Author Topic: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!  (Read 2213 times)

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Offline evan1395

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Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« on: January 24, 2013, 01:30:33 PM »
So, instead of dumping my whole tax return into a realy nice Remington 12 Gauge (as I was planning on doing). I think I would like to buy a cheaper H&R Pardner Pump and putthe est of my mone t te aterials forreloading for .45-70 rounds. I realize the first thing I am going to need to do is grab a manual and read a bunch.
 
After the manual is bought and the researching is done, I would like to find a nice reloader starter kit. As mentioned in the title I will be reloading for my H&R Handi Rifle .45-70. I have come to find the immence ammount of money I have been spending on the ammo is absolutely ridiculous. So, with that being said, I am getting my foot into the door of handloading my own cartridges!
 
As for kits for a first time reloader, what would you guys suggest? I'd like a benchtop press I suppose, which I find the easiest and most reasonable way of reloading. I was at one time considering just to buy a Classic Lee Reloader Kit, you know the one that you use the hammer with instead of a press. For some reason I am turned off by that now. I realize I will need a scale, a micrometer, casing trimmer and a set of dies for my selected press.
 
Is there anything I am missing (besides the bullets, powder and primers)? Is a tumbler and shell cleaner neccessary? What else, as a newcomer to reloading, should I buy for my .45-70 reloading? First thing I will purchase is a nice reloading manual as stated previously. However I do not believe that will inform me on what EXACTLY to purchase to make my reloading proccess efficient and somewhat simple. Which is where the good ol' boys on Graybeard come into play :D Throw it at me guys. I'd like to have a list written down beside me with all the must-haves for me to start reloading.
 
Any and ALL input is very much appreciated!!
 
-Evan
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
a  good  sturdy  reloading  bench  or  table  ,  heavy  enough  to   take  the  shake  ,rattle  and  roll.   Is  a  good place  to  start

Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2013, 01:51:11 PM »
a  good  sturdy  reloading  bench  or  table  ,  heavy  enough  to   take  the  shake  ,rattle  and  roll.   Is  a  good place  to  start

Check..
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Offline Nobade

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 03:07:12 PM »
Ebay and Craigslist can be your friends here.... keep an eye open. Also local sporting goods stores if they sell used equipment.  You won't need a huge super duty press but try to find a good one and good dies and you'll only have to buy them once.
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Offline Grumpybear

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 05:15:22 AM »
You mentioned most of what you need already.
 
Sturdy bench
press ( I like the heavier presses single stage ones)
scale ( simple beam scale is reliable for this)
powder dippers ( lee is good but any brass or stainless spoon will work)
manual
loading book
manual
loading book   ;D    ( 1 or more loading manuals is good)
primer cleaner ( I use a small hand cleaner for last 40 years  works good)
 
dies for caliber
shell holder for caliber
powder funnel  ( any funnel will work but ones made for shells will sit on cartridge)
 another manual   ;D
 
As you can tell I like several manuals around, I check loads against one another for consistancy.
 
A cleaner is not neccessary but nice, I use a sonic cleaner, but you can whipe em done with anything to get the dirt off.
 
My procedure: decap primers
clean
size
flair cartridge mouth
prime
charge with powder
seat bullet
crimp
 
all in single steps except for two, when I charge a shell I seat the bullet next, this keeps me from chargeing the same shell twice.
 
goodluck and happy loading   Grumpy
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Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 11:33:27 AM »
You mentioned most of what you need already.
 
Sturdy bench
press ( I like the heavier presses single stage ones)
scale ( simple beam scale is reliable for this)
powder dippers ( lee is good but any brass or stainless spoon will work)
manual
loading book
manual
loading book   ;D    ( 1 or more loading manuals is good)
primer cleaner ( I use a small hand cleaner for last 40 years  works good)
 
dies for caliber
shell holder for caliber
powder funnel  ( any funnel will work but ones made for shells will sit on cartridge)
 another manual   ;D
 
As you can tell I like several manuals around, I check loads against one another for consistancy.
 
A cleaner is not neccessary but nice, I use a sonic cleaner, but you can whipe em done with anything to get the dirt off.
 
