8X57 on Backburner... 6.5mm on the table.

[hoytcanon]

Hello folks, I am looking to do a 6.5mm of some sort... either a rebore/rechamber or a stub. I am highly partial to the 6.5-08, since I am shooting .243, 7mm-08 and .308 now (it just makes sense and fits so cleanly) but 6.5-284 is in there for consideration. I copied this blurb from "ibgp3" on Dinny's Grendel thread;

On the 6.5:


IMHO
The TCU (parent case .223) Does not give up much to the Grendel in "Handi range".
The Creedmoor (parent case 250 Savage) Can outreach the Grendel, but in Handi range?
The Creedmoor loses it's advantage over the 260 in a single shot.
If you have a Hornet barrel cut to 6.5 it should make a very light sweet Grendel.
If you have a .223 barrel cut to 6.5 the TCU is a natural.
...a 22-250 makes a Creedmoor
...and a .243 for a 260.
So what extra barrels you got in the closet?
So, I am looking for thoughts and advice on how best to go about a 6.5mm-08 on the SB2 platform???
 

[gendoc]

hoytcanon, J2 built J3 a grendel last year froma hornet superlite. its exceptional and it performs quite well with the military designed bore and dimentions cord'n to alexander / Pohjoispaa perspective fora accumlitive outreach firearm........................
 

[hoytcanon]

hoytcanon, J2 built J3 a grendel last year froma hornet superlite. its exceptional and it performs quite well with the military designed bore and dimentions cord'n to alexander / Pohjoispaa perspective fora accumlitive outreach firearm........................

Hey John... I can usually decipher the "swamp talk" but uhhhhh.... can you help me out, even if you gotta use "frenglish."

[gendoc]

hey its even rimless !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! easily understandable

[hoytcanon]

hey its even rimless !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! easily understandable

Hold the phone! I thought you were the primary rep for "rimmed" cartridges??? I would have expected you to jump in with the argument for a 6.5-.30/30 round... and the info on how best to "git r' dun son."

[cwlongshot]

I like the 6.5/264 caliber alot myself. I do not have a Handi so chambered. I do have a 6.5x63 in a Mauser. I built it with a 270 case instead of a '06 case. Some call it sumantics and I would agree to a point.

I used a Shillen barrel and man or man will she shoot!! My very first starting load of 4350 powder and a 120g Ballistic tip shot sub 1 MOA at 200 yards for three different shooters BEFORE COMPLETE BARREL BREAK IN!!!!

I have shot some great groups with AMax bullets as well as the ballistic tips.

For a good selection in a handi... Dinny likes the Grendel, now John has added a good report via his boys...  I would start there with considerations. Most know I like rims for my handi's so I would also look to go with a good rimmed case. Maybe a 6.5JDJ#2 on a 307 win case. The 6.5 on a 444 would be another... I dont think any substatial preformace gain would be acheived.

LOL, nope John like his rimless flavors! I prefer my handi calibers rimmed.   Just don't read his calibers list in his signature.

CW

[gendoc]

oh-no !!! u got it backards......my most accurate shooters are rimless, i never said i perferd rimmed.
i have both and like both.. but when tha dollar hits tha table.......rimless for me and my boys

[petemi]

I thought I read something a little while ago that NATO and the U.S. Military are looking long and hard at a 6.5 to replace the 5.56.  Makes sense to me.

Pete

[hoytcanon]

oh-no !!! u got it backards......my most accurate shooters are rimless, i never said i perferd rimmed.
i have both and like both.. but when tha dollar hits tha table.......rimless for me and my boys

I think I got confused in your debates with CW on rimmed vs rimless... many apologies... I guess I could have just checked your caliber tagline... but I didn't think of that before hitting "enter." OK, so let's say that I want to do the 6.5-08... what would be the best base barrel? .243??? (I have a Krieger 6.5mm 1:8.5" on hold for a stub, as we speak)... but might consider a rebore if it is easier (obviously cheaper). I will buy a new donor gun for the project.   

[gcrank1]

Swedes, Norwosgans and Japs liked 'em jus fine.......
I gotta get that ol' Carcano out, 25yrs ago I was getting about 1 1/2" groups  at 100yd prone with open sights (back when I could see). That little Italian 6.5 x 52 was almost a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5 x 54 that got such rave reviews even in Africa with 160gr. bullets.

