best attribue of a 1911

[Spirithawk]

Do the cops need more firepower? Not sure they do. Do they need equal firepower? Well remember the shootout in Hollywood with two bank robbers in full body armor? The police had to go to a local gun dealer and borrow rifles because they were getting creamed with the weapons they were issued.  They didn't discover needing at least equal firepower untill a few were dead or severely wounded. I think they should at least have the equipment at their disposal if needed. How would you feel facing a violent criminal with an AR15 or an AK and all you had was your sidearm?
My wife and I live out in the sticks. Our home is pretty secluded making us a seemingly easy target. Not only that but home invasions seem to be on the increse big time.  I've talked at length with Sheriff's Deputies and they have told me, " If possible fire a warning shot but if I think I or my wife are in imediate danger then shoot to kill. I even have their cards with their home phone numbers should something happen. I think most rural sheriffs offices expect rural folk to be able to protect themselve's as both they and we living way out know that help isn't going to come untill after something has already gone down. I also  think there is a world of differance in a big city police force and a rural one. I think rural LE's are more in touch with those they serve. You know, I've heard many say, " I'm a Christian. I don't know, nor even  think, that I could kill someone." Well to those I say, " God helps those that help themselve's!"

[SharonAnne]

full auto firearms are 100% legal by federal law. It is state law that restricts them. You can own a full auto firearms in 37 states, make that 38 since the AG in Michigan clarified things. Just takes a bunch of paperwork, a $200 tax stamp and then find one for sale that you can afford. Last I heard, an M16 was going for around $20,000. Thank the antis for that when the law came in that halted all new production.

[SHOOTALL]

It's really not a lot of paper work. Make a trust that has the weapons , suppressors etc. listed who owns it , who adminsters it and who it goes to at your death , have it noterized send it (a copy) with your ATF form and check. You do not have to go thru. finger printing and back ground check as the trust has the weapons . You do need to list reason for having it , like all legal uses . Then wait about 8 mos. At your death the admn. notifys the ATF of the transfeer to the new owner of the trust in writing , who will now be the adm. and the next person that will be in line to recieve the trust.
 like many things the myth is alot more complicated than the deal.

[SharonAnne]

thanks shootall. of course the big problem as always is $$$$ and finding one for sale.

[SHOOTALL]

thanks shootall. of course the big problem as always is $$$$ and finding one for sale.

Yep that is the hard part. I would find it hard to buy a full auto at todays prices . I kick myself when I think back to when M2 carbines were 7-900 bucks and a nice Thompson was under 5000 some under 2000 . Then there was the card board boxes with a blue and red label. One had all the parts less a tube / reciver and the other had a sticker you placed on the tube you got at a muffler shop or such took a dremil tool and cut out where marked and put a M3 together . Saw pallets of the boxes at gun shows but never a gun made from such. Not sure if there was a legal way to register one or not. I always shot skeet or hunted and never saw a need for full auto. But what an investment it could have been.

[SharonAnne]

Back in Michigan, I was invited on the local talk radio a few times since I chaired the largest gun club in the county, that all law enforcement agencies used.  I had some people attack for saying there was a good reason for sub machine guns, FUN. I explained that a sub machine gun was very difficult to shoot accurately, that it took thousands upon thousands of rounds of practice to get good with it and in reality it was an experts weapon since it cost so much to practice with.  I said "if, God forbid that I ever be shot at, I hoped it would be with a sub machine gun since the chances of being hit were quite low.

back to the best attributes of the 1911. A 1911 can be pretty much what you want it to be. It can fire loads barely above a squib for awesomely accurate paper punching. It can be snazzed up with all the bells, lights and whistles, and two horns. It can be small, say a 3" barrel. It can be large, say a Para wide body with a 6" slide and barrel with a comp shooting the mighty 460 Rowland or anything in between. In 1911 it was the very best true combat pistol in the world and still is. It has  a new name from Colt, the M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistol but it is still a 1911 with a few mods, nothing major.

Did you know that Colt has given every President 2 1911s? Bill Clinton is the only one EVER to decline the gift. What a fool.

