Author Topic: OAL on a 243 (Read 1226 times)

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **on:** January 04, 2013, 06:02:34 AM »

Just got a 243 put together , reloaded some rounds for it. started the OAL long to find the lands only trouble ws its .100 longer then the max listed ...right now i have them at 2.8 where max is listed as 2.71... i hit the lands and then seated .02 less ,this is a new barrel and has never been fired( just a fyi)
question i have is whats the OAL on your handi 243?

should I leave them long or seat to max OAL listed ,

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:04:23 AM »

2.045 for the case , 2.650 for the 70 gr bullet , 2.640 for the 75 gr bullet , 2.600 for the 80 gr bullet, 2.640 for the 87 gr bullet , 2.630 for the 100 gr bullet as noted in the hornady reloading manual

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:07:35 AM »

thats for the case length. im refering to loaded rounds, Beleave I am .02 from the lands and want to know if thats going to be cool or if i need to stuff um in more like the listing for Over all length

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:10:26 AM »

they are listed after case length as to bullets used .

44 Man · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:21:18 AM »

I would go a little more off the lands, .02 does not give the bullet much 'run up' before it hits the lands to keep pressures down. Although I don't have a .243 (yet) I have always just loaded my handi's to the reloading book's max listed and have had great accuracy from them. I like 'no fuss' reloading best! I'd try loading to book length first and see how it shoots, then you might want to work out a little and see what happens. Hope she is a good shooter for you. 44 Man

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:24:22 AM »

I alway when possible use a factory round to set OAL. at first . The factory has worked out the best OAL in most cases . You just need to find a factory round loaded with same or like bullet.

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:29:44 AM »

it is a good idea to compair, only i do not have any factory ammo...
I like the idea of running them to book spec... just want to know what other 243 loaders are getting to the lands

hoytcanon · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2013, 06:55:27 AM »

Quote from: ElkSlayer6x5 on January 04, 2013, 06:29:44 AM

it is a good idea to compair, only i do not have any factory ammo...
I like the idea of running them to book spec... just want to know what other 243 loaders are getting to the lands

I know exactly what you are talking about... both of my .243's are long in the throat... and my best shooting accuracy was to leave bullet out beyond the "book" recommendations... I am shooting H4350 for the most part with 95 grain NBT's and H4895 with the 58 grain V-Max Moly's... both loads are very close to max... the short jump has not been a problem with presssure and the accuracy is improved... of course it is always best to work up, but you can't go wrong with those powders with those bullet weights... test as you go.

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2013, 07:53:14 AM »

any body know how much of a jump to lands they may like. new to reloading for them so any info is helpful.
forgot to mention they are 100 gr horndays

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2013, 08:26:42 AM »

IMHO, in a single shot you can easily go for a seating depth of only the bullet dia.into the case for short bullets as long as you are still a tad off the rifling. Exceeding the book OAL is only an issue when you are trying to keep 'em feeding from a magazine or loading for different guns, say, a bolt and a sgl. shot and dont want to segregate ammo.
As always, this works for me, any deviation you make from the book is your responsibility.

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2013, 08:45:07 AM »

thats was my thinking that there are no feed issues, so long as im off the lands Im ok.. but for a 1st timmer I am looking to confirm the info with resulst others have in the handis
I have a seat depth of more then the dia into the case... I will check that to be sure..lol

cwlongshot · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2013, 08:52:12 AM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on January 04, 2013, 08:26:42 AM

IMHO, in a single shot you can easily go for a seating depth of only the bullet dia.into the case for short bullets as long as you are still a tad off the rifling. Exceeding the book OAL is only an issue when you are trying to keep 'em feeding from a magazine or loading for different guns, say, a bolt and a sgl. shot and dont want to segregate ammo.
As always, this works for me, any deviation you make from the book is your responsibility.

I agree 100%!!

The OAL anyone else is using is a moot point as all chambers are a little different. Possible the distance off the lands could offer a starting point but most people say X or Y but Weldon's actually know exact amount. Keeping the bullets diameter in the case is also a good guideline. Truth be told .250 in the case is sufficient for most all calibers.

As for .02 off rifling. To my way of doing things that's too close for hunting ammo. It's OK for target but even then its pretty close for a std set of dies. Move it back by double and try it. Varying the dimensions will change accuracy. So keep track of what your doing. There is not allot of worry as long as your not into the rifling. ( that's our worry having it as close as your talking)

Having a much longer OAL or I should say longer than the Manuel's suggest. ( remember its only a suggestion) will increase case capacity and lower pressures from what listed. SO don't be suprised if you find you get zero pressure signs from loads with longer OAL. Take advantage if it and gain some vel and energy.

