slipping rifle

[SHOOTALL]

There are perfect packing guns and scout rifles so I will use slipping rifle for the rifle that allows one the comfort of a rifle while slipping home thru. a crisis. The crisis could be local or far from home on a trip or it could be nation wide. It could be weather related or of a civil nature. Although the scout rifle would work it has a higher price tag may be heavier and most likely bigger and maybe more powerful.
 What should it be ? light , weather resistant, share ammo with a handgun , solid action , aval. ammo, ablity to have both iron sights and scope/eletronic sights  and priced with in reason but not cheap. There are surely several rifles that could fit this idea. I find the Ruger 77-44 and 77-357 both would work well with the 77-357 being the best choice. Why ? Well lets look at it in 357 mag. I won't list the revolvers aval. in 357 mag. or the few auto loaders. I will mention they come in small to large guns so someone should find a mate they like. Ammo is aval. most places ammo is sold and the option of 38spl. offers a less expensive option as well as a small game bullet. In reality the rifle would take game as small as limb rats and as big as deer or maybe larger. With the Ruger scope mounting systen a scope can be added sighted in  , removed and replaced and at least at shorter ranges be used with out resighting in a real plus at times.Add a adapter rail and a sight like a Eotec could be used (a nice option ).  Being SS with plastic stock  the Ruger can resist bad weather along with some abuse.
  OK, so what would this gun be useful for ? Well it would make a great truck gun for on the farm use , it is a fun gun to shoot, it is small and travels well , in either 357 or 44 it is a real stopper if a bad critter or bad guy is encountered. But back to SLIPPING rifle idea. I travel alot . When I say travel I mean to far to walk home in a day. Sometimes it would be farther than I could walk home in several weeks. Here is what I do when I travel ( note I most always drive these days ) first the gas tank never goes below 1/2 full if at all possible . Second I often carry 5-10 gal of extra gas , third I always have water and food with me and extra clothes. Another important thing is to listen to local radio stations for weather and news reports . This allows you to avoid trouble by changing route or returning home. If all that fails and I would find myself in a crisis with out wheels I would walk to safety or home. After seen what has happened during some of the weather related crisis over the last 10 years being armed seems reasonable. A powerful light rifle seems very useful and one that is not as loud as a high power rifle and one with a bit less range seems about right. So where did slipping come from ?    Well I plan to slip around all problems. Plan to avoid all confrontation if possible not get into a fight. I always carry maps in areas I don't know well and would use them to avoid problem areas and the best water crossings etc. Not only trying to slip around problems but planning to and when travling being aware of what is going on makes the need for a full battle rifle less a concern ( I hope) . The Ruger in 44 or 357 both hold either 5 or 6 rounds and extra magazines are easy to carry in a pocket . We could mention the rifle looks less evil than an AR or AK but I'm not sure that would matter in a crisis , it may when passing thru. uneffected areas like when you seek food or a ride .    Ammo selection for either 44 or 357 is large from snake shot to combat rounds which only adds to the utility of both the rifle and revolver.Both have a less powerful round for a less expensive option .
 So any thoughts

[spruce]

Sounds reasonable.  I believe I'd favor the .357 mainly because you could carry more ammo for the same amount of weight/space.
 
I think a stainless Rossi lever in .357 would be a good choice too - maybe a trapper model.  One downside to this would be the wood stock, and the buttstock attachment at the wrist is more prone to breakage than the one piece synthetic stock of the 77/.357.

[IOWA DON]

SHOOTALL - I don't like the feel of AR rifles. They just don't come up or hang the way a good hunting rifle does. I like your recommendations on a .357 mag as being OK for any size game or self defense, especially because it can use .38 Special ammo if needed. Having extra clips in the 77/357 would also be a good feature. Will a Marlin lever gun in .357 funtion with .38 Special ammo? - DON

[SHOOTALL]

I don't really like the AR as the weight is alot to carry with full mags . I think most lever actions in 357 mag would shoot 38 spl. I noted the 77-357 but there are other guns that would work. I don't plan on getting into a fight and would go out of my way to avoid it. Any fight I avoid is one I win. So any repeter would work OK (I hope). I am older and due to medical concerns won't be hauling a heavy load , I can still walk (not so fast) and could make steady time with a lite load. I would really hope to be able to use my truck even if it ment taking a round about way home (when things turn bad I will turn homeward if at all possible). The mag looks good but the flip side with the lever action there is no mag to lose. Of course the mag tube could get bent .

