Author Topic: 7mm/08  (Read 2205 times)

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Offline huntwithme2

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7mm/08
« on: January 03, 2013, 10:14:28 AM »
  my question is    i am planning to buy left handed tikka in 7mm/08.  does anyone have any experence in using 120 balistic tips on deer instead of the 140's.  i like the little more speed.
i handload
thanks
larry

Offline yooper77

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 10:54:13 AM »
I picked up some Nosler 120 grain solid base and ballistic tips for my Weatherby Mark V Sporter in 7mm-08 Remington. My plan is making a reduced load for my daughter using H-4895 posted on Hodgdon.com load data.

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf


The Nosler 120 grain solid base and ballistic tips perform well out of the pistol barrels chambered in 7X30 waters for years and to date. I consider them better suited for reduced velocity even though they can be pushed too limits.

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Offline bigswede

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 11:28:56 PM »
In my experience smaller, faster bullets equal more meat loss.  Just something to think about.  Also you should consider bigger bullets, this holds true very well with the 7mm bullets, have a higher BC and will carry more energy and lose less trajectory at greater distances than there smaller counterparts.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 06:04:04 PM »
Get over the need for speed. Stick with the 140s, they always work.


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Offline Singlebarrel

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 04:33:27 PM »
I quit using ballistic tips on deer years ago.  They tear up too much meat. 
 
 

Offline scootrd

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 05:23:15 PM »
Get over the need for speed. Stick with the 140s, they always work.

+1
It's been my experience with my 7mm-08, 140 Core-Lokt soft points , (or the like) traveling at medium velocities inside 200 yards  provide deep penetration, good expansion, and expel most of their energy within the deer. One of my hunting buddies uses the 140 fusions with much success.

Others mileage may very.
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Offline D Fischer

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 05:44:01 PM »
I've never owned a 7mm-08 but have owned a couple 7x57's. They are like twins! In a modern rifle, the 7x57 will compare to the 7mm-08 as the 6mm compares to the 243. What one will do, so will the other. The bullet I liked best in my 7x57's was the 154gr Hornady RN. The spire point wouldn't shoot well from my rifles and the RN version shot great. I don't chase speed.

Offline deerandduck

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 02:05:15 AM »
I shoot 120 gr Sierra in my Tikka, that's what the sierra guys recommend for these AL deer.  However, I do shot some 140 Sierra in my other 7mm-08. 
I agree with the other comments, you don't need all that much speed for the 7mm-08 to work beautifully.  Around 2600 - 2800 is sufficient for anything. 
I have used the 150 BT in my 308 but I'm always concerned of the "blow-up" possibility (even if it is only in my mind).  Generally just use the cheaper Sierras.  They just WORK.
 
thanks,
Deerandduck

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 04:50:01 AM »
I have a 1909 Argentine Mauser barreled to 7X57 with which I've shot a few deer and have watched other people shoot a few deer with it, I think eleven total. For hunting, I load it with 120-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2,930 fps (since it does not shoot the 140's accurately). Two deer were  between 300 and 350 yards, one was 390 yards, and the rest were closer (a laser rangefinder was used). The 120-grain bullets all made exit holes, but the deer were does, not large bucks. The Nosler on-line catalog shows the 120-grain Ballistic Tip to be a hunting bullet, not a varmint bullet, so it must be designed for deer.

Offline scootrd

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 06:04:23 AM »
Here is an excellent write up on 7mm-08 bullet selections for game sizes , desired hunting distances,  and environmental conditions.

Remington’s 120 grain hollow point
is designed for varmint hunting but is adequate for game as heavy as 40kg (90lb). 
The 140 grain Core-Lokt load has a jaded history.  Initial velocities for this load were very low and produced poor case neck to chamber obturation along with excessive powder fouling at the neck and throat area of rifles. The compacted powder residues raised pressures while destroying accuracy. Velocity was in the region of 2650 to 2750fps and with the extremely poor BC of .390, the Core-Lokt load did not run true to the advertising claim that the 7mm08 produced superior ballistics to the .308.
 