[gendoc]

cord'n to AG, you can't get there froma .243..  i need to research this with my competent marine corp
armorer. he is at his best today in D.C. for his orders for april.... hopefully his last tour of 21 years.
he needs to stay home !!!!!!!!!!!!! but hesa MARINE    there's no tell'n

[petemi]

I had a 6.5 Carcano for a while before I started reloading.  I sold it.  Norma was eating me up

Pete

[quickdtoo]

My 260 Rem(AKA 6.5-08) Handi was a 243 Superlight, rebored and necked by Wayne York of Oregunsmithing, it's a shooter.  Be aware that the 243 Superlight with sights wouldn't be a good choice if it's like mine, the WGOS barrel sight mounting holes are .200" deep!  I used my slick barrels for donors for the 260 and the 9.3x62 for that reason.

Thanks John, I'ma firm believer in rimless rounds too, my first turn in the barrel with FTFs on a Handi was with a deep rim cut on my 45-70 Ultra Hunter, no fun, curing FTFs on a rimless chambering is easy in comparison. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,203614.msg1099060066.html#msg1099060066

[SEK_22Hornet]

Ok - isn't the 6.5'08 essentailly the same as the 260 Remington? That would give you factory ammo and readily available off the shelf dies.  My wife just bought a sweet little Ruger M77 Compact in 260 and we are both anxious to see how it shoots. I have a couple 6.5 Arisaka cut off barrels laying around -- been making me feel like I need to look at those and see if they would be suitable for a 260 Rem stub for my Handi.

[hoytcanon]

Ok - isn't the 6.5'08 essentailly the same as the 260 Remington? That would give you factory ammo and readily available off the shelf dies.  My wife just bought a sweet little Ruger M77 Compact in 260 and we are both anxious to see how it shoots. I have a couple 6.5 Arisaka cut off barrels laying around -- been making me feel like I need to look at those and see if they would be suitable for a 260 Rem stub for my Handi.

Essentially we are talking about the .260... I will probably go AI right from the start.
Quick... I would be inclined to rebore a 24" heavy .243, I think for this round whether 6.5-08 or .260 AI.

[RPRNY]

.260/6.5-08 because it's plenty hot while the 6.5-284 is just a barrel burner and, frankly, beyond the accuracy tuning of a Handi IMHO. As to the other 6.5 family, if not the .260, then I would stick to the Swede. In a Handi you can load it hotter than any of the standardized 6.5 cartridges and, I would argue, at least as hot as the .260 anyway. 6.5x57, 6.5-06 also very interesting. If not .260 or the Swede then 6.5-06 just because of the ready availability of brass (although again, too much powder for rifle methinks).

I do however like the 6.5/30-30 because you can load it to CIP Swede levels in the Handi, but I am perfectly willing to accept one's preference for a rimless cartridge. In a project like this where you determine the chamber size and custom work the extractor, it will undoubtedly do very well.


BTW, don't abandon your 8x57 project. I recently took my Swedish and Persian Mauser sporters on a hog hunt in TX and while I am a partisan of the Swede, the Persian loaded with Barnes TSX  200 gr over a somewhat moderate load of Varget was awesome. The long throat on the military Mauser is suited to the longer Barnes bullet and while the 20" barrel still allows for some pyrotechnics, it was not a blinding experience. Dropped a 130lb boar with a night shot at 95 yards that just removed a piece of neck and vertebrae as neatly as can be. I also took a little 38 lb piglet with the 140gr 6.5 from the Swede DRT, but I love that .32 cal 200 gr bullet in the 8x57.

[gcrank1]

Pete, that WWII bringback Carcano came out of the factory when captured, never had a factory load through it. My Dad's friend liberated it hisself and gifted it to Dad who cut the perfect olivewood orig. stock down and had a guy put open sporting sights on  , then never shot it. I checked the Norma ammo way back, went into shock even then, and bought dies. It liked .264 129gr. Hornadys and 140gr. Sierra (?) in that gain twist 18"ish carbine barrel back then. I like the bullet selection for 6.5s way over that for our .25cal.'s. Then there are the Magnificent 7's............

[8uck5nort]

Go with a 22-250 rebore and rechamber to 6.5x55 swede with a barrel twist specified to your liking. The grandaddy of the 6.5's. They use it on moose in the Norwegian countries so it is more than capable. Once my 8x57 is done I am seriously considering a lovely swede in a blonde stock. Don't give up on that 8mm mauser. Just may take a while that is all.
Good Luck on you projects.
 

[hoytcanon]

Go with a 22-250 rebore and rechamber to 6.5x55 swede with a barrel twist specified to your liking. The grandaddy of the 6.5's. They use it on moose in the Norwegian countries so it is more than capable. Once my 8x57 is done I am seriously considering a lovely swede in a blonde stock. Don't give up on that 8mm mauser. Just may take a while that is all.
Good Luck on you projects.