Good luck,
CW

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2013, 09:33:23 AM »

thanks for the replys .. As this is a new gun and never been shot befor. Im going to go ahead and bumb it back some. using thease 1st rounds to sight it in , they are base line loads

ElkSlayer6x5 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 05, 2013, 06:57:08 AM »

loaded up another 25 moved the 1st bunch back .010 (2.79)so Im ready to sight it in.. then I will restart the load work up leaving the OAL alone Im going to add 1/2 gr to my start load and move up towards max of IMR4350 any body else using this powder

gcrank1 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2013, 08:16:22 AM »

Most find the groups get better over time/rds and often shoot better dirty. Make sure you get that latch and shelf clean and dry to start. Yours might ( hope so) start out great and just get better, but if it seems less than you hoped for, give it a chance.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2013, 08:51:08 AM »

I load my 243's with IMR4350 and they shoot it well.

I also like Hornadys 100g RN. Much of our shooting here on white tails is upper and personal. This loading is proven a very good one. I load a medium loading at 40g of powder. IIRC 42/43 is a max load. The bullet mushrooms very well and penetrates very well seldom do we find a bullet. And we have some big deer here in Connecticut.

There are a number of good powders but I think you will do well starting With 4350.

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 05, 2013, 09:36:56 AM »

Just a note on 243 bullet weight, many have reported problems with bigger bullets, 95gr and higher, some have reported a slightly slower twist in the barrels which may account for it, 85gr seems to be a happy compromise as do flat based bullets over boattails. I have had three 243 H&Rs, two Ultras and a Superlight, one Ultra didn't care for the 95-100gr factory ammo that works in the others, it shot 80gr Rem PSP real good and now as a 6mmAckley shoots 87gr Vmax very well. The Superlight shoots 100gr Speer handloads w/H4895 real well for the first two shots, then they open up.

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #17 on:** January 05, 2013, 11:13:38 AM »

I haven't read of these problems Tim...

If you have issues with the 100's. these was a 90g Similar pointed made for the 6mm that usually shoots well in the slower twist barrels yet keeps the weight up for good preforms ce on game. As stated the 87 Hornsdy has a following altho I have not used it much myself. Sierras excellent 85 HP is another good choice if the ranges get long on game. Guys use it for all ranges, but personally I would hesitate with top loads at under 100 yards. At least avoid bigger bones at close ranges.

I have two myself one ultra varmint 24" and one std 22". My father also has a ultra Varmint, one hunting buddie has a std and another friend has one for his boy. I load same load for all of them.

I never paid attention to what the twist is in them. I also have a 760 in 6MM and pop has a 243 Savage. These also shoot this loading very well.

With Peters recient posts about the super light. Not to forget all yours of te past, I thought hard about it. But there is so many calibers and only so much time...

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2013, 11:25:55 AM »

Haven't read, or don't remember?

The topic of heavy bullets in 243 Handis has been discussed many, many times over the years, one was not long ago and you even participated in it!

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=265746.msg1099584393#msg1099584393

243 Heavy Bullet Discussions

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2013, 02:22:32 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 05, 2013, 11:25:55 AM

Haven't read, or don't remember? The topic of heavy bullets in 243 Handis has been discussed many, many times over the years, one was not long ago and you even participated in it!

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=265746.msg1099584393#msg1099584393

243 Heavy Bullet Discussions

LOL.. Well of coarse I remember the top post.

But I did not read into it, so far to think it was a epidemic of problems with heavy 243 bullets...

$:-\$ I mean the simple truth is that some rifle barrels simply don't like boat tail bullets same as some won't shoot a plain base well... Its not limited to 243 diameter. The 1:10 is pretty much standard and will allow for adaquite stabulisation of 243 bullets from the lightest to 100. The ultra heavies may not have enough but as we all know you cannot over stabulize a bullet only UNDER stabulize them.

Remington made a bad decision when it brought out the 6MM choosing to design it for the lighter bullets and using a 1:12 twist. The Winchester used 1:10 and did not have issues with 100 g bullets.

Anyway, The O.P. has enough in his head and so far we do not know there are any problems. So one step at a time..

CW

mechanic · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2013, 04:55:09 PM »

On all my Handis I use an unprimed case and finger started bullet to find initial OAL, then I back off .005. This has worked well so far. I don't worry about book OAL, except to make sure I'm not too short, which would mean too much bullet in the case and increased pressures.

The only problems I have had is with 45-70 with larger bullets, (500gr.), which caused me to have to reduce from factory specs. to work up loads as it was seated too deep.

Ben

gcrank1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2013, 05:29:01 PM »

Ben, I cant help but ask where in the book you find how tall you are supposed to be?......Im gettin' worried now that maybe Im too short!

mechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2013, 05:30:48 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on January 05, 2013, 05:29:01 PM

Ben, I cant help but ask where in the book you find how tall you are supposed to be?......Im gettin' worried now that maybe Im too short!

