Thoughts on 223 and Barrel Length?

[dog driller]

I have read ALL your posts on this topic and felt I had to join. I have had a used  NEF 12 gauge modified choke for years and love it - it takes all the abuse i can give it and still works incredibly well, best $65.00 I ever spent. Liked the single shot concept and price picked a rifle, as a brush type gun , works well. I have been considering another gun in .223 and then read these posts, many of you have the same thoughts I was thinking -- cheap bolt versus single shot. NEF is not as widespread as it used to be around here but can still be found. Most guns I think  are good shooters, but considering the abuse  -- rattling under seat of truck and in tractor--  and lack of attention I have given my 12 gauge and it still hits what I aim at -- with authority, I am leaning NEF over bolt type. The 223 I am afraid is going to see the same type of service as my shot gun. I would like to see this company survive and agree with a lot of you that it would be nice if they could increase some of the quality and offerings the company would continue to be viable.
Having said all that -- I have a question regarding the 223 and its different offerings. What barrel length do some of you like. my rifle is a 20" and it works in the woods for close shots and easy handling but for longe shots-- open fields I don't like the balance as well. I have not found a longer barrelled gun to try shouldering but was thinking 24" might work.  Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

[quickdtoo]

Welcome!  IMO the 20" Superlight is my favorite Handi, a joy to carry, my 24" Ultra Varmint 223 is a heavy bugger with bull barrel, specially in the laminated stock, best for stand hunting, shooting varmint from a bench, I'd not enjoy packing it around all day. The 20" Ultralights Ive hunted miles with and loved every step. 

I split you reply off the original topic since your question is off topic, and BTW, there is no NEF, just H&R1871, they haven't made an NEF marked firearm for several years.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/Brandtransition/

[mcwoodduck]

I am not sure barrel length matters to you.
The abuse you are giving the rifle by bouncing arouns in the truck is going to reek havoc on any scope with the constant vibrations.
With that said the 24" barrel will give you the longest sight radius and be most accurate over distance with iron sights.
Personally I think the Buffalo Classic is the easiest to carry for a long time of the handis.  The Varmint Ultra I have is great but it is a little awkward and butt heavy even with the 20" bull barrel.  (mine is a 22Mag and wears a Weaver 6X 38 scope)
The down side to the Handi as a Varmint gun is the problems with using a bipod that the bolt action guns do not have in reloading and shooting the next ground squirrel or other rodent. 
And as i said before the Scope is going to be your weakest link in a truck gun if you pick the handi, bolt or other. The scope can be replaced under warranty but the misses will drive you nuts as things rattle loose in the scope or the mounts sitting in a rifle rack or under the seat.

[jeepmann1948]

I agree with Quick the 20" and shorter Handis are a pleasure to carry and they move around much easier in a truck as well.
 While I do not drive a tractor I do haul a rifle around a lot in my company truck. I do not have a problem with loose screws or scopes going bad.I don't carry them in a case,just resting between the cushions of the folded up rear seat . (keeps it out of sight). When it gets so dusty it doesn't want to work I blow it off with compressed air and back in the truck it goes.
 Now that deer season is almost over (only 3 more weeks) the Handis will go back on their primary duty of a varmint critter getter. Just for something different i am going to carry the 25-06 shorty (20"barrel)for a few thousand miles
 If you would like to see some pics of what a 223 will do to a deer check out my post on Sassy's first deer.
 One of my many projects is to cut a 22 Hornet Superlight back to 16" ream it to a 22K Hornet" put a low power scope on it and haul it around.
 This long winded reply started out to say :
 "go for the superlight and you won't regret it "
There I finally said it 
Good Luck
George

[knight0334]

I have a preference for longer barrels when it comes to rifles.  And for some odd reason, I like snubnosed revolvers.

When I picked my .223, I chose the Ultra Varmint because of it's heavier and longer barrel.   That extra 50-100fps from the 24" barrel over the 22" helps some for it's intended purpose - varmint.

The Handi's already short action makes even longer barrels seem like a "compact" rifle.  My 26" .25-06 is shorter than most of my uncle's 22" bolt guns.

When I'm varmint hunting, longer barrels aren't a problem at all.  Same when I take a break from my normal stalking of deer and sit with my uncle.   When I stalk though, it is usually in dense pine thickets where I often have to crawl to get through - so my 22" .45-70 is a blessing.   If you're the ambush deer hunter type(tree stands, etc), or varmint hunter - a longer barrel will rarely cause you grief.

[petemi]

The way I use rifles, the shorties work best for me.....in and out of the truck and thick woods.  Light, compact and fast swinging.  Our two 16.5 inch maxis will swing completely around inside the cab of my pickup without bumping into anything.  There are others.  Four 20 inch Superlights in .223, .243 and 7mm-08   A couple of 18 inchers in .38-55 and .356/.358.  With the help of a member here, an 18.5 inch Savage 24 Maxi/20 ga. is brewing.  I much prefer the shorter, lighter rifles.  Handloading easily compensates for any loss of velocity with the shorter barrels and can easily get you back over factory speed.  Scoped, I see no loss of accuracy. 