My procedure: decap primers
clean
size
flair cartridge mouth
prime
charge with powder
seat bullet
crimp
 
all in single steps except for two, when I charge a shell I seat the bullet next, this keeps me from chargeing the same shell twice.
 
goodluck and happy loading   Grumpy
I there a specific chemical for cleaning brass cases?
My favored cleaner/de-gummer for any surface, is good ol' gasoline...or brake cleaner. Think this will work fine for my dirty cases?
Is a primer cleaner exactly what it sounds like? Does it just clean out the hole that the primer goes into on the casing?
And when time comes to "flair" the cartridge mouth (resize it?), how do I go about doing that? Do I need to buy a certain attachment for my selected press?

 
Thanks a bunch Grumpy!
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Offline Grumpybear

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 12:27:25 PM »
For cleaning the cases I use Hopps bore cleaner on a rag befor I got the sonic cleaner. My goal was not to shine up the brass as much as geting all the dirt and burnt powder off the case so as to not get the dies dirty.
 
The primer cleaner I use is like a small screw driver. It fits in the primer pocket and scratches out the crudd in there, Kinda of uniforms the primer pockets a little bit also.
 
When its all said and done you can go crazy with all the gizmo's for loading, but once you have the basic equpment and a little experance you can deciede on the usefullness of the other stuff.
 
The bigest thig is to read, read and read some more.
Get a loading manual and read some more
Then follow the min and max restrictions in the load manual
Go slow untell you understand how it all works together
 
have fun   Grumpy
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Offline geezerbiker

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 10:51:47 PM »
You could get by with a Lee hand press and a set of dies.  I loaded with one of these during my college years when I didn't have a place to bolt down my RCBS press.  I still use it from time to time.

There's no reason to break the bank to get started in reloading.  Get the basics to start with and add to it over time.

Tony

Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 06:26:03 AM »
You could get by with a Lee hand press and a set of dies.  I loaded with one of these during my college years when I didn't have a place to bolt down my RCBS press.  I still use it from time to time.

There's no reason to break the bank to get started in reloading.  Get the basics to start with and add to it over time.

Tony
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/423081/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-anniversary-kit
How about this kit Tony? Looks like it has everything I will need. I plan on buying a hand primer and a caliper as well.
Anyother must haves?
 
Thanks!
 
 
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 07:50:57 AM »
evan
 
That kit would work fine to start , you'll need to pick up a set of dies yet ( lee's come with the shell holder ) most others don't . For case cleaning you can get by with some 0000 steelwool and a piece of old t-shirt just to get them clean , perty doesn't make them shoot any better  ;)
 
Make sure you start with at least 1 good manual , either the Lyman or Lee , both are good to start with as they both cover the basics very well , also a set of Calipers will come very handy to check your OL cartridge length .
 
stimpy
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Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 11:07:46 AM »
evan
 
That kit would work fine to start , you'll need to pick up a set of dies yet ( lee's come with the shell holder ) most others don't . For case cleaning you can get by with some 0000 steelwool and a piece of old t-shirt just to get them clean , perty doesn't make them shoot any better  ;)
 
Make sure you start with at least 1 good manual , either the Lyman or Lee , both are good to start with as they both cover the basics very well , also a set of Calipers will come very handy to check your OL cartridge length .
 
stimpy
Thanks  for keeping it simple Stimpy. So I will basically need the .45-70 die set frm lee, a caliper and I believe I will buy another scale. I heard mixed things about that safety scale that is included with the kit.
I actually just spent the morning in front of my computer watching youtube videos on reloading proccess for the .45-70 while scrubbing all my brass with steel wool. They came out excellent. I will most likely invest in a cheaper tumbler as time goes on. Hand scrubbing 200+ .45-70 cases was a workout!
Now Stimpy I found some 405 grain bullets I may buy when the time comes. What do think about these? Any reason why I should not use them?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/796585/oregon-trail-laser-cast-bullets-45-70-government-459-diameter-405-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-250
 
 
 
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 11:14:32 AM »
Evan
 
OT makes some great bullets , I shot them till I started casting my own a couple years ago , as for a tumbler the Lyman 600 is a good started model , holds around 200 - 223s or 150 - 45/70s .
 