 The current 140 grain Core-Lokt load achieves a velocity of around 2800fps in 22” barrels, slightly but insignificantly lower than 24” test barrel velocities.   While its BC may be poor, performance on game out to moderate ranges is excellent. For hunters who seldom take shots beyond 200 yards, the Core-Lokt is inexpensive yet highly effective, producing both broad wounding and reasonably deep penetration with minimal risk of jacket core separation.
 
 The more recently introduced 140 grain Accutip is quite different to any former Remington loadings. Remington made an effort to ensure this load achieved maximum velocities along with desirable longer range performance. The only downside is that this load is terribly expensive for U.S hunters, let alone export countries where one packet of Accutip ammunition can cost the same as a weeks groceries for a single man.
 
 At close ranges, the Accutip (which is most likely a re-branded SST), produces immensely traumatic wounding on medium game. This is not an Elk bullet, doing its best work on all game up to weights of around 80kg (180lb).  Penetration is fair at close ranges although retained bullet weights tend to be lower than 50%.  At longer ranges, the Accutip can suffer jacket core separation but at such ranges (250 yards and beyond), this behavior is not usually detrimental to wounding as the bullet fragments are large and lethal.  From a velocity of 2840fps, the Accutip does its best work inside 250 yards (2400fps).  Beyond this range, the bullet design and power of the 7mm08 limit wounding although kills are normally clean, even if delayed. Performance is reduced further at 375 yards or 2200fps.
 
 Federal have really gotten behind the 7mm08 in recent years and now produce several useful loads.  These include the 140 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at 2800fps, the 140 grain Accubond at 2800fps, the 140 grain partition at 2800fps, the 140 grain Barnes TSX at 2820fps, the 140 grain Fusion at 2800fps and finally, the 150 grain Speer Hotcor at 2650fps. For unknown reasons, all of these loads achieve velocities faster than the above advertised specifications regardless of the fact each were developed in a 24” test barrel.  From typical 22” barreled sporting rifles, Federal’s 140 grain loads achieve 2840fps while the Hotcor achieves an outstanding 2750fps.  None give excessive pressure and all have the potential to produce outstanding accuracy in suitably tuned rifles.
 
 The 140 grain Ballistic Tip is, as can be expected, a general purpose open country load. Wounding is thorough and violent at closer ranges, killing is clean but in no way spectacular. For smaller species of Whitetail and other game of this size, the BT is an ‘adequate’ performer out to ranges of 350 yards.  On small but tough animals such as pigs, the BT can be quite shallow penetrating and wounding limited by the power of this cartridge.  It should be noted that Nosler’s original ideal bullet design was the Partition, the Solid base and later the Ballistic Tip created to meet trends, rather than performance orientation.
 
 The Accubond is another humble performer producing wide internal wounding and clean killing but with relatively deep penetration.  Hunters should not expect exceptionally deep penetration with this bullet as it has a very low SD. As a medium game bullet, the AB is a good all-rounder.
 
 The 140 grain 7mm Partition is much like the Accubond, both produce a wide wound regardless of the focus towards optimum controlled expansion within each design. Again, a low SD as a result of the 140 grain 7mm bullet weight dictates that for best performance, the Partition and Accubond do their best work on game weighing up to 80kg (180lb).  Both bullets are adequate for game up to 150kg (330lb) but this weight should be considered a maximum.   The Accubond and Partition often produce surprising good performance at lower velocities of 2200fps or 300-350 yards providing game are not too lean.
 
 The stoutest bullets in the Federal line of ammunition are the 140 grain Barnes TSX and the 140 grain Fusion loading. The Fusion bullet is a very odd, almost rushed design. At close ranges upon impact, the Fusion will often fail to impart any measure of hydrostatic shock and game can appear quite unaffected by well placed shots. After impact on medium game, the bullet expands, produces a quite normal wound channel (similar to other 7mm 140 grain bullets) while gradually breaking down until very little is left of the original projectile.  The broken off fragments tend to be small, often less than 1mm (40 thou) in diameter. To this end, the Fusion is neither a fast killing or deep penetrating projectile.
 
 The 140 grain TSX is undoubtedly a deep penetrating projectile, able to take a 1200lb animal broadside, although, such a practice should be considered unethical due to the small diameter of the wound.  Nevertheless, this bullet is the best choice in the 7mm08 for tough game weighing between 90 and 320kg (200-700lb).
 