Ooops, almost forgot the .45 Colt Carbine.

Pete

[hoytcanon]

I agree with Pete... I have two 24" Heavy barreled Ultra Thumbhole guns in .223 and .243... and I like them alot... at the range. For most of my hunting and field rigs I have them chopped to 18", the handling and balance is much better and have not affected the accuracy in any negative way. I chopped a .243 heavy from 24" to 18" and lost only 100 fps with identical loads from the same batch... that is nothing... and since I was not at max, it was easy to compensate for the velocity loss... and it didn't affect the accuracy to shoot the "slightly" hotter load. I still like to keep 2-3 heavy long barreled rigs around... use them mostly for predator hunting... the extra weight does help to steady you for a shot, but they are a bugger to carry, especially on snow shoes in three feet of snow! A good alround compromise is to get the Synthetic Handi Grip gun with the standard 22" barrel... that configuration is not too heavy and can probably take more abuse than a pallet wood model. You should probably consider a steel peep sight/metal front blade set up if you are going to be knocking the gun around... scopes are pretty sensitive.

[tomtomz]

If you are protecting livestock from coyotes, I don't think
the 223 is a good choice.

[petemi]

If you are protecting livestock from coyotes, I don't think
the 223 is a good choice.

 

Hoyt, you bring back memories of the dogs jumping on the back of your snowshoes or a beaver cutting coming up through them and dumping you on your face in that same three feet of snow.  The ground's too far down to push off of so ya lay there wallowing like a beached whale while the dogs are expressing their love and devotion by jumping on you and licking your face.  Ya don't have to be nuts, but it helps

Pete

[hoytcanon]

If you are protecting livestock from coyotes, I don't think
the 223 is a good choice.

 

Hoyt, you bring back memories of the dogs jumping on the back of your snowshoes or a beaver cutting coming up through them and dumping you on your face in that same three feet of snow.  The ground's too far down to push off of so ya lay there wallowing like a beached whale while the dogs are expressing their love and devotion by jumping on you and licking your face.  Ya don't have to be nuts, but it helps

Pete

BTDT... agreed! 

[gcrank1]

Try as I might, I just cant bring myself to abuse my shootin' irons by tossing them around hap-hazard or lettin' em bounce around loose, regardless of the barrel length.......
I have the 20" UV 22 Mag HB and it is plenty 'handi' enough, but 22" wouldnt bother me. The 24" UH 45-70 is a nice length/balance, I think.
I dont hunt from in vehicles, so open a door and slide that puppy out of a padded case, load & go.

[FPH]

Have a fried that loves the .223.  He swears by the 22" barrel.......all his are bolt guns.

[tomtomz]

Likely you'll want a weapon with a milder report, unless you want to stampede the livestock.

Every 223 I've heard is unnaturally loud for the scant knockdown power and short range.

Now if you want to get a good distance away from the livestock to evaporate a coyote which is
to either side of your herd, you'll need to bring enough gun.

I don't expect others to agree, but I'm a cattleman and figure the OP is in the same boat as I am.
223 doesn't cut it.

[FPH]

Likely you'll want a weapon with a milder report, unless you want to stampede the livestock.

Every 223 I've heard ihs unnaturally loud for the scant knockdown power and short range.

Now if you want to get a good distance away from the livestock to evaporate a coyote which is
to either side of your herd, you'll need to bring enough gun.

I don't expect others to agree, but I'm a cattleman and figure the OP is in the same boat as I am.
223 doesn't cut it.

Out of curiosity, what do you recommend?

Likely you'll want a weapon with a milder report, unless you want to stampede the livestock.

Every 223 I've heard is unnaturally loud for the scant knockdown power and short range.

Now if you want to get a good distance away from the livestock to evaporate a coyote which is
to either side of your herd, you'll need to bring enough gun.

I don't expect others to agree, but I'm a cattleman and figure the OP is in the same boat as I am.
223 doesn't cut it.

Likely you'll want a weapon with a milder report, unless you want to stampede the livestock.

Every 223 I've heard is unnaturally loud for the scant knockdown power and short range.

Now if you want to get a good distance away from the livestock to evaporate a coyote which is
to either side of your herd, you'll need to bring enough gun.

I don't expect others to agree, but I'm a cattleman and figure the OP is in the same boat as I am.
223 doesn't cut it.

[FPH]

My buddy uses a .30 carbine.

[tomtomz]

I like the 22-250 Handi Rifle as my varminter, which takes a beating in the truck or on the ATV.
I have it in a Handi rifle, in a 98 Mauser conversion, and in a Winchester model 70.
I check cattle multiple times a day, and often dispatch any coyotes I see.
Since it is a very flat shooter, the distance and ballistic calculations are simple
enough for me. I make do with a MILDOT reticle and estimate distance with that.

