Any public school teachers here?

[45-70.gov]

Isn't it strange that the Government trusts teachers to be in charge of our children for most of their young lives. Trusts them to teach our children lessons they'll carry all of their lives. Butttttt, our Government doesn't trust the same teachers to protect our children thus schools are gun free zones! Typical Goverment logic!

teachers  and  airline pilots  are all  too stupid to be trusted with a gun

[williamlayton]

Now, ladies and gentlemen, that last post was a perfect example of Typing while under the influence.
Blessings

[reliquary]

My first career was soldier, which lasted from '65-86.  The last 18 years of that were as a Military Policeman, with experience as SWAT leader in three different installations.  My second career was as a HS science teacher, from which I retired in 2008.  My daughter is a Physics/Chemistry teacher in a public school; her husband is a campus Chief of Police.  I say those things only to lend a little "cred" to these following comments:
 
None of us want ANY armed teachers, for numerous reasons.  First and foremost is that many (maybe even most) teachers are not emotionally suited to react to a shooting situation.  Second: in order to react effectively to a shooting situation, it might require them leaving THEIR students unprotected in a situation that may involve more than one shooter.  Third:  if a response team encountered an armed teacher in a hallway, there would be an unacceptable danger to the teacher from the response team.   Fourth, even if the armed teacher were under orders to stay in the classroom to protect those children, most classrooms are  undefendable because of the way they're designed. 
 
All of us agree that armed guards are the better idea...especially if the guard is a veteran. 

[BUGEYE]

Isn't it strange that the Government trusts teachers to be in charge of our children for most of their young lives. Trusts them to teach our children lessons they'll carry all of their lives. Butttttt, our Government doesn't trust the same teachers to protect our children thus schools are gun free zones! Typical Goverment logic!

teachers  and  airline pilots  are all  too stupid to be trusted with a gun

LOL, that may be partly true today. but in my day at Delta, nearly every pilot were former fighter and bomber pilots.  Delta didn't bother with pilots from civilian flight schools.  they wanted men with cool heads and were proven.  I figure if a pilot can be trusted with a B-52 and 50,000lbs of bombs, he can probably handle a 9mm.

[Casull]

First and foremost is that many (maybe even most) teachers are not emotionally suited to react to a shooting situation.  That could be.  Second: in order to react effectively to a shooting situation, it might require them leaving THEIR students unprotected in a situation that may involve more than one shooter.  If they are unarmed, they ARE leaving their students unprotected, even if they are present (as seen at Sandy Hook).  Third:  if a response team encountered an armed teacher in a hallway, there would be an unacceptable danger to the teacher from the response team.   More unacceptable than the danger from the armed attacker?  Fourth, even if the armed teacher were under orders to stay in the classroom to protect those children, most classrooms are  undefendable because of the way they're designed.  Would these classrooms be more undefendable with an unarmed teacher or an armed teacher? 

 
 

All of us agree that armed guards are the better idea...especially if the guard is a veteran.

 
Agreed.

[reliquary]

See words following "first and foremost", which obviate "teachers with weapons". 
 
 

[Casull]

See words following "first and foremost", which obviate "teachers with weapons".

 
 
 
Well, we don't need most of them armed, just some of them.   

[Old Fart]

See words following "first and foremost", which obviate "teachers with weapons".

 
 
 
Well, we don't need most of them armed, just some of them.   

I can definately agree with that.    As long as I'm one of them. 

[BUGEYE]

See words following "first and foremost", which obviate "teachers with weapons".

 
 
 
Well, we don't need most of them armed, just some of them.   

The principal at my wifes school is a retired Lt. Col helicopter pilot.  I feel sure that he could handle it.
plus the media specialist knows guns. my wife would carry a gun, and I can think of 2 or 3 more that would probably be willing to train.  the vice principal could ugly him to death and thus save students.

[45-70.gov]

Isn't it strange that the Government trusts teachers to be in charge of our children for most of their young lives. Trusts them to teach our children lessons they'll carry all of their lives. Butttttt, our Government doesn't trust the same teachers to protect our children thus schools are gun free zones! Typical Goverment logic!

teachers  and  airline pilots  are all  too stupid to be trusted with a gun

LOL, that may be partly true today. but in my day at Delta, nearly every pilot were former fighter and bomber pilots.  Delta didn't bother with pilots from civilian flight schools.  they wanted men with cool heads and were proven.  sI figure if a pilot can be trusted with a B-52 and 50,000lbs of bomb, he can probably handle a 9mm.