[Bob Riebe]

I want those who believe they should or can have the same firepower of the military and police to go to bed tonight knowing that you cannot, that it will never happen for you, that you are nothing more than a civilian.  Be proud that you are an American citizen who obeys the law and who is entitled to the protection provided to you by police and military.  If you can't do that, then you are a potential  outlaw and a wannabe Rambo.  Get real.  Wake up.  Understand that what you have as an American is more than any other nation has.   

Any person can have portable weapons, including canons, if the person gets the correct class permit from the Federal Government.
I have an ATF book, which I am not going to slog through again, once is enough, and with a class 2 one can own, transport and manufacture any man portable firearm in existence.
If one wants to pay the price, and it is not that expensive, one would be amazed at what one can legally own.
I have shot a privately owned Solothurn anti-tank weapon with which one could reach out and turn any human into chopped pork at long range.

The president people can thank for putting sub-machine guns out of the price range of the average person is Ronald Reagan.
He signed the law that made it illegal, for a non class 2 or 3 owner, to own a NEW machine gun driving the price of pre-86 guns through the roof.

The Second Amendment exists to protect the civilian populace AGAINST the government and for NO OTHER REASON.

[williamlayton]

Last paragragh is well stated Bob.
The last I heard, it was not susposed to be a fair fight---seems like you are in this thing for the duration and that is susposed to be as short as possible and winning is not a second option.
Blessings

[SharonAnne]

MiV is still under delusions. The Supreme Court has ruled that civilians have no right of protection from the police. The military exist to protect us from foreigners, not civilians. It is supposed to be illegal for the military to be used against ANY civilians on American soil. So, no help there either.

[Mike in Virginia]

Police are not totally reactive in the sense they are only called after something's happened.  Many times they find it themselves and many times it's still occurring when they arrive.
Another point is that it's been centuries since non-military citizens of the U.S. got together to fight a foreign power.
You want the same firepower as police and military?  Go ahead and get it, but I can't imagine where you'll put it.  You might want to dig out that goldfish pond a little bigger for your aircraft carrier(s).   

[Mikey]

MIV: " Police are not totally reactive in the sense they are only called after something's happened.  Many times they find it themselves and many times it's still occurring when they arrive".   This may be true on occasion but it is such a rare occurance that 'the citizenry' might have significant difficulty considering the police as a preventative force, which would lead 'the citizenry' to determine that the best means of defense against crime is self defense. 
 
And yes, it may have been centuries since the 'non-military citizens of the US' got together to fight a foreign power - man, I don't know about you but as a former US Army Officer and veteran I hardly consider myself a 'non-military citizen'.  I may no longer serve in uniform but I have hardly forgotten a damn thing about serving under arms and every veteran I speak to feels the same. 
 
As for firepower - naw, I don't want the military's crew served weapons, I'll stick with the small arms - much more effective  in the cities and around buildings.  I don't need mortars and artillery fire if I'm sniping at police patrols, my huntin' rifles will serve that purpose and if I want a M16/M4 for cqc I will just take one from a cop.  And I'll store it in my closet until I need it again. 
 
You seem to forget the combat veterans who came before you and who taught those who taught you how to do what you think you do best, and then fail to understand why we shake our heads trying to figure out where those we taught went wrong in teaching you.  But, you may yet learn.

[SHOOTALL]

lets just put it out on the table , many in America over the years have run from responsiblity and hired police to take care of bad guys etc. The police have ask for and more often than not got laws to make their job easier . Now we approch a police state in some respects and have just woke up. So what is to be done ? Well the right to carry is a start . The stand your ground laws are a start. The people need to take back the responsiblity and use the cops as an assistance not an end to a problem.

[Spirithawk]

I have to say I agree with Shootall. Much as I said earlier, at least in my neck of the woods, LE expects folks to be able to defend themselve's and in fact encourages it.
 
Back to the intent of this thread.....Best attribute of my 1911 is simple. It's best attribute is that it's mine!

[SharonAnne]

when seconds count the police are just minutes away. The best attribute of the 1911 is it is here now. I do not have to wait for it. And, it tends to be decisive.