 On lighter medium game, the TSX is a little too stout for all around work.  This does not mean that the Barnes does not readily expand, to the contrary, wounding through vitals is ideal. The only problem with using this projectile on lighter game is that the trauma does not also occur immediately upon impact or during exit wounding.  Kills at impact velocities below 2600fps and especially below 2400fps can be very slow as a result.  If the TSX is to be used on lighter medium game, bullets should be placed to break major bones and locomotive muscles in order to effect immediate incapacitation.
 
 Federal’s heavy weight load for the 7mm08 utilizes a proprietary 150 grain Speer Hotcor bullet with a cannelure, a design feature which is not normally available to hand loaders. This is one very good medium game loading. The Speer opens up quickly on impact, produces a wide wound channel before expansion is arrested by the cannelure. Penetration is slightly better than the Fusion load which costs twice the price of the budget branded Hotcor loading and is on par with the Partition and Accubond loads.
 
 Winchester produces two loads for the 7mm08, the 140 grain Power Point at 2800fps and the 140 grain Ballistic Silvertip at 2770fps. Both are humble performers offering rapid expansion but limited penetration.
 
 Hornady currently list two Superformance loads.  These include the 139 grain SST at 2950fps and the 139 grain GMX at 2910fps.  Like the former Light Magnum loadings, the Superformance ammunition gives ‘true to advertised’ velocities in 24” barrels.   As is almost always the case, shorter barrels lose 35fps per inch of barrel removed.  In standard 22” sporter barrels, the SST at 2890 is slightly faster than Federal loads and also slightly faster than can normally be achieved with hand loads.
 
 The 139 grain SST is very hard hitting out to 250 yards (2400fps), producing a wide, violent wound. Penetration is reasonably good at impact velocities above 2600fps (150 yards) due to the swaging/forming a uniform mushroom, although the 139 grain SST is unsuitable for tail on shots on light bodied game.  At longer ranges, the 7mm 139 grain SST  projectile is prone to suffer jacket core separation however cross body and quartering wounding is usually more than adequate. 

The GMX is, like the Barnes TSX, is better suited to heavier animals above 90kg (200lb)  as opposed to all around use, simply because on light game, even though wounding can be broad, the delay in killing can lead to difficulty tracking dead run game.

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm-08+Remington.html
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Offline mannyrock

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 10:25:26 AM »
Huntwithme,
 
   I am sorry to say that you are risking wounding a losing a deer, because you think you want a little more speed.   The 140 grain Core-Lokt 7-08 is a proven deer slayer, and can kill one thoroughly dead as far as you can shoot.  At 2,800 fps, you certainly don't need anything faster .  This is the bullet weight that this cartridge was engineered to shoot for big game hunting.
 
    Just as a general point, this is my biggest disappointment with many hunters who handload.  At some point, they seem to get caught up in meanless numbers that they see in reloading manuals and become fixated on them, ignoring common sense and proven performance in the field.  The "handloading" experiment becomes an end in itself, instead of a tool to create the best game round.
 
   I hope you will rethink this. 
 
  Best of Luck, Mannyrock
 
 

Offline eastbank

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 11:58:49 AM »
i shoot a rem 700sps left hand in 7-08 rem with 120 gr nosler BT,s with 43 grs varget and its scary accurte and a good killer,i shoot them in the lungs and they go down. eastbank.