[IOWA DON]

SHOOTALL - Here's another factor I would like some input on. I've read the .357 makes a much louder, earsplitting crack than a .44 Special in a pistol, but that killing power is about the same. How about in a rifle barrel, say 16 or 18 inches. It seems that even a slightly less noisy rifle would be an advantage, specially for someone like me who's ears ring all the time. I generally wear ear protection when shooting, but in an emergency or sneaking around, trying to get away from bad guys ear protection would not be good. - DON

[SHOOTALL]

I had a 357 mag rifle over 15 years ago with a 16 inch bbl and it was somewhat loud with mag loads and quite nice with 38 spl. and in a 16 inch bbl the 38 is a bit better than in a 4 inch revolver. I have a 44 mag rifle now ant it is pleasant to shoot even with 44 mag loads  so you might be on to something. But I am 80 deaft in my left ear . I have not tried 44 spl. loads in the rifle yet.

[Empty Quiver]

Pay the tax and get a short barrel for your AR-15. It'll get even shorter by pushing two pins. It'll shoot 22lr with an adapter (no it's not optimum). With an AR-15 pistol and a pile of PVC pipe I could come up with something interesting, again maybe not optimal but useful, and illegal too I suppose.    Maybe just make an E-tool handle extender.

[mechanic]

I'll just hang with my rimfire and hope I can stay out of trouble......
 
Ben

[Mike in Virginia]

I don't have one, but I'd chose a Ruger Ranch Rifle. 

[wolverine_1]

Rifle sounds nice, but I remember going for a walk outside of Denver years ago.  My brother and I ended up coming down on the other side of the mountain (read long walk home).  Since we had pistols, we just put them in our knapsacks and stuck out our thumbs.  Something to think about.

[Ranger99]

i'd still have to vote for the ar-7.
if your scenario is what i read above,
the name of the game is sere, and if
you have to "slip", you're gonna have
to have something to fit inside a pack
disassembled. i'd dismiss any combat
type rifle out of hand because you're
not looking for a firefight, but to get
back to home and hearth.(where your
full growed ak or whatever is, and your
like-minded neighbors hopefully)
i wouldn't feel too nekked myself with
my disassembled topper in a pack of
well thought out goods.
and i'm assuming you have a small
portable radio and earphone with you
and not just your car radio. i picked up
a little eton fr160 before thankgiving
that's worked out real good. dynamo
and solar cell charged w/ weather band.

[mannyrock]

Guys,
 
   Allow me to repeat an admonition here.  Don't ever think that you are just going to switch from .357 mag to .38 special in your rifle, unless you have the time, targets, bench and patience to adjust your sights, to raise your point of impact by about a full 1 foot at 100 yards. The .38s are so slow coming out of a carbine, that you can count a full beat between firing, and hearing them  hit the paper at that distance.  And of course, it is almost impossible to raise a point of impact by 1 foot without also fiddling with the windage adjustments.  Morevover, two boxes of .38s or .357 are darned heavy.
 
    A break down rifle in .22 magnum would be far preferable.  Perhaps a lever action  or pump, with a good Skinner sight.  All you would ever need, and not likely to be confiscated.  Whenever there have been panics or runs on ammo, I have seen the  boxes of  .38s and .357 fly off the shelves, while lots of boxes of .22 mag just sit there.  You could very easily carry two boxes, one with traditional round nose, and one with the V-Max.
   
     The .22 mag will take anything from squirrel to deer, and everything in between.   It is also loud enough that folks would know you mean business.   The Hornaday V-Max rounds are devastatingly disruptive on thin skinned animals.
 
Regards,
Mannyrock
 
   
 
   Also, the .38s and .357s are heavy.
 
   

[rzwieg]

I've considered all the same choices you folks posted here and decided on a shotgun as my get home piece. I work in a suburb of Milwaukee and it's a 34 mi walk home if Ol' Paint won't run. I carry food in my pack and think self defense is more of a concern around there.

[geezerbiker]

When I was young enough to still go hiking, I wished for a featherweight .22 single shot.   Something I could put in my pack with a box of ammo and not regret carrying it if it wasn't needed.  Last year I bought such a rifle but I bought it to teach my granddaughter to shoot when the time comes. 

It's a chipmunk .22 single shot.  I took it out and put a box through it before packing it away waiting for her to get a little older.  I have to say it's one of the best shooting .22's I've shot.  One of these and maybe a .357 or .44 revolver and you're covered.