stimpy
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Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 11:19:54 AM »
Evan
 
OT makes some great bullets , I shot them till I started casting my own a couple years ago , as for a tumbler the Lyman 600 is a good started model , holds around 200 - 223s or 150 - 45/70s .
 
stimpy

Excellent to hear. So if I were to go with those, when gandering through the reloading info, those specific bullets fall under the "400-405gr LFP" category, right?
 Are these able to go over any powder or strictly just the trailboss? Sorry if im asking too much. I know it'd be easier if I had a manual here in front of me.
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 11:35:39 AM »
I like to shoot them over Re7 and Unique , the 7 will get you in the 1500 to 1600 fps range , but you need to use a lot more to gain that extra couple hundred fps .
 
stimpy
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Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 11:49:21 AM »
I like to shoot them over Re7 and Unique , the 7 will get you in the 1500 to 1600 fps range , but you need to use a lot more to gain that extra couple hundred fps .
 
stimpy

1500-1600fps is about the max FPS for these 405 gr slugs isn't it?
I'm jus going off what I hve been reading online
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45-70&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source
So far this is where I have been getting my references. It says with 50.0grains of H4198 they can reach 2000fps. O.O
However if you are suggesting I stick with those certain powders under the 405's, I will do so.
 
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Offline cudatruck

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 11:59:21 AM »
Evan, just a heads up, Midway has the frankford digital scale on sale for 20 bucks, it is accurate enough and WAY faster than the balance beam type. the little scale that comes with the lee kit works very well though. lee powder measure works good but does leak with powders like bullseye. the hand priming tool i have from lee is the old round one, it works, but the new one has a square tray to fit the boxes the primers come in, MUCH better. I have found loading my rifle cases it's sometimes just as easy to prime on the press. If you are going to shoot cast boolits check with the other guys, some dont resize or expand a fired case if using a oversize boolit.

Offline squid920

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 10:12:20 PM »
Just to jump in Evan your in luck I'm trading my 45-70 barrel to a person on this site and he has dies already.
So I have a set of dies and a 45-70 loading manual. (lee dies)
Used in good shape.  shot me a offer and we can work somthing out.

Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2013, 07:12:28 AM »
Just to jump in Evan your in luck I'm trading my 45-70 barrel to a person on this site and he has dies already.
So I have a set of dies and a 45-70 loading manual. (lee dies)
Used in good shape.  shot me a offer and we can work somthing out.

Hy man all this reloading stuff is new to me. I know Lee Dies brand new cost $29.99 Midwayusa. Can't really see spending quite that much on a used set. As for the manual, another head scratcher for me. How about YOU shoot ME the offer :D I'd really appreciate buying stuff used and cheaper than new and expensive.
Thank a bunch buddy!
 
-Evan
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Offline bucco921

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2013, 08:38:30 AM »
Evan, I started with a lee hand press( still use it when I want to resize some cases from the recliner). I've since gathered a room full of stuff mostly through Craigslist and the local gun stores that sell used equipment. I've gathered quite a collection of equipment in my reloading room and probably 75% of it is used. I bought the lee hand press new, the Lyman 49th manual, rcbs scale used and 223 dies used. I've filled in the rest as I have went along. I guess the point I'm getting at is you don't need a boat load of money to get started.

Offline geezerbiker

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2013, 12:31:34 PM »
I agree on the Lee scale.  Get a RCBS 502 or better and you'll be fine.  The cheaper RCBS scales are slower to use not less accurate.   

Other than that the Lee kit is a good place to start.  If you don't like reloading then you can sell it and not have lost too much.  I enjoy reloading and it's all part of the shooting experience but that probably explains my large collection of reloading equipment and supplies...

Tony

Offline sr sawyer

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2013, 06:20:09 PM »
My advice is to buy the best you can afford at this time.  If you later decide this is not your cup of tea you will be able to recoup most of the cost, if not all, of your investment.
 
JMO.  Lyman has the best beginners manual.  Luck with your project.
 
