Author Topic: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson  (Read 979 times)

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Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« on: January 13, 2013, 03:21:14 PM »
I was given a Smith & Wesson Pistol by my Grandfather a couple years ago and I would like to know what year it is and its value. I know at least it's a pre-WWII .32 Hand Ejector Revolver but beyond that I haven't a clue. The only identifying numbers on it are the SN which is B 394XXX which is on the bottom of the barrel under the ejector rod and just 394XXX on the front portion of the grip part of the frame. The numbers 16070 are also on the inside of the cylinder hinge and on the frame adjacent to the hinge. It has PAT JUNE 1917 stamped on the bottom of the grip. When my Great Grandfather had the gun he sawed the front portion of the trigger guard off and I would like to know if it can be taken to a smith and have a new one made for it and put on and what are the legal issues with it being sawed off the gun.
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2013, 08:06:12 PM »
I don't think that they had models in that day or frame sizes either.
That cut away treatment is commonly called a Fritz treatment---I believe I am correct on this. I have seen a lot of pics from him and other gunsmiths who did this.
This old gun looks like it could use some love.
Why don't you Bowen or one of those boys and see what they say they can do for you ?
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2013, 11:52:12 PM »
Hello
Your S&W revolver looks to be what is Called a "Regulation Police" Model. It should have a Re-bated back strap which starts out as a round butt at the top of the grip frame then has a Notch on it and appear's to be a square butt at the lower Portion of the Grip Frame. These revolver's are considered the "I" Frame configuration which is a Tad bit smaller in size than the later made J-Frames. They were a Popular side arm of Policemen back in the Early 1900's time span to around the early to late 1930's time span. Most will have a 3-1/4" Barrel on them. They made the same configuration in a .38 S&W Caliber and thos had Regulation Police stamped into the side's of the barrel, but the .32 S&W Long Cartridge model's did not have the Regulation Police stamped on the side of their barrels.I hope this helps, Hammerdown
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 02:33:24 AM »
Thanks William and Hammer can anyone give me a specific year from the standard catalog* I just don't have one right now, but do plan on getting one and is it legal to use guns with the Frits (trigger guard removed) treatment? *standard catalog of smith & wessons.
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Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 02:54:20 AM »
Thanks William and Hammer can anyone give me a specific year from the standard catalog* I just don't have one right now, but do plan on getting one and is it legal to use guns with the Frits (trigger guard removed) treatment? *standard catalog of smith & wessons.

Hello
The Regulation Police Model's are hard to trace as far as serial sequence goes as this shipped out Randomly. As close as I can see yours is from around June 1924  time span.  There is Nothing Illegal about a modified trigger guard that I am aware of. I hope this helps, Regards, Hammerdown
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 03:12:53 AM »
Thank you Hammer I wasn't too concerned about a certain date what you gave me is all I wanted another thing though if I just pull the trigger it will fire every time, but if I cock the hammer and pull the trigger it won't hit the primer unless I slightly rotate the cylinder until it clicks into place. What could cause the cylinder not to rotate all the way in single action?
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 03:28:46 AM »
sounds like your gun is out of time. A good smith can time it . a good smith can weld on a new trigger bow also but it would require refinishing the gun also.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2013, 03:39:30 AM »
Thanks shootall I plan on getting the gun refinished. Does anybody know if black t coatings in Mississippi does gun bluing or are they strictly Teflon coating?
Remington Model 700 .308
H&R 35 Whelen
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Stoeger Model 2000 12 gauge
S&W .32 Police
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Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2013, 09:08:54 AM »
Thank you Hammer I wasn't too concerned about a certain date what you gave me is all I wanted another thing though if I just pull the trigger it will fire every time, but if I cock the hammer and pull the trigger it won't hit the primer unless I slightly rotate the cylinder until it clicks into place. What could cause the cylinder not to rotate all the way in single action?