Tony

[SHOOTALL]

I would think that if one was going to depend on a 357 / 38 they would have worked out the adjustments on a scope in advance or even iron sights . I have done so on a 308/30 carbine set up. To be frank if you have not you are poor at preparing.
weight of course 357's weigh more than 22's oe even 22mag's . but it's like a small pick up truck vs a 3/4 ton full size Ford. If you got to make 3 trips to haul the same load what have you saved ? Same with the gun . 99% of the time you might get away with a 22 but that one time you need the 357 and don't have it could be your last on earth    I carry for worst case not the easy times . That's just me though.
 as for hiding the gun , yes there may be times you must go into areas where it would be attention grabing or where it could be taken. That is why it should be weather resistant so it could be stashed and retrived. Also why a small revolver that can be tucked away in say a pocket would be nice to have. The 340 PD weighs 12 ozs .
 Keep in mind this would not be a time when you are in a crisis and everyone else is normal. it would be a time of great crisis and the need for more than a handgun would be real. A time when local law was not able to control people. It could last a few hours like in the LA riots or days like in N.O. And being in a different place than home can put you at a disadvantage ( read target).

[mannyrock]

 
    A shotgun is a poor self defense piece in a mixed terrain environment.  If anyone engages you at a distance of 75 yards or so (about as far as a man can throw a baseball), you would be very easily dispatched.  (Unless you are going to try to juggle both buckshot and slugs.)
 
   Fully agree that a .357 mag lever would be far better than a shotgun.
 
   But wanna know what would be much better?  An M-1 carbine with a synthetic stock.  Very easy to break down and put in a pack.  And with soft points, it is pretty darned effective out to 150 yards.  (I believe it is still carrying about 900 ft pounds of energy at 100 yards.)    The rifle is light.  The ammo is light.  The magazines are light.     
 
Manny

[SHOOTALL]

I agree about the carbine but think the HP ammo might be a tad better but both would work. Like noted I carry a 30 carbine adapter with a 308 rifle it works well. Can't agree about the shotgun though. My 870 with rifle sighted smooth bore bbl would be effective at 75 + yards with good foster slugs. Note I have shot it as far and farther in competition with good result. I did have screw in chokes installed and find a mod choke works best with both buckshot and slugs in this bbl. I can use and have a screw in rifled choke that allows me longer shot with sabot slugs . And no its not moa at 200 yards but a bad guy would sure worry  .
 This is a good discusion as many different rifles could be pressed into service as long as they were light and well built. The shotgun might be a bit heavy and ammo is large and heavy even in 20 ga. but in a pinch it would work.
 I  would still think a 77-357 or 77-44 rifle would be a good choice , weather resistance and both would be good stoppers for man or beast. Now to be stright , last night i read an article that stated that 38 should not be used in the 77-357 nor should 44spl. in the 77-44 . The article stated that both had been done over a thousand times in one gun and hundreds in others. So it would be up to the shooter . It was offered that the use of either could lead to hard chambering of the longer rounds.

[schoolmaster]

I would get a 10-22 youth rifle with the 16 inch barrel. Then I would fit it with a Choate folding stock and attach a strap to it to fit around my shoulders. Wearing a long coat or a rain coat would conceal it from view. Options 25 round mags, scope, sound moderator. 

[rzwieg]

    A shotgun is a poor self defense piece in a mixed terrain environment.  If anyone engages you at a distance of 75 yards or so (about as far as a man can throw a baseball), you would be very easily dispatched.  (Unless you are going to try to juggle both buckshot and slugs.)
 
   Fully agree that a .357 mag lever would be far better than a shotgun.
 
   But wanna know what would be much better?  An M-1 carbine with a synthetic stock.  Very easy to break down and put in a pack.  And with soft points, it is pretty darned effective out to 150 yards.  (I believe it is still carrying about 900 ft pounds of energy at 100 yards.)    The rifle is light.  The ammo is light.  The magazines are light.     
 
Manny

Yes I understand the limits of a shotgun. The one I'd use was my deer gun for years and would be stoked with slugs and buckshot. Naturally I'd avoid trouble if possible.
 

[SHOOTALL]

A shotgun or 30 carbine both either don't have handguns that shoot same ammo or very limited selsction. The concept is to have a gun(s) that share ammo. That way if one is broken or lost the ammo supply which will be limited will still work.
The 22 LR is not a stopper , if a 22 rifle was carried then the handgun maybe should be of a larger cal. then the use of same ammo is not possible. And I do believe 22 ammo stores as well in vehicles as centerfire .

