Bigger stuff and also Regulations on what the host country considers minimum cartridges.
I suppose a .375 H&H would also do in N. America. I had an excellent shooting Ruger#1 Tropical many years ago. Downloading with bullets meant for the .375 Win was possible but it still was a very heavy rifle to carry around.

wolverine_1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »

Big bore are very versatile; probably not in the same way as the 30-06, but never the less, versatile. Not flat shooting with light weight slugs, but effective over a large range of game as short to medium range. When I got my first .45-70, I loaded some cases with 5 gr of Unique and single round balls. Very effective on Artic Hare at 75 yards with no meat spoilage and they dropped instantly. I probably wouldn't try them on anything much smaller, but very fun to shoot. Enjoy your shots.

petemi · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2013, 03:05:09 AM »

Versatile?? Need?? Want?? It all gets jumbled up. If anything was truly versatile we'd all own just that one versatile gun. How many of us do? Versatile is one of the nebulous factors we use to formulate an equation to satisfy need or want. Need is also a justification for want. The last "versatile" gun in North America was the Trade Gun. It was versatile because it was made to do whatever had to be done at the time.......it was also the only act in town.

Pete

corbanzo · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2013, 08:08:01 AM »

I would say it really depends on what size of bore we are talking about?

A .375 is going to have an effective range comparable to a 30-06, while still being able to be loaded down for animals such as deer.

Once you get up over .400, bullet drop starts becoming a problem unless you are putting massive velocities behind those bullets, which takes them out of the category of responsible cartridges for medium sized game. BC becomes a bigger factor when trying to load big caliber bullets at lower velocities.

Whatever a .375 caliber is going to be loaded for, a 30-06 isnt going to do a whole lot better. It is going to do it more efficiently, that is for sure. And a hot, fast load in the 30-06 is going to have a better effective range than even comparable .375 loads without compromising meat at short ranges - but I wouldn't say at a detriment to those other .3xx calibers.

Now if you are shooting inside 200 yards, I would say there is nil to say that any caliber is better than another with the variety of powders and bullets available for any caliber.

But terminal ballistics and killing power all being equal due to loading within those ranges, the .30-06 is going to do it more efficiently, cheaper and lighter.

Oh and if you have ever shot anything smaller than a coyote center mass with a full house .30-06.... you'd know its not THAT versatile...

POOF!

Now if you stay medium bore, there is a definite argument that the .338 is MORE versatile due to its ability to use larger bullets for dangerous game, while still having the ability to load it down for smaller game and maintain some bit of BC with those bullets.

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2013, 09:06:13 AM »

IMO Big Bores start at .375 or even .40 cal.

pastorp · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2013, 04:48:35 AM »

I don't think versatile or practicale have much to do with it. Most of us can convince ourselves that what we like is both versatile & practicale.
I've gone through a lot of stages during this time called life. Looking back I believe I could a done all my hunting with a 22 rifle, 16ga shotgun, & a 30-3o marlin. That's what I started out with and it worked. But life was more fun and much enriched by all the others I have used.

Regards,

sharps4590 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2013, 05:50:33 AM »

I believe it really depends on what you're willing to settle for, or, what it is you want to do. I really like my old 32-20's but admittedly they're a bit much for squirrel....I still use them occasionally. I liked my Ruger # 1 in 375 H&H also....and loaded it down for deer and RB's for even smaller game...'coon and the like. In times past folks used one rifle because that's all they could afford...and they made them work. I expect most of us here try to find more ways to use rifles we really like and reduced loads fill that bill. Of couse that only works if you're a fairly serious handloader or have a friend who is. I expect it's difficult to find factory ammo for a 416 Rigby that's truly suitable for fox. Are they as versatile as the -06? I still say "it depends".

DeerSlayer777 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2013, 09:45:13 AM »

yes. when loaded properly

kynardsj · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2013, 09:59:34 AM »

RedDot powder and cast bullets are a hoot in an '06. I used to play with it in my .308 with the C E Harris load. Here's the link. http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/topic/2704

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2013, 02:52:41 PM »

I shoot lots of big bores when hunting Grizzlies, but I also a 30-06 as a spare gun. While the 30-06 may not break both shoulders of a big bear, I can sure break his spine. The trick is to stop him before he stops me.