Hello
I wouldn't be Too sure that the timing is off , or that you have worn Part's in your revolver Quit yet. I have seen several of these Older Regulation Police revolver's filled with Old Gummy Gun Oil. The cure would be to Take out the side Plate screw's to remove the side Plate. Once all Four side Plate screw's Have been removed roll The revolver onto it's side with the side Plate Facing down, Wrapping your hand around it mid section from the top of the gun &. Gently Tap The Lower Grip Frame on an angle on the top of the wood bench top to Vibrate or Rattle the side Plate off the gun's Main frame. Never Pry one off as it will Damage the side Plate by Bending it from Prying. By Rapping the Lower grip frame lightly on the wood Bench top it will Jar the side Plate loose of the gun's Frame. Once the side Plate is off your gun you will be able to se it's Internal action Parts. Use a Good solvent Gun cleaner and flush the Internal action Parts. You can operate the action with the side Plate off to Insure you get The action cleaner solvent through all of the parts. Flush it good, wipe it clean and apply some Fresh Gun Oil to The Internals Parts. Cycle the guns action again and see if the Good cleaning took care of your Light Primer strike's or solid lock up issues.
 
Now, Place the side Plate back on your gun and Place the side Plate screw's where they came from. Tighten them evenly until they are tight. Make sure once you have the side Plate scre's tight that the strain screw is tight. The strain screw is what Places Pressure on your Main spring that Operates the Hammer force when firing the Gun. It is Not Uncommon to se these strain screw's Loosen over time, so Turn it down Tightly. If this Procedure does not fix your current Indexing issue you will have to take to gun to a Gun smith for repairs. Here is a Regulation Police revolver of mine that dates 1925. I took all of it's action part's out and cleaned it good. You can do the same to your's if you like, they are not that hard to disassemble for a good Cleaning.  I hope this Helps, Hammerdown
 
 
 

 
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 09:10:17 AM »
Hi
I forgot to say be sure to Place the screw's from the side Plate in the order that they came out of the gun, and if removing the stock's simply loosen the attachment screw some and Push the stock's off the gun's frame as they may be very tight and this will Keep from Breaking them or damaging them. I hope this Helps, Hammerdown
 
 
 
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 11:14:43 AM »
So if I take the side plate off no little tiny parts will fall out right? Of course that's if everything is where it's supposed to be.
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Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 12:39:33 AM »
So if I take the side plate off no little tiny parts will fall out right? Of course that's if everything is where it's supposed to be.

Hello ZacH
Depeding on the vintage of your gun, if it is a Pre-1943 status there are no Part's that will fly out as you called it. If your gun is a Post-1943 there will be a hammer block that will come out upon Taking the side plate off. This Hammer block goes from under the hammer area to the small Nub round raised portion on the rearward area of your rebound slide. It is easily Placed back in when you reassemble your gun's side plate. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 02:40:34 AM »
Thanks hammer, but one thing is you said that these guns had 3 1/4 barrels but when I measured mine it came out to be 3 1/2. I measured it from tip of barrel to where the frame and barrel meet. Am I measuring it wrong?
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Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 03:30:06 AM »
Thanks hammer, but one thing is you said that these guns had 3 1/4 barrels but when I measured mine it came out to be 3 1/2. I measured it from tip of barrel to where the frame and barrel meet. Am I measuring it wrong?

Hello ZacH
Typically you would measure a revolver barrel Length from the Business end of the barrel, Back to the tip of the forcing cone of the barrel (Where the barrel end's in front of the cylinder}. It was Not Uncommon for S&W to run a Little long or short of standard Barel length's back then, we have to remember at that time they were still all hand finished and S&W was Not a company to waste Part's so if a Barrel was an 1/8"-1/4" In length or shortness it often was used rather than scraped. In Taking a Regulation Police action apart it is rather straight foward, of which I will explain the process below for those that have not done so. Regards, Hammerdown
 