For 8uck5nort and RPRNY... I am definitely NOT shelving the 8X57 project... just prioritizing. This 6.5mm is gonna get shot alot more and winter is a great time to work on it up here... the 8X57 is going to be a Mannlicher and so the stock is in the works now... metal work on the 6.5 in the mean time... I do like the Swede, but the .260 Rem fits very well in my set of .223 Rem, .243 Win, (.260 Rem ), 7mm-08 Rem and .308 Win... loads are 60, 90, 120, 140, 168 respectively... I love the symmetry! It has been suggested to shoot the crap out of them and then AI the whole lot... I like that. So again, for a rebore, it appears to me from the schematics the .243 dimensions will work... Gendoc says "nay" and Quick says "yeah." I think so but??? Anyone??? I have both options all lined up but would vastly prefer the rebore to the stub ($$$). Since I am buying a new gun for the donor, I can buy it in any caliber, so if .22/250 is a better way to go, I can get it in a 24" heavy barrel also.

[fullup3]

Though not a Handi, I just finished building myself a new short, easy to handle deer rifle in .260 on a Savage action.  I am loading 120 grain Barnes TTSX and have shot two very large bucks with it in the last two weeks.  The first one at 170 yds weighed 230 pounds, and he just rolled over.  The second I shot Saturday afternoon at 60yds, and he too just rolled over.  I have shot a .270 win with a 24 inch barrel for years, and this new little .260 has just bumped it for my go to deer rifle.   Here in MS, I shoot a Handi in 35whelen during "primitive weapon season" (haha).    I think the .260 seems to be a hell of a round!

[ibgp3]

FWIW: I had a .260Rem barrel and a 6.5CM barrel for my Savage and I sold the .260


I am really having fun with the 6.5CMR handi's
...rimmed cases made from .303Brit, 30-40Krag, .307Win, .444Marlin and 7x57R
...rimless made from 6mmXS to 30.06
Case capacities range from 49 to 52.5 grains of water (.260 is 53)


Still tuning rifles, cases, bullets and loads; but the rejects are moa.

[hoytcanon]

FWIW: I had a .260Rem barrel and a 6.5CM barrel for my Savage and I sold the .260

I am really having fun with the 6.5CMR handi's
...rimmed cases made from .303Brit, 30-40Krag, .307Win, .444Marlin and 7x57R
...rimless made from 6mmXS to 30.06
Case capacities range from 49 to 52.5 grains of water (.260 is 53)

Still tuning rifles, cases, bullets and loads; but the rejects are moa.

So you are liking the 6.5's...

What was the reason you ditched your .260? Would AI have made a difference?

Sounds like you have done a number of 6.5's... how did you get there, stubs or rebores? If you rebored which barrels are you using, which barrel contours? Right now my plan is to use a 24" Heavy in .223, .22/250 or .243... what are your thoughts? I also have a Krieger 6.5 (1:8.5")... and can do the stub... but I am waffling on this a bit because of the cost involved... it would definitely be my most expensive Handi project and I have a couple of bolt action frames that I am working on also.

[Dinny]

There's a blue million different 6.5 options out there. Trust me I have looked long and hard at all of them, I think. My short list, before deciding on the Grendel, included the 6.5 Dreadnought (6.5x225Win), 6.5x30-30, 6.5 TCU, 6.5x307, and the 6.5 BRM. Starting with a 22 Hornet or .223 Rem barrel would allow you to choose any one of the above rebore/rechambers. I have been told that although a 22-250 could be used for a .260, it may best best to completely clean up the chamber area for a rechamber project. I have to agree with ibgp3, the Creedmoor has alot going for it.

Thanks, Dinny

[hoytcanon]

There's a blue million different 6.5 options out there. Trust me I have looked long and hard at all of them, I think. My short list, before deciding on the Grendel, included the 6.5 Dreadnought (6.5x225Win), 6.5x30-30, 6.5 TCU, 6.5x307, and the 6.5 BRM. Starting with a 22 Hornet or .223 Rem barrel would allow you to choose any one of the above rebore/rechambers. I have been told that although a 22-250 could be used for a .260, it may best best to completely clean up the chamber area for a rechamber project. I have to agree with ibgp3, the Creedmoor has alot going for it.

