armor piercing

[kennyd]

this is a vague term.  Are they talking about the hard point bullets that will cause a rupture in steel plate, coated bullets, or any bullet that will go through a helmet, or vest?


The gun club has already had to ban armor piercing (not hard ball mil stuff) as there is a water pipe buried behind the 100 yard berm (easement), tracers because of fire, and .50 based stuff for the same and the noise.  Also, no more full auto, the only ones who had them to start with that I saw were the cops, and there is a police range within ear shot where I know they still use them.

[BUGEYE]

I thought armor piercing was made from depleted uraniam.

[Gun Runner]

Yrs ago ran into a guy that had made some stainless steel 30 cal bullets using a lathe.  Dont know any thing about using a lathe, but they were .308 dia, and turned down to a sharp point. He said they would go thru an engine block at close range out of an 30/06. Wounder what it did to his bbl.

Gun Runner

[FPH]

I  had some WWII vintage 30.06 (or so I was told- in 1970's) which had black tips and I was told was suppose to be armor piercing.  We shot it at metal plate ( non hardened).  It would penetrate up to 3/8th".  Just made a nasty gouge in 1/2".

[gypsyman]

Armor piercing bullets have a steel core, instead of a lead core. Usually the bullet itself has a coat of paint, green or black usually, on it. But, after so many years, it rubs off. Easiest way to tell if it's steel core, is to take a magnet to the bullet. If it sticks, or pulls, it's got a steel core. Some of your imported ammo, has got a steel core. I've noticed alot of 7.62x54r ammo has the steel core. I had thought that at one time, that ap ammo was outlawed, because it had been proven to go thru bullet proof vests. But there is so much out there now, they either changed the law, or it really wasn't a law, just a ''rumor''. gypsyman

[LONGTOM]

My understanding of the law is that it is not illegal to own and shoot AP AMMO.
You may not sell, give or trade it to anyone but you are allowed to have it.
Not sure what you are to do if you decide you no longer want it and don't want to shoot it in your gun.
I guess you pull the bullets and throw them away.
The law may have changed since I heard this so please check for yourself, as I intend to do ASAP.
 
 

LONGTOM

[Brett]

If you are talking about soft body armor the .22mag and .17hmr will zip right threw it. 

[tom548]

In about 1971 I purchased a few boxes of the black tip AP for 1.00 per 100 beads. They will punch a 1/4" dia. hole thought 1/2" steel like it was drilled. They have a hard steel center, that after 1/2" of steel is still not deformed and the point is still very sharp.  The depleted uranium heads are for much larger rifle like the one on the A10 Warthog or the US main battle tank.

[RevJim]

 I'm sure it will end up being regular FMJ ammo...AND the "Non Lead Mono" bullets.

[LONGTOM]

For soft body armor any good hunting style, pointed bullet from a rifle lenght barrel will penatrate.
Even the old 30-30 lead tip round nose will punch a hole through 1/4" diamond plate at 50yds.
 
 
LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

There is a State run range near my home that I believe might set a record for 7.62X39 shots fired. I think most is FMJ maybe some AP. They have shot up the range with the stuff. Target holders destoryed , for sound they make you shoot thru. 3' dia concrete pipes that were about 10 feet long , they have cut the inside up on those.
 
  Once I shot with a sergent in the Marine corp. He had been shot with a 223 while wearing a vest . Broke 3 ribs . OUCH !
 

[Brett]

This is the slippery slope we put ourselves on when we allow the liberal government officials to enact "reasonable" gun  control measures. 

[FPH]

Talked to my friend this morning.  He remembers the ammo penetrating 1/2" plate(not drilling like) and gouging ( with one memorable ricochet) at 3/4 ".

[Awf Hand]

The gun club has already had to ban armor piercing (not hard ball mil stuff) as there is a water pipe buried behind the 100 yard berm (easement),

The water pipe is impervious to non-armor piercing bullets?  That seems silly.  The heaviest municipal water pipe I ever installed was cast iron and it could be broken with a hammer.  I would think a .38 could go through one side of it.  I know a .357 would pass through one side and bulge/crack the other.  If the pipe is buried that close to the impact area that they fear an armor piercing bullet will reach through the sand to hit it, it's only a matter of time and erosion 'til regular bullets do the same job.  You need fill.
 
This whole banning of armor piercing seems like another form of "grab" to me.  I wasn't aware that there was a rash of crime aided by the ability to pierce armor.  I had bought a lot of it a while ago and used it for paper punching.  I tested it and compared it to regular FMJ on some plate steel and found the penetrative improvement marginal at best.  It was about 3$ for a box of twenty 7.62x51 at the time, so I bought a fair bit and made some bangs.
 
-If I had a couple left, do I need to expend them?

[wolverine_1]

Back when I started reloading (mid '60's), I used to buy AP slugs from Hogdon for $3/100 and powder (reformulated military) as well from $3.00 per pound. Primers were $1 per 100.  I got them because they were cheap.  They had steel cores with a gliding metal surface so they did not affect the barrel of my .30-40 Krag.  Hope that helps.

[bilmac]

In about 1966 someone was shooting lots of them at a range I went to. I used to pick up lead to recast [poor broke college boy]. I found lots of the cores from AP bullets. They were about .25 in dia.and 3/4" long. I picked up a few to use as center punches. They are very sharp and very hard.

