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Author Topic: 45-70 cast loads  (Read 1144 times)

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Offline Tractorsaw1

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45-70 cast loads
« on: January 08, 2013, 02:45:24 AM »
Curious if anyone has any experience with the 330 grain cast hollow point bullet?  I have done some trade deals to pick some up thanks to this great site.  My lyman manual has velocity over 2200 fps with the ruger load data.  Seems pretty fast for a bullet with no gas check.  I am just looking for info before I spring for buying the mold.
On a new barrel should I shoot x amount of jacketed bullets before shooting cast?
I think I have decided on the speer 300grain hollow point for starters. Is the speer the best hollow point to not explode when pushed to the upper limits?  Any info appreciated.  Thanks
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 05:48:02 AM »
Too fast for cast for me, though some advanced cast bullet shooters use some alloy and base wads to get jacketed bullet velo's. I have started several rifles with lead, no jacketed 'break in' and they work fine. I dont think you will like Ruger level loads in an H&R, but I ain't you.........
The nice thing about a 45-70 or any big bore with lead bullets, is you dont need a hollow point (expanding) bullet to get the job done. If you read the expanded dia. of recovered game bullets in, say, 30 cal., you may see they expanded to somewhere around 40-45 cal. You started out there. Shoot those HPs and make accurate loads for your gun/shoulder and dont much worry about if they are going to expand or not. If you put one where the critter lives it is meat.
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Offline petemi

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 07:11:42 AM »
The only cast bullet I shoot to amount to anything is a .433 Heat Treated, Gas Checked bullet from Montana Bullet Co. in my .445.  The only reason I shoot that one is that the barrel is one of the older over bored.  I run them about 1900 fps which I wouldn't do if they weren't gas checked.  I agree in that a .45 caliber bullet doesn't need a lot of velocity or expansion.  I recently killed a deer with a saboted .451 XTP over two 50 gr. Triple Seven pellets out of my 50 Huntsman.  It made a mess.  Yeah, the deer dropped in its tracks, but it was plainly a case of over-expansion.  I believe a cast bullet would have had the same results without the mess.

Pete
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Offline siamese4570

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 07:51:14 AM »
Tractorsaw1: That's about all that I shoot out of my 45-70 handi.  I use unique (can't remember how much) to shoot the boolit about 1400 fps.  It's accurate and won't loosen your fillings.  You have to remember that the gould 330 hp was designed to work at black powder velocities. If you push it too fast it will lead and blow up on impact.   I haven't managed to get a deer in front of mine yet but I have tested it in water filled milk jugs.  I caught the boolit in the 6th jug.  that should be plenty of penetration unless you encounter a elephant.  I know that we all get caught up in the velocity thing but the buffaloes were wiped out using lead boolits at 1200-1400 fps.
Siamese4570
 
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Offline Center Shot

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 02:07:55 PM »
I have not tried it yet but it is in a box of molds that I just inherited it looks like it should work fine in my BC. I have heen shooting a 385 grain gas checked and a 300 grain Lee that I paper patch. I also plan on trying a 400 grain plan base that I also have.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 06:37:11 PM »
Quote from: Tractorsaw1 on January 08, 2013, 02:45:24 AM
Curious if anyone has any experience with the 330 grain cast hollow point bullet? 

I have some of the 457122 from Western, I also have the mold, but I don't cast any more, I can send ya some to try if ya like.  ;)

Tim

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr8.html

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Offline Tractorsaw1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 01:06:22 AM »
Hey Thanks Tim, but two shooter is sending me some to test drive as he casts them also.  I also think I got a trade deal with xd shooter.  Thanks for the link, I didn't think you could buy them at all, nor that cheap.  This site & the folks on it really are the best!  Thanks again for the link.
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Offline LaDano

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 02:34:09 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on January 08, 2013, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Tractorsaw1 on January 08, 2013, 02:45:24 AM
Curious if anyone has any experience with the 330 grain cast hollow point bullet? 

I have some of the 457122 from Western, I also have the mold, but I don't cast any more, I can send ya some to try if ya like.  ;)

Tim

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr8.html


I'm about to work a load for my 45-70, how would this bullet do on deer or hogs? 
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 05:44:56 AM »
Paul Matthews in his book Forty Years with the 45-70 says the 457122 330gr Gould bullet is an excellent deer bullet, can't get a better recommendation than that.  ;) His load was 53gr 3031 under a 16:1 lead-tin mix which he says is soft enough to expand easily. Using modern data, that would put it in Lyman's 48th lower levergun data @ ~1750-1800fps which may be to fast with modern 3031, depends on bullet size to the bore, I'd work up from Lyman's trapdoor data to avoid leading. Trapdoor data is 43gr-47.5gr 3031 for 1338-1532fps, Lyman doesn't say which of the two test barrels they used, 24" or  30". Matthews also stated accuracy is best in rifles with a short jump to the rifling which describes many H&R 45-70s!  ;)

Tim

 
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Offline LaDano

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 07:15:20 AM »
I'd buy some from you, sure would like to try them out on a hog.
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Offline Okie2

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 08:39:48 AM »
I use that bullet cast for my H&R buffalo classic...don't remember the exact powder or weight...shoots really well.   Pounded a deer @ 40 yards...much for damage than I expected.  Good accuracy & easy mold to acquire & mold with.  Highly recommended.
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Offline rdlange

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 10:38:31 AM »
"Paul Matthews in his book Forty Years with the 45-70 says the 457122 330gr Gould bullet is an excellent deer bullet, can't get a better recommendation than that.  ;) His load was 53gr 3031 under a 16:1 lead-tin mix which he says is soft enough to expand easily."
 
He also talks about this bullet in his paper patch book, so I'm wondering if he is referring to this load as PP or plain lead???
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 12:49:38 PM »
I don't see anything about PP, he talks about lubes and wads.

Tim
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 01:44:04 PM »
Check the mould number for dia. specs, the PP bullet would need to be under bore size to do the wrap, thus different numbers for PP or GG bullet, even with the same basic profile.
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Offline Tractorsaw1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 07:14:11 AM »
The one trade deal said he ran at 2050fps over reloader 7 with no leading.  Looking forward to trying them out.  That western link is gonna get me in trouble, the more I looked the more I want to add to the cart.  Tim do you know what their alloy is, I didn't see it listed on the site.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 07:21:00 AM »
If you visit the cast bullet forum here on GBO you will find the right criteria to get jacketed bullet velo's with cast. Often you hear to use hard, very hard, alloy (quenched lead/antimony alloy gets real hard) but you HAVE to have the right throat dia. bullet to start with. ANY undersize from ignition out of the case mouth will begin gas cutting the base and up the sides even with hard alloy resulting in leading and inaccuracy.
Id cast some up and start shooting with a load that will go some 1250-1350 fps and work my way up. BTW, dont size those casts, check them as cast in a fully fire-formed to your chamber case mouth first (if you size them and they 'fall' in they are too small).
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Tractorsaw1

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Re: 45-70 cast loads
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 06:56:31 AM »
Thanks, guess i got a lot of reading to do in the cast forum.  I been there some, but will be more.
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