[spruce]

How about a Kel-tec sub 2000 carbine and either a semi-auto handgun using the same magazines or a 9mm revolver.
Granted, the 9mm isn't a giant slayer at say 150yards, but the carbine makes hits at that range a good probability and after a couple of hits your attacker would probably be seriously thinking about finding an easier victim!
The Kel-tec is very compact when folded and even unfolded could be easily hidden under a long coat.  9mm ammo is compact so a fair number of rounds could be carried.  .40 S&W is another option for more punch with a trade off of slightly bulkier ammo.

[bilmac]

I would trust a semi auto 22  rifle for self defense [you can get multiple hits in a hurry] if you are carrying everything on your back and need the ultimate in portability, BUT, I would hate to depend on a 22 pistol for self defense. In fact if I were limited to 22 cal and had a rifle, I wouldn't even bother to carry a pistol.

I like the idea of a rifle/ pistol combo better. While I am a huge fan of the 357, in this specific scenerio  I would think hard about a folding 9mm semi auto carbine and a small handgun that would be big enough to shoot fairly accurately but small enough that it could be semi concealed. I think having a rifle that could be mostly hidden might be a big plus if you had to move through an area that was populated. An apparently unarmed man walking by might not engender a response by onlookers, but if guns are showing, people might want to "check you out"

[SHOOTALL]

How about a Kel-tec sub 2000 carbine and either a semi-auto handgun using the same magazines or a 9mm revolver.
Granted, the 9mm isn't a giant slayer at say 150yards, but the carbine makes hits at that range a good probability and after a couple of hits your attacker would probably be seriously thinking about finding an easier victim!
The Kel-tec is very compact when folded and even unfolded could be easily hidden under a long coat.  9mm ammo is compact so a fair number of rounds could be carried.  .40 S&W is another option for more punch with a trade off of slightly bulkier ammo.

If the bad guy(s) are 150 yards away why alert them ? but in the case of a pizz critter would a 9 be enough ? do they come in 40 ? 45 ?

[spruce]

Why alert them?  Maybe they missed with their first shot!  I think avoidance/evasion would be the primary goal, not taking pot shots at everyone encountered.
 
I think a 9mm carbine would be adequate (far from ideal, but adequate) to defend yourself from anything up to and including a black bear, but they do come in .40 S&W also.
 
 

[Victor3]

 Handgun caliber rifles I have are H&R single shots, an old Spanish 9mm Destroyer (bolt action) and a Ruger 44 carbine (auto). Tell you what, while tromping around out in the sticks I've often felt like my 'pistol rifles' would put me at a big disadvantage if I came upon someone with a 'real' rifle wanting to do me harm from a distance.


 A light, short, H&R single shot 223 like their superlight handi-rifle compact with a 4x scope would make me feel safer than a hi-cap 9mm carbine if there were a possibility of engaging someone past 100 yds. It could be easily broken down and put into a pack too.


 I'd carry a pistol in another caliber and not worry so much about two types of ammo...

[mannyrock]

 
  Wow.  What a great response.  So many different opinions.
 
   Last comment on shotguns.  The OP said that weight was one of his primary concerns.  A 12 gauge slug weighs a ton.  You would carry 3 or 4 rounds of .223, or maybe 5 rounds of M1 Carbine, for the same weight.
 
Mannyrock

[FPH]

I don't worry about my pistol being of the same caliber as my rifle.  Two different calibers gives me more options if I find my self needing to "scrounge" off the land.

[SHOOTALL]

True about the options of ammo but in reality those who attack you will resupply you if you win. I still feel it better to have ammo that can be used in both guns as one can break or get lost.

[Empty Quiver]

I don't worry about my pistol being of the same caliber as my rifle.  Two different calibers gives me more options if I find my self needing to "scrounge" off the land.

The last shortage made me rethink the single calibre debate. I have a .40 S&W that never has wanted for ammo. Picked up another 100 pack at W*M just last Friday night. No 9MM to be found and a single box of .45 ACP on the shelves, no .22, and no .38 / .357.  That mix could quite easily change if I were at a different store or followed a different delivery.


My solution is this. I have a fairly large amount of ammo for my "favorite" both ball and HP. For the other pistols in the house I have what I consider a moderate amount. If push came to shove I have a choice of 4 different calibres to feed 5 pistols. Long guns all have a set of dies and components available. Again the favorite has plenty already loaded.


My thumbs will be raw and bleeding long before ammo is a question. But I do have a plan with options available to me.

[SHOOTALL]

but in this thread you are walking and can only have what you can tote . Not what is on hand at home , you are away from home and what you have is what will get you home , well if it still exist.