Sabots for barnes

[Stoneybroke]

I've been shooting the Barnes bullets in my Knight MK-85 with great accuracy.  However, they are just about impossible to load in my Knight Disc Elite.  I'm wondering if anyone has tried a different Sabot with the Barnes bullet to ease the tight loading, and yes, I do I have the newer Barnes bullets that supposedly load easier.  Any and all input would be appreciated.  Stoney

[RandyWakeman]

http://www.mmpsabots.com

You probably don't have the latest sabots-- well worth a call to MMP.

[Stoneybroke]

Randy:  The Disc Elite in question is the one I purchased from you.  At the time of purchase, you warned me that the Barnes were darn near impossible to load.  The rifle will shoot about 2 & 1/2 inches with 348 powerbelts and 100gr of t7.  I'm tired of chaseing deer shot with the powerbelts.  I'll call mmp in the morning.  Thanks, Stoney

[RandyWakeman]

You must mean a Knight Extreme?

I was surprised how often MMP has updated their sabot formulas, most all having been updated since August of this year. Even some "new" bullets on the market don't have the latest sabots-- for one reason or another.

There must be more to the story than "chasing Powerbelt deer." I've heard of a few problems with flyweight Powerbelts, but never with the 348s or better on deer (or, elk, for that matter.)

Yes, I've found Barnes Red Hots very, very difficult to load in more than a few guns. Of late, the Winchester 260 Platinum Tips have been shooting well, and the 220 40 / 50 Dead Centers still have averaged the best for me in Knight / Thompson in-lines.

[mike3132]

Stoneybrooke,
The 250 Red Hots i purchased not long ago load very hard.  I mic'd the bullets at .451. The sabots that came with them are MMP's long sabot, I swithed them with Hornady High Pressure long sabots and the problem was solved. This was in a Savage 10 ML. With 45grns of 5744, 250 Barnes MZ this gun will shoot sub 1" groups @100 yds. Very good deer bullet. mike

[Stoneybroke]

Randy:  I stand corrected.  The rifle in question is the extreme.  I've got so many long guns, I can't keep them straight. (Grin)

 For me, the problems with the Powerbelts were twofold.  With 2 T7 pellets, the best accuracy I could get with the Extreme, was 2&1/2".  My MK85 will shoot the 250 Barnes into 1" pretty consistently.  My second problem was expansion, or to be more precise, lack of expansion.  I shot two average size deer with the 348 powerbelts.  Both were 100-125 yds in open foodplots.  Both deer were shot high in the lungs, and both deer got into an ajacent swamp.  Neither animal traveled 100yds, but 100 yds can be a long way in standing water and thick brush.  In both cases, penetration was complete, but expansion looked minimal.  In retrospect, I should have tried the HP Powerbelts.

I realize the Barnes is infamous for not expanding with similar hits, but if I had been shooting the MK85, I would have shot both deer in the neck.  I don't have enough confidence in the Powerbelts accuracy to try a neck shot over 50yds.  Stoney

[RandyWakeman]

I'd have to sort through a pile of old targets to get my notes straight. The Extreme did not do well at all with 295 gr. Powerbelts, but shot consistently sub-2" avg. with the 348 gr. PB, and the 405's as well. Are you getting the same results regardless of stocks?

My Encore shoots the 295s well, does not care for the other weights. The Austin & Hallecks, for some reason, shoot 348 + 405 Powerbelts amazingly well @ 1" consistently. Even with this Knight Elite, that seems to love Dead Centers, sprays 295 gr. Powerbelts, but does well with the 348's-- and does not care for the 260 gr. Knight Powerbelts particularly.

So, dunno. The Winchester Platinum Tips have done 1-1/4" - 1-1/2" in most guns, I believe Chuck Hill / Wolfhound both had 1-1/2" or better in their Extremes, Chuck was documenting 5-shot group averages at 1-1/2".

[Wolfhound]

So, dunno. The Winchester Platinum Tips have done 1-1/4" - 1-1/2" in most guns, I believe Chuck Hill / Wolfhound both had 1-1/2" or better in their Extremes, Chuck was documenting 5-shot group averages at 1-1/2".

Yep inch and a half average out of my Extreme. Randy, didn't you get better groups with a shorter sabot length than the ones that come with em? I was thinking that you said you did, but I can't remember for sure. One thing about them Winchester Platinum tips, they sure make nice exit wounds. :grin:

[Stoneybroke]

Randy: I'm shooting the regular stock.  Don't much care for the "Buck Rogers".  I am wondering about bedding.  Group disperion is much greater on the horizontal plane with all bullets.  Average vertical dispersion with 348 Powerbelts and Hornady SSTs (300gr) is only about 1".  This rifle really prefers the pellets.  In contrast. all of my other frontstuffers (4) prefer loose powder.  Go figure!  SAtoeny

[Wolfhound]

You don't like the thumbhole stock? :eek: That's the best one! :grin:

[RandyWakeman]

Randy, didn't you get better groups with a shorter sabot length than the ones that come with em? I was thinking that you said you did, but I can't remember for sure. One thing about them Winchester Platinum tips, they sure make nice exit wounds. :grin:

Yes, I sure did. But, it gets more convoluted than that. The shorter MMP sabots I used were recent polypropelene (changed in October).

The Winchester Platinum Tips, though "new" bullets-- come with MMP HPS 12 sabots, but not the "latest." They were updated in August. You can't tell the difference just by looking at them, but the newer polymer is stiffer / springier. So-- I need to shoot them again with the "new" HPS 12 sabots, and see if that changes things vs. the early 2003 HPS 12 sabots. That's all as clear as mud, isn't it?

[RandyWakeman]

I am wondering about bedding.  

With one recoil lug, the question is just what are you really bedding the action to?

[big6x6]

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=26055