I figure if a pilot can be trusted with a B-52 and 50,000lbs of bomb


that was my point

[KIMBER45]

Now, ladies and gentlemen, that last post was a perfect example of Typing while under the influence.
Blessings

No - it's sour grapes because he got left behind.

[BUGEYE]

Isn't it strange that the Government trusts teachers to be in charge of our children for most of their young lives. Trusts them to teach our children lessons they'll carry all of their lives. Butttttt, our Government doesn't trust the same teachers to protect our children thus schools are gun free zones! Typical Goverment logic!

teachers  and  airline pilots  are all  too stupid to be trusted with a gun

LOL, that may be partly true today. but in my day at Delta, nearly every pilot were former fighter and bomber pilots.  Delta didn't bother with pilots from civilian flight schools.  they wanted men with cool heads and were proven.  sI figure if a pilot can be trusted with a B-52 and 50,000lbs of bomb, he can probably handle a 9mm.

I figure if a pilot can be trusted with a B-52 and 50,000lbs of bomb


that was my point

??

[AtlLaw]

teachers  ... are all  too stupid to be trusted with a gun

Okay, you're in trouble now mister!      I'm tellin my wife what you said!   
 
(I'm 8 beers into a six pack william)   

[williamlayton]

R
You don't speak for me when you say "all of us agree".
Folks---you miss the point. Armed is a liberty. Who said that only trained can protect theirownselves or others.
The point is, while we may fail, we are our own first line of defense and we should have the liberty to make that choice.
I dang sure don't want anyone telling me that I can't defend me.
Why are teachers not people? Why do you say that they must wait for help----did not do them any good in Conn.--while the sheriff got his posse together.
Folks nothing is perfect and the quicker you realize this  the sooner you will understand the need for individuals to take responsibility for theirownselves.
NOW--AT LAW---
Tellin on folks is not fair---beer or whiskey as an excuse is no defense under the law.
Blessings

[reliquary]

Okay, I concur that that are some teachers at some schools...a few, at least...who may be able to handle the responsibility of conducting an armed response to a threat.  I don't know of any I'd trust, except myself, and the subject never came up when I was still working.
 
At the local, rural school here, the main danger to the armed teacher would be the 22-year-old deputy and the boozer constable who would the first LEOs to get to the school.

[Brett]

Folks nothing is perfect and the quicker you realize this  the sooner you will understand the need for individuals to take responsibility for theirownselves.

Now these are words worthy of the lips of Solomon. 

[BUGEYE]

OFF TOPIC

ATLLAW. I followed your example and ordered a life member cap with the big gold letters.
$22 and change and well worth it.

[AtlLaw]

Good show 'Eye!      I remember when just about everybody in your area would be wearing one!   
 
I'm really supprised at the reactions I get when I wear mine.  Makes me want to wear it more!   

[nw_hunter]

Good show 'Eye!      I remember when just about everybody in your area would be wearing one!   
 
I'm really supprised at the reactions I get when I wear mine.  Makes me want to wear it more!   

Richard! That's because they think your Willie Nelson "On the road again"

[williamlayton]

There is a major difference between Law and Willie---and it aint the singing part.
Blessings

[guzzijohn]

Quote from wiliamlayton:
"There is a major difference between Law and Willie---and it aint the singing part."


Good looks?
GuzziJohn

[ironglow]

  When all other excuses fail, those who wish to promote the anti-gun agenda, tend to fall back on .."the high cost of armed guards"..
  Well, DUH!!  It need not cost very much at all, on an annual budget basis.  Before I retired, I saw some weird gyrations performed by the "fortune 500" corp I worked for.  In order to please the set-asides and quotas crowd, they sent an engineer friend of mine to a regional "job fair".. with instructions to "actively recruit women & minorities". 
    By the same token, there are young combat veterans now going to school on the GI Bill, who may well be aiming at teaching careers.  It could be just as easy when seeking new teachers tro hire, they can "actively recruit combat veterans"ethnicity & gender notwithstanding,  but choosing those who would specifically be willing to protect the children.
     As William said, are we supposed to consider that all teachers now working are 'shrinking violets' , unable to carry and fire a handgun?  I don't accept that notion!
   The possibility of any one teacher having to face a "high noon" moment is remote, but still we need protection.  Each person who carries could be furnished a stipend for the extra service.  A couple thousand dollars per  year along with a few hours each year in training should cover the cost.
      For 2 or 3 armed guards in each school at a cost of 4 to 6 thousand dollars is a small cost.  Likely, some schools pay that much for frivilous activities... probably spend more than that for football associated decorations & festivities..
 
