Author Topic: The end of some more TC'S ! (Read 2031 times)

30HERRETT · « **on:** January 26, 2013, 03:33:57 AM »

Saw this on another forum

I just got the following response from Thompson Center concerning sidelocks. I asked if they are making any, and will they still do warranties.

Reference number: LTK51403787313X Please use this ticket number in any correspondence with us.
Subject: Sales and Warranty
Dear Customer,
We have discontinued traditional side lock rifles. We do not plan on making anymore. The lifetime warranty on all of our guns will be honored discontinued or not.
Sincerely,

Rachel Turgeon
Thompson Center Arms
Customer Service

IronBrigade · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2013, 04:03:52 AM »

This is really sad,

T/c made a great smokepole, I have owned several.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2013, 09:32:33 AM »

that's one of the most
sad and disheartening
things i've ever read.

Frontstuffer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2013, 10:43:19 AM »

That's one reason I just picked up the High Plains Sporter yesterday.

As Will Rogers observed ,They ain't makin' anymore...

Hellgate · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2013, 06:28:27 AM »

I will try to control my rant. The way they make "muzzle loaders" today they might as well just have a "single shot rifle" hunt. With internal ignition, scopes, shotgun primer ignition, pelleted powder, saboted bullets, etc. they are nothing primative. Why not let guys with Sharps, Ruger #1s and Trapdoor Springfields have a "primitive hunt" too. They're almost the same other than a little faster to reload, I love the history and looks of the sidelocks. TC made some of the best. They must be making a killing on more conventional rifles that can be scoped, barrel swapped and doo-dadded up therefore a rededication to more profitable lines of manufacture. A shame.

Nobade · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2013, 10:28:17 AM »

They do let those rifles be used in the "primitive" hunts in Mississippi and maybe other states.

Gather up your TC rifles, boys, and enjoy your piece of American history! Jeez, this is about like listening to the oldies station on the radio. The stuff I listened to in high school is oldies now. Guess TC rifles are in the same category now.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2013, 03:55:31 AM »

I think T/C was their own worst enemy with the traditionals. With a flooded used market it doesn't make sense to spend nearly $800. You can get a custom built one or buy a fancy kit and have it built by someone for that. Good used Hawkens go for 250-350 regularly on gun broker. If I didn't mind getting whooped in the cheek with every shot I would definitely go that route and have 2 or 3 for the price of a new one. I imagine lyman is a major competitor for them. The GPR goes from 350-450 used a lot of times. That's bad when they are about 300 cheaper when new.

bubba.50 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2013, 05:59:39 AM »

does anybody else wonder how that "lifetime warranty" is gonna hold up if they're not makin' the guns/parts anymore?

theratdog · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2013, 08:05:05 PM »

that's bad news i have seven of them quality rifles.

30HERRETT · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2013, 05:46:48 AM »

A person in AZ sent a 36 Patriot to TC the other day with a cracked stock .

We told him not to do it !

TC kept the gun and sent him a check for $125.00 !

I think I would be getting a lawyer .

Bugflipper · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2013, 05:44:37 AM »

I emailed them about a seneca stock that had a drying crack on it. I sent detailed pictures in the email. Didn't really get a reply, just a copy and paste of their warrantee. Emailed them a second time stating that I appreciated the copy of the warrantee, I had already read it and was trying to see what the next step was since it was a warrantee issue. Got the same copy and paste as the first time with no response again.
Called, got transfered here and there finally got a response that I didn't care for, but at least a stand on it none the less. The seneca had been out of production to long and there were no stocks remaining. I asked how they intended to honor lifetime warrantees if they didn't keep a supply of parts on hand? The lady told me that the custom shop was handling warrantee claims but they closed down. Now there was no one to make the stocks for the out of production rifles. I asked if that included the more recent ones as well, since I had a renegade stock that was bad as well. She confirmed all stocks besides the current hawken. She stated that they had been sending checks out to reimburse owners of previous models. I told her I'd just try to fix it myself. So in turn I glued it up, then when almost dry sanded over it to match the wood. From there of corse I had to redo the whole stock. Glad I didn't take the money if that is all they are giving. I'm not into the pistols but have seen patriots going for $400 plus.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2013, 06:34:14 AM »

The Lifetime warranty means nothing, they are already out of most parts. T/C priced themselves out of the market, perhaps that was unavoidable, I don't know. You could buy a Lyman Trade Rifle, the Italian clone of the T/C Hawken for about half the price, or a Lyman Great Plains, a better rifle more like a true Hawken, for 2/3 the price of a T/C. For resale value the T/C Hawken has to be about the worst investment you could make, excellent condition used rifles selling for 1/3 of new retail. Maybe now that they are no longer being made the used gun value may climb, that seems to happen with most discontinued guns, but it won't happen overnight.