 
{1} Find a good fitting screwdriver that fit's the gun's side Plate screw's.
{2} Remove the stock's. Loosen the attachment screw slightly and Push The stock off the gun's frame by appling pressure to the head of the screw with the screwdriver.
{3} Loosen and remove the Four side Plate screw's. Be sure to set them out in the order that they were removed from the gun
{4} Loosen the Strain screw which is on the lower forestrap of the front grip frame
{5} remove the Now Lax Main spring. It is forked at the top where it fit's into The Gun's Hammer stirup, set it aside
{6} Remove the rebound slide assembly. This Part is square in shape and run's just above the gun's trigger. There is a spring inside it, so as you slightly Pry it off it's stud with a screwdriver be aware that the Internal spring will come out and it has some good Pressure behind it. Once it is out of the gun set it aside
{7} remove the Gun's trigger assembly. You may have to wiggle it a bit to get it off the frame stud and be sure the firing pin is clearing the upper top of the gun's main frame area. Set it aside
{8} Remove the Hammer assembly. You may have to wiggle it a bit to get it off the gun's monting stud. set it asside once it is out of the gun
 
{9}Remove the cylinder Extracor bar assembly. You will have to Take the screw and thumb piece off prior to removal of this Part. It can be pushed forward to remove it, but be carefull as to Not loose the small Internal spring or pressure pin Located in the rear of this assembly.
 
{10} soak all of the Internal action part's in a Good Gun cleaning solvent or clean each one with a Bronze bristle brush and gun solvent. Towel dry them, and set them aside
 
{11} flush in the Internal action area of the gun with a good gun cleaning solvent. Towel dry when done.
 
{12} Lightly Oil all of the Internal action contact Portions of the part's. Place a drop of oil on the end of the Three Main frame stud's where the hammer, trigger and rebound slide assembly fit into. Place a drop of oil on the area where the rebound slide assembly rides on being the back side of the Gun's action frame area as well as where it ride's on just above the trigger Guard area inside the main frame of the gun
 
 
Now you are ready to re-assemble the action Part's just reverse  the Process of disassembly. Place The cylinder extractor assembly back into Position by depressing the small Internal spring and Pressure pin, coming in on an angle at the back area of the gun's main frame. It will drop in Place once it clear's the rear Portion of the frame Place the Thumb screw and Nut onto The cylinder extractor stud and Tighten it down. Now Place the hammer back onto it's stud. making sure you keep the firing pin away from the gun's main frame area so it will clear that area and drop into Place. Push The stirup backward's
 
Now Place the trigger assembly back into The gun. Make sure once it is in Place that it is all the way down on the stud and that the small Pin with The round head coming back from the gun's trigger is facing rearward.
 
Now Place the spring back inside the rebound assembly and start it into The action by Placing the front of it into The Trigger Pin that was Left facing rearward. The spring will Not clear the rearward stud. You will have to carefully use the flat tip of the screwdriver to Cantilever the spring down onto The stud. Once it start's down onto the stud Push it on the rest of the way with Your finger.
 
Now Place the gun's action main spring back into The gun. Be sure that you get the forked Portion of the main spring into The Hammer striup. Once it is in The stirup, come in from the side of the gun frame with The lower flat Portion of the spring Placing it back in the Lower grip frame Groove for it. make sure it is even on both side. Now Take up the strain screw as tight as it will go. This will pre-load the spring
Now Place your side plate back into Position. Use the Palm of your hand to set it down into Place. It is a slightly tight fit so Make sure when doing so that it goes down even onto the gun's Main frame.
Now insert the side plate screw's in the order that they were removed. Take them down evenly as to Not wedge the side plate. Tighten all of the screw's down good
Now Place the stock's back on the Gun's frame and Take down the attachment screw. You gun can now be Cycled, tested and fired. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 12:43:19 PM »
As far as finishing goes do a search for Accurate Plateing in Alabama. He does good.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 04:18:15 PM »
Thanks for very detailed walk through, hammer. But it's still doing the same thing. It's almost like the arm that rotates the drum is not rising up enough to fully rotate the drum. The only reason the drum lines up in double action is because is has enough momentum to spin all the way. I noticed that if I cock the hammer slowly it doesn't line up quite all the way but if I cock it real fast it has enough momentum to go all the way and line/lock up. When the drum doesn't line up the firing pin hits the rim of the bullet instead of the primer and no bang but as long as the drum lines/locks up it hits the primer every time and I never have any misfires. Is this caused by being out of time or worn parts. Also when I took it apart all the mechanisms looked to be alright with very little wear. Oh and it's only about 1/16 of an inch from lining up when it does this.
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Stoeger Model 2000 12 gauge
S&W .32 Police
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Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 02:04:43 AM »
Thanks for very detailed walk through, hammer. But it's still doing the same thing. It's almost like the arm that rotates the drum is not rising up enough to fully rotate the drum. The only reason the drum lines up in double action is because is has enough momentum to spin all the way. I noticed that if I cock the hammer slowly it doesn't line up quite all the way but if I cock it real fast it has enough momentum to go all the way and line/lock up. When the drum doesn't line up the firing pin hits the rim of the bullet instead of the primer and no bang but as long as the drum lines/locks up it hits the primer every time and I never have any misfires. Is this caused by being out of time or worn parts. Also when I took it apart all the mechanisms looked to be alright with very little wear. Oh and it's only about 1/16 of an inch from lining up when it does this.