The 22-250 handi rifle performs well in that range between 250 and 500 yards. 
I also use a 257 Weatherby when I am out looking for coyotes and know that spendy
weapon won't receive a beating. But normally it is in the gun safe.
I'll spend a lot of time hunting coyotes in the next two months, before calves drop in March.

I've been known to take the high ground above a canyon meadow where my herd is Wintered,
and take shots beyond 500 yards with my 30/378 Weatherby. That rifle is definitely a specialty
weapon, and I don't recommend it except for that narrow application.

I like the 22-250 for the longer range and simpler ballistics calculations. My buddy likes his 243
for that same reason, and he can drop a coyote well beyond 200 yards with it.  Some of the
guys here are making great shots with the 223, and I can't fault them for choosing a
weapon that they can shoot well so inexpensively. I try to be far away from my herd
when I shoot, and the 22-250 allows for that extra distance.

I make my living this way, and the 22-250 Handi has proven itself to be indispensable
in the niche I use it in, which is tending a herd of skittish, pregnant cows.

[FPH]

Thanks

[LaOtto222]

I have an Ultra 223 so it is a 24" bull barrel (it is in my avatar). It is a great looking gun and shoots good too....but I still prefer a lite weight gun for most applications. The heavy one is good off a bench or in a PD field where you set up and do your shooting from the same place. However, for a gun that is to be carried afield or in the tractor/truck, short and light are the way to go, in my opinion. A 24" barrel compared to a 20" in a 223 will not give up much velocity. Roger hunts from a snow mobile or a 4 wheeler and can carry a longer, heaver gun and takes shots at the extreme edge. When you are inside a tractor cab or truck, getting out a shorty is much easier and light weight is important if you are trecking all over. As far as is a 223 big enough, that is a mater of opinion. A 223 is big enough to kill a man, so it is big enough to kill a deer or a coyote. Just keep the range reasonable (under 300 yards for coyotes), use the right bullet and put it where it counts and it will do a good job. Remember trigger time is your friend, the more you use it, the better you are going to get with it. The 223 is about as cheap as it gets for shooting so trigger time is cheaper than most.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[hoytcanon]

For most coyotes (not taking cattle into consideration) we use the .223 (1:9) with 68 gr BTHP's (often shorties, when we are hiking)... BUT when we just gotta reach out there and plant em' we use a max load of Varget for the 7mm-08 with the 120 NBT... it is very flat, very accurate and carries alot of energy at all conceivable distances (400 yards)... even at 400 yards, they kinda just "turtle." We have one platform stand that watches a number of bottlenecks between woodlots and grown over fields... usually the closest shot is 175 yards and the longest is 450 yards, when the coyotes are plentiful (this year) it is not uncommon to get 6-8 shots on a morning or evening hunt... the 7mm-08/120 NBT has proven itself on that stand. I am just in the process of putting together a 6.5mm-08 AI for this exact type of situation... I think it would suit TomTomz also.

[FPH]

After talking to my friend, I was wrong.  He uses a .30 carbine for deer in his alfalfa fields, and a .223 on yotes.

[tacklebury]

If you reload, try other powders.  My Reloader7 loads are a lot quieter than any factory .223 I have tried and with 55 gr. Ballistic Tips, it shoots .31" out of the 24" bull barrel.   
 

[tomtomz]

Tackleberry, you're on to something with quieter handloads.

[Brian P.]

My hvy bbl 223 will get cut down to 19".  Other than sight radius, I'd personally prefer a short heavy bbl than a long std bbl if the same overall weight.

[rockshooter]

I cut my heavy bbl .223 down to 16 1/8" and put receiver sights on the rear and a gold post on the front. After shortening the stock a bit and straightening the grip, I carry it in my truck in a 32" shotgun bbl case. Very handy to use, but it is for sure loud.
Loren

[tomtomz]

Loud as a Ruger Mini 14? Those are much louder than the Handi-rifle.

[Couger]

Likely you'll want a weapon with a milder report .....

I don't expect others to agree, but I'm a cattleman and figure the OP is in the same boat as I am.  223 doesn't cut it.

Interesting   and  GOOD  comments  TTZ!
 
BARREL  LENGTHS?   I like rifle barrels usually the way the cartridge shot in them was designed!  Which should translate to "longish barrels!"
 
In a .223 the round can excel from 20 to 24 inches depending on the shooter and his purpose.
 
As for TomTom's comments, I'm not a farmer nor rancher, but I wonder what he thinks about quieter rounds like the .22WMR?  .22 Hornet or KHornet?  or even the .218 Bee?
 
I have a 'Bee' in the Handi, and love it!  Altho  still learning its habits and idiosyncrasies. 

[tomtomz]

I like the 218 BEE as a P-Dog round with good ballistics and mild report and little recoil.

I've yet to use the others.  Coyotes ar easily killed or wounded fatally. Either way,  a calf is saved.