The standard NATO marking is a black tip.

[SHOOTALL]

The gun club has already had to ban armor piercing (not hard ball mil stuff) as there is a water pipe buried behind the 100 yard berm (easement),

The water pipe is impervious to non-armor piercing bullets?  That seems silly.  The heaviest municipal water pipe I ever installed was cast iron and it could be broken with a hammer.  I would think a .38 could go through one side of it.  I know a .357 would pass through one side and bulge/crack the other.  If the pipe is buried that close to the impact area that they fear an armor piercing bullet will reach through the sand to hit it, it's only a matter of time and erosion 'til regular bullets do the same job.  You need fill.
 
This whole banning of armor piercing seems like another form of "grab" to me.  I wasn't aware that there was a rash of crime aided by the ability to pierce armor.  I had bought a lot of it a while ago and used it for paper punching.  I tested it and compared it to regular FMJ on some plate steel and found the penetrative improvement marginal at best.  It was about 3$ for a box of twenty 7.62x51 at the time, so I bought a fair bit and made some bangs.
 
-If I had a couple left, do I need to expend them?

Most water main I have installed was either asbestos , poly , pvc or ductile iron . Most was ductile iron. Ductile iron would most likely stand uo to most bullets as it is very thick and cement lined , I have never seen cast iron used for domestic water as it is tar lined or if green not coated. I have seen XH cast iron used as condenser water lines though at very low pressure. just saying.

[buffermop]

Back in the early 70's I bought a box of 20 ammo, which were surplus military 30-06. They were armor piercing . Shot one through a 2 foot diameter oak tree , into a 1 foot diameter pine right behind it. Went about half way through the pine tree.

[RevJim]

For soft body armor any good hunting style, pointed bullet from a rifle lenght barrel will penatrate.
Even the old 30-30 lead tip round nose will punch a hole through 1/4" diamond plate at 50yds.
 
 
LONGTOM

Yep, and you can also bet that "this" (soft body armor) is the kind of "armor" they are talking about...not Police Cars or Armored Cars. A 9mm hardball fmj is an awesome penetrator, which means that even the 9mm Kurz (.380) will be outlawed too...there are many among the "peasantry"...
"...you call yourself a Loyal subject to the Crown?  "I don't call myself subject to much of anything at all..." (Last of the Mohicans)   I always think of this line whenever Britain and Australia gun laws are mentioned. The next line I think of is Matthew Quigley ",,,,we threw them out of our country..." or something like that, ha
I've carried/used many fmj rounds in handguns, used all sorts of rifles, for a tad over 50yrs ( my dad started me young) and in spite of all that "awesome, dangerous weaponry" Ted Kennedy's car STILL killed more people than my gun! ( Mary Joe)  I was taught never to shoot someone unless it was war or self defense, its against the (Moral) Law; so why is my Govt afraid of "me"?

[brettcar]

This just shows how ignorant our lawmakers really are. A fmj bullet will punch a small hole and break an arm or leg. A soft point bullet will pulverise the bone & the arm or leg must be amputated, or blow a 3 or 4 inch hole through someone. That's why it's illegal to hunt with fmj and the Geneva Convention forces our military to use fmj bullets. I would much rather be shot with a fmj.

[SHOOTALL]

This just shows how ignorant our lawmakers really are. A fmj bullet will punch a small hole and break an arm or leg. A soft point bullet will pulverise the bone & the arm or leg must be amputated, or blow a 3 or 4 inch hole through someone. That's why it's illegal to hunt with fmj and the Geneva Convention forces our military to use fmj bullets. I would much rather be shot with a fmj.

that said and true to a poimt a FMJ bullet will glance off things where a HP or SP will often expand on contact and either stop or use enough energy up to not be lethal or ruin its areodynamics and fall to the earth with out going a mile or more. Not to mention the steel core can cause a fire in an extreme case

[srussell]

armor piercing and steel core penetrate rounds are two differant things. the green tip 5.56 is a penetrater steel core. armore piercing is  carbide

[Victor3]

This just shows how ignorant our lawmakers really are. A fmj bullet will punch a small hole and break an arm or leg. A soft point bullet will pulverise the bone & the arm or leg must be amputated, or blow a 3 or 4 inch hole through someone. That's why it's illegal to hunt with fmj and the Geneva Convention forces our military to use fmj bullets. I would much rather be shot with a fmj.

 Not really...


http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

[SHOOTALL]

The FBI stats I saw state  that those shot with a rifle die over 90% of the time I don't want to be shot with any bullet from a rifle .  BTW what round from a US military rifle or carbine with issue ammo can be depended on to make bone explode leaving a 4 inch hole out the back side ?  And is this really a concern with 50 cal. 20 mm and larger ordance on the battle field ?

[BAGTIC]

'Armor piercing' says what it means. It was designed to penetrate armor. Bullets with unhardened steel cores are not armor piercing. AP bullets can have either hardened steel or carbide cores.
Attraction by a magnet doesn't prove the bullet is 'armor piercing'. Non armor piercing soft steel cores are also attracted by magnets. Furthermore much ball type ammo has steel jackets which themselves are attracted by magnets. Some countries are already adopting 'green' monolithic 'steel' bullets that are definitely non armor piercing as they are made of very soft iron to avoid bore erosion problems.