I've been coming up short in a lot of ways! The good thing is the older I get the less I care!

Ben

gcrank1 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2013, 05:47:58 PM »

You may think you are 'coming up short' but you sure are quick!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2013, 06:45:04 PM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on January 05, 2013, 02:22:32 PM

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 05, 2013, 11:25:55 AM
Haven't read, or don't remember? The topic of heavy bullets in 243 Handis has been discussed many, many times over the years, one was not long ago and you even participated in it!

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=265746.msg1099584393#msg1099584393

243 Heavy Bullet Discussions

LOL.. Well of coarse I remember the top post.

But I did not read into it, so far to think it was a epidemic of problems with heavy 243 bullets... $:-\$ I mean the simple truth is that some rifle barrels simply don't like boat tail bullets same as some won't shoot a plain base well... Its not limited to 243 diameter. The 1:10 is pretty much standard and will allow for adaquite stabulisation of 243 bullets from the lightest to 100. The ultra heavies may not have enough but as we all know you cannot over stabulize a bullet only UNDER stabulize them.

Remington made a bad decision when it brought out the 6MM choosing to design it for the lighter bullets and using a 1:12 twist. The Winchester used 1:10 and did not have issues with 100 g bullets.

Anyway, The O.P. has enough in his head and so far we do not know there are any problems. So one step at a time..

CW

That's just one of the many 243 discussions on 243 heavy bullets, did ya read any of the google links? Give em books and all they do is eat the covers!!!

You musta been on one of your ATV/4x4 vacations when all of em were posted!

From some members reports, I believe H&R has made some 243 barrels with slower twists, I recollect one for sure that was reported as confirmed at 1:11½", so there must be more of them out there. All I'm sayin to the OP is don't be surprised if they don't shoot good and maybe try some slightly lighter bullets for a good chance of not having to try several loads/bullets to find the magic combination. It ain't like no one here has had a problem with 95-100gr bullets cuz they definitely have. Reports like Kbis' lead me to believe the slower twist issue is important, keyholing factory 100gr ammo, yet bug hole groups with 85gr is a real clue to the problem.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,209167.msg1099109322.html#msg1099109322

Quote from: Kbis on June 09, 2010, 11:49:35 AM

My Ultra hates 100 grain stuff. Some of the factory loads key holed. It loves 85 grain Sierra Game Kings over IMR4831. The best group has been 7 rounds at 100 yards meassuring .395 (just over 3/8"). This load has taken several Whitetails.

Quote from: Kbis on October 07, 2008, 07:58:58 AM

My 243 will not shoot 100 grain stuff at all, almost every round will key hole with 3 different factory loads, but will shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards with Sierra 85 grain bullets and IMR 4831.

elkslayer4x5 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2013, 06:26:25 AM »

6x5's starting load is 36 grs of IMR 4350. On a reloading board, he was told that IMR 4350 is not the powder for light loads, warning of secondary explosion effect. We used the Lyman 49th loading manual to find a starting load, they say start at 35.5 grs to a max of 39.5 grs, but cwlongshot tells us that he uses a mediun load of 40 grs of IMR 4350. Is 36 grs of IMR 4350 too light a load?

cjrjck · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2013, 07:23:47 AM »

If you are using a 100 grain bullet, 36 grains of IMR 4350 should be fine but note below how seating depth can alter pressure and maximum charge weights.

If you seat the bullets out farther, as long as they are not touching the lands, you tend to lower pressure and velocity for that matter. You also increase case capacity thereby allowing for heavier charges at acceptable pressures, theoretically. Reloading manuals are just guides and you should always begin with the starting loads and keep an eye out for pressure signs before increasing powder charges. I have had rifles where the starting loads were max. Additionally any component change or difference in OAL can make a difference. Like I mentioned earlier, if you are seating your bullets out farther than what is recommended in the manual, chances are your pressure is lower as is your velocity. Only you can tell this though.

As for the OAL, especially with .308 based cartridges in the Handi, I have owned approximately five Handi 243 rifles, two 7mm08, and a couple of 308 rifles and every one of them had long throats, some very long - sort of like the infamous Weatherby freebore. Which is fine for a reloader. I normally start by seating the bullets just shy of the lands if I can get them there and then work back.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** January 07, 2013, 12:54:36 AM »

One trick I was told about and use some is to set the base of the bullet flush with the base of the neck where it meets the shoulder.

speedrackin99 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2013, 01:23:34 PM »

new here and really enjoy this place my load for my 243 ultra is 38 gr 4064 with a 87 gr hornady vmax . cci 200 primer my oal is set at 279 ... 100 yrd groups holes touching .....