Offline IOWA DON

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 02:23:55 PM »
HUNTWITHME2 - I looked at Nosler's loading data and guess you might get 3,000 fps with the 120-grain bullet and 2,750 fps with the 140-grain bullet. If this is not correct, the results would be off some. I used the ballistic coefficients for the Nosler Ballistic Tips in my ballistics program for a comparison between the two bullets out to 400 yards. I assume if you were going to shoot farther than that a fast magnum caliber might be a better choice. The 140-grain bullet has a remaining energy of 1,290 foot-pounds at 400 yards whereas the 120-grain bullet has only 1,213 foot-pounds, both OK for a deer. The 140-grain bullet has a remaining velocity of 2,037 fps at 400 yards whereas the 120-grain bullet travels at 2,134 fps. The extra remaining velocity might be a slight advantage as Nosler says their bullets are only designed to expand down to 1,900 fps and 2,037 fps is getting fairly close to that minimum velocity. Deflection in a 10-mph wind at 400 yards is 12.5 inches for the 140-grain bullet and 13.2 inches for the 120-grain bullet, not a significant difference. Given a maximum permitted rise above the line of sight of 3.0 inches, the 140-grain bullet can be sighted in for 235 yards whereas the 120-grain bullet can be sighted in for 250-yards. So sighted in the 140-grain bullet is 5.4 inches low at 300 yards and 19.8 inches low at 400 yards whereas the 120-grain bullet is 3.6 inches low at 300 yards and 15.9 inches low at 400 yards. Assuming equal accuracy, I would use the 120-grain bullet. I see your address as New Mexico and would guess you might see coyotes while deer hunting and I think the slightly flatter trajectory and slightly higher velocity for expanding bullets at long range to be an advantage for them, and also deer, and think the heavier bullet would only be an advantage for shooting a deer from a bad angle which I don't think one should do anyway. - DON

Offline bubba

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 12:24:03 AM »
IMHO, if you want to use a faster lighter bullet, look at a good bullet like a partition.  Otherwise the damage you do will be bad if you want to eat the deer.  I got into this with the 25-06.  I had to go to a nosler partition to keep the bullet together and have a good effective kill.   I switched from the 25-06 to the 7-08 because of this. I load and shoot a 145 speer bullet.  2700 fps and deer pile up.  Faster is not necessarily better.  If you do not mind spending twice as much on bullets, your faster bullet will be fine. 
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 01:56:19 AM »
the 120 bt is a bit stouter constructed bullet then most bts are. It was designed for handgun silouttte shooting and was made to hold together a bit better to knock down steel. Ive used it even in the 7mag on deer and found it no more destructive then any other bullet ive used in it. Problem for me has been more toward accuracy. I ran it in a couple 280s and a couple 7mags and even tried it in the stw but accuracy was only there in one of the 7mags i tried. the rest of them just didnt shoot it well enough. the 140 and 150 bts seem a bit easier to get accuracy out of. Could be again because of the thicker jacket or just the fact that its a bit light and short and harder to stabliize.
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Offline RevJim

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 04:09:57 AM »
 I shot an exotic sheep ( Texas Dall) right at 200yds  with a 7mm08 and using the LightMag 139sst ammo. It worked swell, found the bullet under the off side skin. it was starting to fragment, but was otherwise all in one wad. I didn't get the impression it would be a good elk bullet, but for deer it was a good one. Lots of fellows here in Utah load the 120 Ballistic tip for antelope/deer and really like it. I also used the similar 260 with a 129gr Hornady sp, and it was a good killer on Axis deer (mule deer sized) and a Mouflan, though not spectacular. I later had that 260 converted to 6.5/284 and used the 120 BT and 125 Partition exclusively, but that is in 25/06 territory. I got the impression the 7mm/08 and .260 were just solid killers, but not to expect their legs to go limp with heart/lung shots. I no longer have either one, but I enjoyed the experience. Go crazy, test them out, have a ball. :D

Offline 1sourdough

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2013, 11:21:34 AM »
 I had been out of the 7mm-08 clambering for a while. I thought about selling my dies,brass & trading off some ammo. Instead I went and ordered another 7mm-08. I wanted something light, short, & maneuverable. That lead me to a Browning X-Bolt 'Micro-Hunter' with A 20" barrel.


  I already have A 284 Winchester and a good supply of 7mm bullets. Anyhow, looking forward to setting it up. I think some Talley lightweight integrated bases/rings would be nice.
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Offline oneoldsap

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Re: 7mm/08
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2013, 04:49:02 PM »
                      I use the Speer 145 over a stout load of W-760 . I've taken a half dozen whitetails with this load , all were DRT not even one step . The only one I recovered took out 10" of spine , and was still wearing it's jacket and weighed 77 gr. . You make that shot with a Sierra and you will find schrapnel , and a lot less penetration !