Ladobe · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2013, 12:49:33 PM »

My opinion only to be taken as such... The writing has been on the wall for a very long time re TC's traditional MLer's. Started with dropping lines they didn't sell enough of (for whatever reason) only to bring out others that didn't sell well, the hole dug deeper with the plant fire, S&W buying them out, etc, even the move to in-lines and new modern firearm models was an attempt to resurrect lost sales. Just business, if you don't make the sales numbers you want... ta ta and move on. Didn't help that they also lost key people that voluntarily moved on or passed on, including the key person behind the traditionals. In some ways they also drove themself out of the traditional business with uncompetitive prices AND their life time warranty they let every Tom, Dick or Harry that wanted to take advantage of do so.

The up side is there is enough of them out there in some models it will be a long time before it is used up even with new shooters coming along who want traditional instead of in-lines... the down side for them the prices will be going up eventually - same as has all the dropped models eagerly sought for years have. Lots of options now days that didn't exist when TC got in the traditional game that will also remain viable, maybe more so with TC out of it.

The G2 is next to go.

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2013, 01:38:22 PM »

I think what hurt them the most is that the current traditional muzzleloader fan wants something that at least looks like the real deal. T/C just didn't keep up with the times.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2013, 04:02:45 AM »

I believe that the lifetime warrenty is honored if the warrenty submission is made by the original purchaser of the firearm.

Serial numbers typically are not tracked with BP firearms, so how does one prove that they were the original purchaser of the firearm??

Where did I put those reciepts from.....oh....30+ years ago??

Ladobe · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2013, 09:47:17 AM »

RHI -

TC's lifetime warranty historically did not pertain only to the original buyer, was good for anyone who owned them any time. They had no idea who they were first sold to if not direct, did not require proof. Just how many folks who bought TC's up to 45 years ago still have an original receipt? No idea if S&W has changed the warranty.

Traditional muzzy serial numbers were tracked by TC too, but all those records from prior to the plant fire were lost in it. That didn't change their warranty on them.

L

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2013, 09:52:27 AM »

Their warranty (now) states lifetime for the original owner. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/warranty_details.php

Quote

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DETAILS

This warranty is granted by Thompson/Center Arms Company,Inc. This warranty, which shall last for the Lifetime of the original owner of any factory finished firearm, is established by the return of the Thompson/Center Arms authorized warranty card or registering online at http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/warranty.php within thirty (30) days of purchase of such firearm. With respect to such firearm, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties.

Thompson/Center Arms firearms are warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Any such defects of which Thompson/Center Arms receives written notice by the original owner will be remedied by Thompson/Center Arms without charge within a reasonable time after such notification and delivery of the firearm as provided below.

Warranty claims (in writing) and the firearm or part thereof concerned should be delivered, postage prepaid, to the factory at Smith & Wesson, 2100 Roosevelt Ave., Springfield, MA 01104 Attn: Service Department. In addition, a copy of the bill of sale in the owner’s name, or, where applicable, a copy of ATF Form 4473 indicating date of purchase must be included. Please include your physical address and phone number. It is important that the owner comply with all applicable federal, state and local laws and regulations in the shipment of firearms to Thompson/Center Arms.

Warranty claims should state the model and, where applicable, the serial number of the firearm concerned and the description of the difficulty experienced. It is recommended that shipments be insured by the owner, since Thompson/Center Arms will accept no responsibility for loss or damage in transit. Transportation and insurance charges for return to the owner will be paid by Thompson/Center Arms if the claim is covered by this warranty.

If the work required is not covered by our “Lifetime Warranty” you will receive a quotation which must be authorized by you. No actual work will be done without your approval. Return Shipments can be shipped via UPS, FedEx or mail at your cost. Repaired product will be shipped back to you via FedEx requiring an adult signature upon receipt.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL THOMPSON/CENTER ARMS BE RESPONSIBLE FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WITH RESPECT TO ECONOMIC LOSS, INJURY, DEATH OR PROPERTY DAMAGE, WHETHER AS A RESULT OF BREACH OF THIS WARRANTY, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE.

Some States do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.

Thompson/Center Arms will not be responsible for:

Defects or malfunctions resulting from careless handling, unauthorized adjustments or modifications made or attempted by anyone other than a qualified gunsmith following Thompson/Center Arms authorized procedures, or failure to follow the instructions in the Thompson/Center Arms Safety & Instruction manual.

Use of defective or improper ammunition and/or propellant, corrosion, neglect, abuse, ordinary wear and tear, or unreasonable use.

Use of replacement parts, including but not limited to barrels and springs, other than Thompson/Center Arms factory or authorized parts.

Criminal misuse, negligence, or use under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Services performed by the Thompson/Center Arms Custom Shop and/or Repair Department do not void this warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from State to State.

Note: All liability is excluded in the event that the instructions provided in the Thompson/Center Arms Safety and Instruction manual are not observed.