Hello ZacH
It sounds like it may be one or two thing's going on here. Either the cylinder extractor timing wheel has some wear to it {The star Portion of the extractor face} not Indexing the cylinder correctly or the cylinder hand has worn some not allowing it to index into Battery Position correctly. The good New's is that Numerich Gun Part's of West Hurley New York has Both Part's to correct your problem. Below is a Part diagram of these Two Part's needed to correct your problem and they will cost less than Fifty Bucks. Here is the part's numbers just Google Numerich gun Parts and go to S&W then click on "I" Frame parts, or simply click on the parts number's below to take you to the same page that they are shown on. I hope this help's, Hammerdown
 
 
ImageProduct #DescriptionPriceExtra Ship ChargeQuantityCost
1234930Extractor, .32 S&W Long (w/o Locating Holes)$26.50None$26.50
1364720Hand$17.55None$17.55
Sub Total:$44.05
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 03:11:04 AM »
Thank you hammer I'm going to get the Arm but my cylinder has the two locating pins and they are sold out of the extractors with the two locating holes. Would it be a good idea to get the cylinder and extractor combo they have listed?
Remington Model 700 .308
H&R 35 Whelen
H&R .410 Bore
Stoeger Model 2000 12 gauge
S&W .32 Police
Unique Model 52 .22 w/9 in. Barrel

Offline Hammerdown

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 03:19:41 AM »
Thank you hammer I'm going to get the Arm but my cylinder has the two locating pins and they are sold out of the extractors with the two locating holes. Would it be a good idea to get the cylinder and extractor combo they have listed?

Hello ZacH
If it were me, I would Buy Just The Cylinder Hand at this Point and see if adding it to your action solve's the timing issues. If it does not, The Only other thing that I think it could be is The cylinder extractor face piece that Look's Like a star is worn. Most worn cylinder extractor's will feel sharp to the finger when you rub across them, or actually show wear ridges in them or Pieces of the Extractor star missing. If your's look's clean and un worn Just go with the cylinder Hand for your revolver at this time and see if it cures it's issues. Regards, Hammerdown
"yeah, Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death, I shall Fear no evil as I carry with me my Loaded S&W"

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 03:22:02 PM »
I bought the cylinder hand today so once it comes in the mail I'll be able to see if that fixes it. Until then thanks.
Remington Model 700 .308
H&R 35 Whelen
H&R .410 Bore
Stoeger Model 2000 12 gauge
S&W .32 Police
Unique Model 52 .22 w/9 in. Barrel

Offline ZacH_GrifF

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Re: Need Help Identifying .32 Smith & Wesson
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 04:59:15 PM »
What would y'all recommend I go with as far as a finish. I'm stuck between a traditional hot blue or birdsong black t in black finish. The plus about the black t finish is I live 5 minutes from the company that does them so no shipping. If y'all have never heard of black t coating it is a business in Florence, MS. They do great work go look them up if you haven't heard of them.
Remington Model 700 .308
H&R 35 Whelen
H&R .410 Bore
Stoeger Model 2000 12 gauge
S&W .32 Police
Unique Model 52 .22 w/9 in. Barrel