[mcwoodduck]

Do the cops need more firepower? Not sure they do. Do they need equal firepower? Well remember the shootout in Hollywood with two bank robbers in full body armor? The police had to go to a local gun dealer and borrow rifles because they were getting creamed with the weapons they were issued. The local politicals took away the slugs and buck shot and they only had #4 shot in their scatter guns.  Had they had slugs or buck then the fight would have been very different. They didn't discover needing at least equal firepower untill a few were dead or severely wounded. I think they should at least have the equipment at their disposal if needed. How would you feel facing a violent criminal with an AR15 or an AK and all you had was your sidearm?
My wife and I live out in the sticks. Our home is pretty secluded making us a seemingly easy target. Not only that but home invasions seem to be on the increse big time. I alsway worry about Holloween, you expect to see people in masks late at night and I keep a gun on me and my distance when handing out candy.  I've talked at length with Sheriff's Deputies and they have told me, " If possible fire a warning shot (remember that a warning shot can travel a long way and you are responsible for where that round goes.)  but if I think I or my wife are in imediate danger then shoot to kill. I even have their cards with their home phone numbers should something happen. I think most rural sheriffs offices expect rural folk to be able to protect themselve's as both they and we living way out know that help isn't going to come untill after something has already gone down. I also  think there is a world of differance in a big city police force and a rural one. I think rural LE's are more in touch with those they serve.(I agree, in town I had police look at me funny for walking the dog with the leash in my hand out in the sticks the cops will pull over and tell me I should carry a gun against the coyotes, but be carefull if you discharge a gun at one) You know, I've heard many say, " I'm a Christian. I don't know, nor even  think, that I could kill someone." Well to those I say, " God helps those that help themselve's!"

[mcwoodduck]

I have to say I agree with Shootall. Much as I said earlier, at least in my neck of the woods, LE expects folks to be able to defend themselve's and in fact encourages it.
 
Back to the intent of this thread.....Best attribute of my 1911 is simple. It's best attribute is that it's mine!

But the intent of the thread was that the 1911 is not on the anti gunners hit list.  The other day the VP said all you need is a Double barreled shotgun.  Make two warning shots and no one will bother you.  He said that all you need is two rounds, that the best thing is a shotgun.  and he said you did not need an assault rifle with 30 rounds all you needed was 2 in an double barrel shotgun.  I am sure if you asked him about a hand gun he would send you to a shotgun, even if you only have one hand, are not able to hold a shot gun or can not handle the recoil of even mild shot shells. 

[williamlayton]

Before many were military they were civilians and most all of them went back to being that.
I have some problems with a professional military---that is another discusssion.
In all the wars I have studied--between the wars, those professionals, prepared to not fight a war. When it happened, they started fighting the last war again.
So many General officers, at the start of WWII, had to be fired and sent to desk jobs that we fell behind until we could find men who could and would fight this war.
I think much can be said about Viet Nam---unfortunately Johnson didn't know anything but still ran the show---looks like he never read what happened when Hitler did this in WWII---we never fought that war as it should have been fought. It was a losing political war because VN was not about making deals--political deals.
We got our act together in the sand box and are doing pretty well understanding what kind of a war we are dealing with. In the sandbox the best part of the whole mess was that the Generals in the field kept the Pentagon at bay and took charge.
All citizen soilders.
Blessings

[Mikey]

Thank Goodness that Biden is such a butthead, he makes others look good.  And, of course, he never said a thing about reloading, did he........

[mcwoodduck]

Thank Goodness that Biden is such a butthead, he makes others look good.  And, of course, he never said a thing about reloading, did he........

OK lets look at the moron's statment.
1 Discharge two rounds as a warning shot.  This could be dangerous to others around you as who knows where someone paniced will send those two shots.
2 you now have an unloaded firearm. If all we are allowed to own are two shot guns then the intruder will know you have an empty gun and will race to attack you so you do not have time to reload. 
3 as people are injured by the warning shots, and more people are attacked by intruders after they unload their guns the government will call that the best defense firearm is dangerous to others around and does not stop attacks and triesto take them.

[SharonAnne]

the gov' does not protect me, I do. With what I have, as I see fit. No warning shots. Center shots.