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Offline petemi

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2013, 11:40:47 PM »
I like to shoot them over Re7 and Unique , the 7 will get you in the 1500 to 1600 fps range , but you need to use a lot more to gain that extra couple hundred fps .
 
stimpy

1500-1600fps is about the max FPS for these 405 gr slugs isn't it?
I'm jus going off what I hve been reading online
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45-70&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source
So far this is where I have been getting my references. It says with 50.0grains of H4198 they can reach 2000fps. O.O
However if you are suggesting I stick with those certain powders under the 405's, I will do so.

I bought the Lee Anniversary kit when I started about 3 years ago.  It's great, except for the scale.  I didn't like it, but I had a RCBS left over from my ML days and the rest of it worked fine.

My long range (300 yard) hunting load is the 405 over IMR4198 for 1950 fps.  It isn't something you want to shoot all day :'(   It will bang flop a 200 lb whitetail at that distance.  A lighter bullet and a load shooting at 14 or 15 hundred fps. is a lot more fun.

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Offline kennyd

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2013, 03:38:25 AM »
Lee 2.8 dipper struck even with 4759.  Gives avg. 1560 with a 405 Remington.  Easy to do.   Powder fills the case pretty well, but right now you will have to go on what is available, too.   Believe me, this is all you want if you shoot the handi much. Broke blood vessels in my shoulder benching 30 rounds in a .22 inch standard handi.


I use vinegar as a case cleaner diluted.  Soap for cleaning any dirt.  Be sure to DRY them well.


The .4570 is the one rifle that cost so much, even back when, that I never bought any factory stuff, just brass, and bullets.  I already was into reloading. Mostly, I still use the Lee hand press because of limited room.  A lee hand primer is wirth it.
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Offline lrrice

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2013, 06:58:04 PM »
You gotta watch e-bay, a Lee kit that is $118 from Midway new was up to $240 with 25 bids on it. 

That said, the lee classic turret kit is their most expensive non progressive and is well worth the money.  If you don't believe it, try to find a used one for sale, they're not available.  The scale is a little finicky but works until you are ready for a better one.  Any of lee's stuff will get you by and you wont have to rob a bank to get it.  And new turrets, breech lock bushings and other accessories are also affordable.  I started out with a Lyman turret and found that the little things cost so much that I have gradually traded of most of it and bought Lee stuff.  I would suggest the cast steel presses, either single stage or turret if you can afford them but don't be scared of the aluminum ones cause they will last a long time.

I load for my Handi and if its the only 4570 your loading for, just size the brass enough to hold the bullet, expand it just enough that it doesn't shave the bullet and crimp it just enough to remove the flare from the expander.  That way you brass will last a long long time.

I shoot the Lee 500 grn cast out of pretty soft lead and find it to work very well with 26.5 grains of 2400 for serious or 16ish grains of Unique for playing.  Both are very economical.  The fun thing about the 45-70 is that you can load it from powder puff loads to what the h3!! just hit me.  Lyman has aot of cast load information and you can get it in one of the little caliber specific load books.  They won't replace a good manual but they have a lot of good load data in them.

One word of caution using powders like unique and 2400 is to be super careful because you can easily double charge.  I measure in the powder then immediately set the bullet so there is no question.

Offline GH1

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 12:17:15 AM »
I use 405's in my Handi  on top of 30 gr AA 5744.  5744 is  bulky stick powder that does a great job of filling the monstrous 45-70 case. 30 gr will give you about 1400 FPS, give or take. You really don't need much more than that, the original black powder load was moving about 100 FPS slower than that and was used to kill buffalo.
Anyway, you picked a great cartridge to load for, lotsa data and components available.
GH1 :)
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Offline JPShelton

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
If my press is bench mounted, it better be progressive, blue in color, and say "Dillon" somewhere on it... :)  I highly recommend them for handloaders of all experience levels.  Great product and outstanding customer service.
 
I haven't used my Dillon in about five years, because I don't have room for a bench to mount it on.
 
I've been handloading with the only press I've ever bought (Dillon was a gift) -a Lee Hand Press..  I've used it extensively for nigh on 30 years now and it still looks and performs as new.  The dies I use with it are Lee Pacesetters or Deluxe with Collet Neck Sizer, depending on the caliber I'm loading for.  They're inexpensive but have provided me with great service.  The scale I use is the Hornady magnetic dampened balance beam unit.  I prime with an RCBS hand priming tool.  I prefer that over the Lee product because the latter uses special shell holders, while the former uses the same ones presses do.  I have an old Lyman case trimmer that I use, too.
 