Thanks, Dinny

I looked at every conceivable 6.5mm option also... and shortlisted to 6.5X55 (AI), 6.5-08 (.260 AI), 6.5-284 and 6.5 Creedmoor... the deciding factor for me is that the rest of my 6mm-.30 cal aresenal is .308 based... I agree the Creed is a nice round and can really "stretch its legs" in a Handi platform... But, I have settled on the ought eight... and will probably AI right outta the gate since I am rechambering anyway... I just, this morning, got a line on an LGS sale, where I can get a heavy .223 for $240 new... they only have one, so I have them holding it behind the counter... this will be the platform. What did you end up doing with the Grendel??? I don't think I ever saw the specs or pics... I don't think you are home yet, so pics may not be available.

[Dinny]

The Grendel is waiting for me at home. It will be a few more weeks before I get around to it. Momma and the kids come first.

Your choice is a fine one. It should be good for deer out to 500yds or so.

Thanks, Dinny

[ibgp3]

Dinny did a lot better job of checking out the possibilities than I did.
I just got lucky and bought a DPMS LR6.5 Creedmoor. Best rifle I ever fired.


OCW theory is that the shockwave resonates back and forth in the barrel, and if the bullet and the shockwave get to the muzzle at the same time, accuracy suffers. The .260 and the CM were identical barrels except for the chamber. Everything works in the CM and the best in the .260 was not as good.
Dan Newberry would probably say I was loading to the scatter spot in the .260
Since the difference in capacity is .5grain, "bye bye .260"
I would expect 260AI to be different.


As I became a 6.5CM fan I had 2 Handi's coming out of the pipeline.
One had been stubbed at D&T with an 18" Shilen Barrel and chambered in a short 6.5TCU to use Maxi brass. It was definitely a shooter, but the brass is a b***h to make.
The other was a .223 bull that was rebored to 6.5 with no chamber work. I planned to throat it and  make it a 6.5x223.
I decided to go CM with both and had them chambered and rimmed for a .444 rim.


The stub cost me almost as much as the LR6.5.
....but they fit in different spots. The Handi is small and light and...handy.
The LR is not, not, and...not.


There are some awesome bullets available in 6.5 that call for less than 1:7" twist.
http://www.gsgroup.co.za/264109SP182.html
I had the rebore done 1:7.5"
I was told that Shilen didn't come any Faster than 1:8"
...so the 109gr is the biggest of their bullets I can shoot.
I haven't verified it yet, but it books @3100fps and BC of .571. 
...(worth getting the right twist.)


I'm liking the 6.5CM's.
I have a 6.5x55 that is third hand from Tim and Dinny.
...I never got excited about it.
I have a 6.5 Grendel AR. I got it for more reach than a 5.56mm
....at this point I would say that it has a better reach, not more.


My next question is can I make the 6.5CM Handi reach out like Sourdough does with the 30-06?
...but first some tuning.

[hex]

I looked at every conceivable 6.5mm option also... and shortlisted to 6.5X55 (AI), 6.5-08 (.260 AI), 6.5-284 and 6.5 Creedmoor... the deciding factor for me is that the rest of my 6mm-.30 cal aresenal is .308 based... I agree the Creed is a nice round and can really "stretch its legs" in a Handi platform... But, I have settled on the ought eight... and will probably AI right outta the gate since I am rechambering anyway... I just, this morning, got a line on an LGS sale, where I can get a heavy .223 for $240 new... they only have one, so I have them holding it behind the counter... this will be the platform. What did you end up doing with the Grendel??? I don't think I ever saw the specs or pics... I don't think you are home yet, so pics may not be available.

My 2 cents would be for the 6.5-284. I know I'm pondering having a barrel made with it. The 284 wildcats are eventually the same as the -06 wildcats only in the shorter case. I think some of people have even taken the 284 case to a 416 using Ackley 40 degree shoulder.

[OldSchoolRanger]

The Grendel is waiting for me at home. It will be a few more weeks before I get around to it. Momma and the kids come first.

Your choice is a fine one. It should be good for deer out to 500yds or so.

Thanks, Dinny

You got your priorities right!  We can wait.

[hoytcanon]

So, I picked up the 24" heavy barrel .223 today... this is the base for my 6.5-08 AI (.260 Rem AI) rechamber/rebore. The reamer is on its way... at the same time I decided to rechamber two .223 barrels to AI... so that reamer ps on the way also. The smith tells me it will only be a week for the turn around... so hopefully will actually be shooting sooner than I thought... thanks for any and all input.

[Dinny]

Don't forget to purchase a .308 extractor, Numrich's should have them. It may be easier to replace the one you have rather than trying to cut it to fit.

Thanks, Dinny