  The antis' argument concerning "cost" is just another straw man.

[Old Fart]

Ironglow,
 
The topic of armed security being added to schools came up in a recent discussion here locally. I don't have it right in front of me but the dollar number for Oklahoma to fund all these new positions was north of $80 million at one per school building. That's one of the smaller population states. Just info.

[BUGEYE]

Ironglow,
 
The topic of armed security being added to schools came up in a recent discussion here locally. I don't have it right in front of me but the dollar number for Oklahoma to fund all these new positions was north of $80 million at one per school building. That's one of the smaller population states. Just info.

If the windows and doors were hardened, one person with a gun would probably be enough.
The school board here wastes enough money on their retreats to resort areas to pay for a lot of it.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from BUGEYE:
"If the windows and doors were hardened, one person with a gun would probably be enough.The school board here wastes enough money on their retreats to resort areas to pay for a lot of it."


The largest school district that I work for checked into get hardened glass doors for where we need glass and that is a lot of doors. Estimate was $8,000 a door.
GuzziJohn

[reliquary]

The last school district that I worked for that was interested in security had me work up a plan for them (one of my sidelines in the military police was "security").  The cost was way north of $5mil for fencing, cameras, campus cops, metal detectors at entrances, and secure doors/windows, and that was 1998.  After a shooting incident at the football stadium, they hired two campus cops and hardened the superintendent's building.  Over the last two years, they've fenced in parts of the perimeter and channeled vehicle flow through one entrance which is manned by a campus cop during school hours and events.  Half the perimeter is an unfenced woodline, but there is the all-important "illusion of security" with the campus cops. 
 
Most schools were built with "aesthetics" in mind "to enhance the learning environment".  At that school I mentioned above, there were floor-to-ceiling windows on the outer wall of each classroom, the outer wall of the "lobby/foyer", multiple doors for ease of student flow...which also meant access for bad guys..., no means of vehicle control, OMG at the number of weak points. 
 
But the schools in this area will routinely spend $5-10  million on upgrades to their football facilities and "multipurpose facilities"...euphemism for gyms and tracks.  Carthage, Texas, now has the largest video screen HS-level scoreboard in the US in a facility they've spent close to $8mil on over the last 5 years...but they do have three State championships to show for it...which is a LOT more important than security.   
 
I still fall back on my original statement:  most teachers aren't emotionally suitable for "carrying" to protect their students. Add to that:  most school districts aren't interested in security and won't be until they have a fatal incident.
 
 

[BUGEYE]

Quote from BUGEYE:
"If the windows and doors were hardened, one person with a gun would probably be enough.The school board here wastes enough money on their retreats to resort areas to pay for a lot of it."


The largest school district that I work for checked into get hardened glass doors for where we need glass and that is a lot of doors. Estimate was $8,000 a door.
GuzziJohn

That's not too much to protect our kids.  harden the doors and put metal bars on the INSIDE of the windows so folks can escape a fire.   OR, leave things like they are as a gun free zone and hope there's no crazies planning to kill some more little kids.

[Old Fart]

I don't think we can put a price on keeping our kids safe.
 
The problem is funding any solution. I believe there are some sound economically options. But most won't offer the glitz needed to impress the public.

[BUGEYE]

I don't think we can put a price on keeping our kids safe.
 
The problem is funding any solution. I believe there are some sound economically options. But most won't offer the glitz needed to impress the public.

Yep, everyone carries on about the tragic event at sandyhook until they start talking about the budget, and then they forget about those innocent "dead" children.

[guzzijohn]

What may happen like it has so often in the past that some sort of security requirements will end up being mandated but not funded.
GuzziJohn