After every firing, I tumble my cases in walnut shell media sweetened with jewler's rouge.  I think doing so is important for the longevity of the dies and the chambers of my guns, and I also have a measure of pride in anything I do that resembles work, so I want the cases to LOOK good as well as BE good.
 
I don't save any money by handloading.  I have a shooting sports budget that's itemized, and around the first of the year, I determine how much I am going to spend and what I am going to spend it on.  I keep records of purchases, too, so I know how much I've spent and what I spent it on.  Thanks to our stellar economy, I've decided to cut back so I am budgeting a lesser amount for centerfire rifle this year than in the past few, but I'll spend the money allocated to centerfire rifle whether I load the ammo myself or a factory does it for me.  What I get out the deal is the ability to do three to four times more shooting on that same money than I would do if all of my ammo was factory made.  If I had to replace every tool in my Hand Press set up with new, I would have to load fifteen boxes of .250 Savage before I started seeing any reduction in cost per round.  With something fairly cheap in factory form like the .30-30, it would take almost double that to realize any "savings."  I shot a 9mm in various law enforcement shooting comps for ten years and never bothered to reload for it because I could get factory ammo cheaper than I could load it.  I don't handload for my 7.62 NATO M-48 Mauser because I have a stockpile of NATO spec. surplus that I paid less for than I can handload a duplicate round for.  So there are situations where handloading doesn't save you money and doesn't let you shoot more on the money that you do spend.
 
No one in my circle of association who handloads does so expecting to save money and they don't use savings as an excuse to do it.  They are going to spend as much as they can on ammo regardless of the source it comes from.  So they don't save money but get to do more shooting on the money they spend.
 
For me, the benefit is being able to shoot more on the money I spend, the ability to tune loads to extract the performance I hope for out of the rifle I shoot, and to increase cartridge versatility over factory offerings.  An example of a rifle and cartridge combo that one might absolutely have to handload for is my Ruger M-77RL Ultralight in .250 Savage.  Pencil thin barrels can be kind of picky about diet, and that gun has a really skinny barrel.  There are exactly two factory loads available, both with 100 grain bullets.  I'm lucky with this one because it shoots Remington factory ammo really well, but what if it didn't?  The only other option in factory ammo presently is a Winchester load, but what if it hated that load, too?  The versatility of the round is compromised by limited factory fare, too.  Handloading makes that rifle much more useful and lets me shoot it more.
 
JP

Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 12:40:46 PM »
I know most .45-70 bullets come in .458" diameter. Does anyone know if Handi Rifles can or will shoot the slightly larger .459" bullets, like thos 405gr Oregon Trail flat nose bullets I posted earlier?
 
I was informed to check and see if our Handi .45-70 barrels liked to shoot these .459" bullets.
 
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline DeckH

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 01:08:51 PM »
 ::) Funny, but unless I missed it reading the posts, no one mentioned lubricating the cases PRIOR to resizing.  You will need some type of lubricator and lubricant.  A stuck case is no fun.....

Offline evan1395

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 01:18:55 PM »
::) Funny, but unless I missed it reading the posts, no one mentioned lubricating the cases PRIOR to resizing.  You will need some type of lubricator and lubricant.  A stuck case is no fun.....
I too was waiting for someone to inform me of this. HoweverI had already learned this on a youtube video. You just lube about every 5th or 6th one, right? Just to keep them from sticking in the dies?
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline YRUpunting?

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Re: Would like to start reloading for my .45-70 Handi!!!!
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2013, 01:57:10 PM »
::) Funny, but unless I missed it reading the posts, no one mentioned lubricating the cases PRIOR to resizing.  You will need some type of lubricator and lubricant.  A stuck case is no fun.....
I too was waiting for someone to inform me of this. HoweverI had already learned this on a youtube video. You just lube about every 5th or 6th one, right? Just to keep them from sticking in the dies?

I like this one.  There will be a lot of opinions on case lube.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00005393299