Ladobe · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2013, 10:54:00 AM »

Thanks Tim... in effect it negates the warranty entirely for the lions share of the TC's out there. Some of us users sent in cards and/or maintained hard copy receipts from day one up to 45 years ago that may prove being the original buyer, may not with it S&W's call. Unfortunately most may not have even that "proof" they were original buyers if other than in recent years/decades. With so many NOT still owned by the original buyer their warranty is null and void. It's now becoming a new purchase from them warranty mostly AND will not be received well by long time users of TC products.

While far from the only writting on the wall, S&W was part of the reason I've sold all but one of my TC's after being a serious user of them almost from day one, and it'll be for sale too when I get around to it. While also a serious users of S&W revolvers going back even further than TC, there are none here anymore. Hmmmm?

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2013, 02:18:44 PM »

They recently replaced my Encore buttstock for free. I was not the original owner. I understand the Icon is gone this year.

Victor3 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2013, 01:13:34 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 01, 2013, 09:52:27 AM

Their warranty (now) states lifetime for the original owner. $:-\$

Tim

http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/warranty_details.php

Quote
LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DETAILS

This warranty is granted by Thompson/Center Arms Company,Inc. This warranty, which shall last for the Lifetime of the original owner of any factory finished firearm, is established by the return of the Thompson/Center Arms authorized warranty card or registering online at http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/warranty.php within thirty (30) days of purchase of such firearm. With respect to such firearm, this warranty supersedes any and all other warranties.

I don't believe they can legally require registration retroactively (prior to their new declaration).

That's not to say that they won't try to stonewall those who purchased previously and didn't register their guns, but I bet they'd honor their previous lifetime warranty if push came to shove. Unfortunately, that may require a class-action lawsuit. I assume that T/C is gambling that it won't happen, and that they can buffalo most folks who read the new warranty declaration.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title16/16-1.0.1.7.71.0.45.7.html

pastorp · « **Reply #20 on:** February 03, 2013, 01:42:06 AM »

So what's the opinion on what all this will do to the prices of TC side locks ? If the prices that these are actually selling for here on the classifieds is any gague it's not looking like a sellers market anytime soon.

Regards,

bubba.50 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:10:04 AM »

probably take a while for all the good to reasonably priced ones to wind up in the hands of the evil-bay mentality types. then you'll likely see prices go up. maybe even to the stupid-high level that some barrels such as the shotgun or 58cal barrels are gettin' now. my opinion & yer welcome to it, bubba.

Ladobe · « **Reply #22 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:22:20 AM »

Prices going up works for me. Why I have not tried to sell the TC Hawken switch lock/switch barrel yet, folks wouldn't pay anywhere near what it's real value is as a one of a kind custom build, and it would be a shame to part it out.

pastorp · « **Reply #23 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:27:07 AM »

I don't know if I got enough time left before my expiration date for all that.

Regards,

bubba.50 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 04, 2013, 05:50:34 AM »

my thought s exactly Byron.

theratdog · « **Reply #25 on:** March 25, 2013, 09:53:49 PM »

you might keep looking on ebay for parts that's were i got mine to build several guns 54 and 50 cal.also you might get lucky at a pawn shop.

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** March 26, 2013, 12:00:32 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on February 03, 2013, 01:42:06 AM

So what's the opinion on what all this will do to the prices of TC side locks ? If the prices that these are actually selling for here on the classifieds is any gague it's not looking like a sellers market anytime soon.

Regards,

Parted out many TCs on ebay for 2 to 3 times what I paid.

Ladobe · « **Reply #27 on:** March 26, 2013, 05:25:17 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on February 03, 2013, 01:42:06 AM

So what's the opinion on what all this will do to the prices of TC side locks ? If the prices that these are actually selling for here on the classifieds is any gague it's not looking like a sellers market anytime soon.

Regards,

Like anything discontinued that has a following it will take time, supply and demand applies. IE, when TC first dropped the Cherokee line almost 25 years ago how many folks knew they would sell for today? How about a Seneca 36 dropped before the Cherokee first came out? Will just take longer for models they made far higher numbers of. I sold the last of my TC Contender EO frames at higher prices than what they had traditional brought for years, the demand is slowly getting higher than the supply. In time they will eventually be just like the Cherokee/Seneca 36. Sure they will take longer because of the numbers made, and the fact a so called replacement followed them where one did not follow the Cherokee/Seneca. But the time will come when a Contender EO frame will fetch a higher price same as the other two now does.

Quote from: Swampman on March 26, 2013, 12:00:32 AM

Parted out many TCs on ebay for 2 to 3 times what I paid.

Nothing new, it has always been possible to get far more parting out some firearms on FleaBay since they banned selling them complete.

For some folks it's not all about the money only though. I could easily get way more parting out my Hawken switch barrel/switch lock than selling it as a complete package, and would sell it much sooner. It's value as a complete package is also way higher than what I'd sell it for as such. IOW, keeping it together as the custom smith who built it intended it to be is far more import to me than the almighty buck. The time may well come where I will part it out just to be done with it, but that would be a next to last resort.