Author Topic: Carry Question (Read 1637 times)

Spirithawk · « **on:** January 26, 2013, 10:01:50 AM »

I prefer to carry with a round in the chamber so does anyone carry their 1911 with the hammer on half cock? Seems it would be safer than all the way down or on full cock.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2013, 10:09:07 AM »

I carry mine one way , cocked & locked , the hammer all the way back and the thumb safety on , the way they were designed to be carried .

stimpy

spruce · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2013, 10:13:07 AM »

Would you carry a Colt SAA or one of it's clones with the hammer at half-cock with a live round under it?
Mechanically it's the same difference.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2013, 10:31:49 AM »

The safeties would still be engaged which is not something a single action has. I simply wondered that should the thumb safety accidently get disengaged if it wouldn't be safer on half than full cock say as if there was a struggle with an attacker who grabbed the grip while it was still holstered. If nothing else I intend to carry on full cock but with a holster that has a keeper strap that can ride between the hammer and firing pin. As I said, I was just curious as I've never heard anyone mention the half cock posistion. Ya don't learn if ya don't ask.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2013, 10:40:03 AM »

A lot of things have had to go worng for a hammer to drop on a 1911 without it being planned , the thumb safety as well as the grip safety both would have to be moved as well as the trigger pulled , just about any good holster will keep atleast the trigger safe even in a struggle .

stimpy

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2013, 11:31:51 AM »

Never heard of a 1911 being discharged inadvertenly because it was carried cocked and locked. But it does look scary. I've have on occassion found my safety off at the end of the day, but still it would have had to be gripped and the trigger pulled before it could discharge. Having a round in the chamber and the gun on half cock would mandate the hammer would have to be cocked, like a Browning Hi Power. Not such a bad thing. I think I'd rather have a 1911 with the chamber empty than have any other pistol as a carry gun. I don't mean that's a good way to carry, but to me, the pistol itself is enough reason to have one, regardless of how you carry it.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2013, 12:02:48 PM »

JM intended the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked. The half cock notch is part of the safety system. The firearm must be held properly to deactivate the grip safety. The thumb safety must be pressed down. If for whatever reason the hammer comes off cock it will be caught by the 'half cock notch' as long as the trigger is not pulled. Carry it on half cock and you negate this safety device.

spruce · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2013, 12:06:47 PM »

Ol' John M. was a pretty clever fellow when it came to designing guns!

The only reason he put the half-cock notch on the hammer was to catch the hammer from falling all the way down and striking the firing pin, if for some reason the full-cock notch should ever fail.

If you put it in the half-cock position to start with you've already by-passed the first safety feature of the gun.
BTW, he designed the gun with no grip safety - that was added later to satisfy the military requirement. He felt the gun was plenty safe without it - a view apparently shared by Jeff Cooper, as he was known to have the grip safety pinned to make it inoperable on his carry guns.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2013, 12:17:48 PM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on January 26, 2013, 12:02:48 PM

JM intended the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked. The half cock notch is part of the safety system. The firearm must be held properly to deactivate the grip safety. The thumb safety must be pressed down. If for whatever reason the hammer comes off cock it will be caught by the 'half cock notch' as long as the trigger is not pulled. Carry it on half cock and you negate this safety device.

Cool, now see I didn't know that. Why I asked.

That makes perfect sense and since I believe in carrying with a round in the chamber, cocked, locked and read to rock it is. I'm admittedly new to a 1911 and wanting to learn folks. Who better to learn from than folks such as Y'all that have 1911s yourselve's.

Thanks I apreciate your explaining it to me and I'll rest easier carrying it that way.

New question....Anyone know anything about Tagua brand holsters? I'm looking at buying one off Ebay for my 1911. Price isn't bad and from the description they seem well made.

Mikey · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2013, 01:32:59 PM »

Not to mention that it takes another 1.5 seconds to get the hammer back and then properly position your hand to fire the 1911 with the grip safety depressed. The dang thing was designed to be carried cocked and locked. SharonAnne is right.

mechanic · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2013, 01:37:42 PM »

I always carried with the holster strap across between the hammer and frame....another added safety.

Ben

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2013, 01:40:47 PM »

Regardless of what Browning intended, the military bought it and took it to war with the chamber empty. Soldiers did not carry it cocked and locked.
That said, the pistol was a not often used weapon compared to their main weapon, the M1. They were used more in close combat in World War I, but even then, they were not cocked and locked.
However, soldiers are not street people. We carry with instant access as a priority.
Before the old girl chimes asking about my research on combat carry by soldiers, I say it's common knowledge. I served when the .45 was still in use, years before the Beretta was adopted. I carried with an empty chamber, as per military rules.
You know what else? Most combatants didn't even have a sidearm.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2013, 02:22:18 PM »

SpiritHawk, sorry, I have no experience with the Taqua brand holster.

I have been carrying and shooting the 1911 and wide body 1911 variants for so long that I forget there are people new to the 1911. If I get snippy at someone for not knowing about the 1911 PLEASE, slap me back and remind me there will always be people new to the 1911. Not everyone is as old as I am, Thank God.

reliquary · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2013, 02:25:35 PM »

MIV is correct: Army rules stated that the 1911A1 was to be carried hammer down on an empty chamber.

Even though I'm not "the old girl", I have to chime in with some opposite "common knowledge":

Anyone who did so in combat was an idiot. Everyone I know who carried one in the field in RVN carried it cocked and locked over a chambered round, as I did. Every GI in RVN who could get his hands on an "off-the-books" pistol had one and no one cared...IN THE FIELD. Base camp...different story...they were officially forbidden but most commanders let their guys store them in the arms room until needed.

Some of my former students are in uniform and they say they carried/carry the Beretta with one in the chamber when on patrol.

Lots of difference between what's "sposetabe" and what really happens in a combat zone.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2013, 03:16:30 PM »

I've always carried my PF-9 with one in ther chamber. Only real differance I guess is that the 1911's hammer is exposed.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2013, 03:53:37 PM »

I carry one of 2 guns , either my new 1911 or my Taurus tracker in 45 colt , and of the two I feel that the 1911 in C&L is safer than most wheelguns without a t-bar and the hammer down on a loaded chamber . Guess its just what I'm used to .

stimpy

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2013, 05:06:52 PM »

reliquary, thanks for that truth. I'm aware that men going into battle had one in the chamber. I only meant that it was not "legal" under military regs. Personally, I was never close to combat zones. I carried the .45 only as defense against persons who might try to board the cutter I was assigned to guard. I never violated the rule of one in the chamber, but then I never was in real danger. If I had been in actual danger, I'd would have put one in the pipe. It just makes sense.

FPH · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2013, 05:16:46 PM »

How the 1911 was designed to be carried and how the Military required it to be carried may be two different methods.......I don't know......just saying.

spruce · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2013, 03:01:57 AM »

You're exactly right FPH - as the old saying goes "there's the right way, the wrong way, and the military way".

Every month when I reported for pay to some "shavetail" LT I was always glad the 1911 laying on the table and pointed in my direction had no round in the chamber!

Savage · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2013, 04:07:47 AM »

Had a Gould and Goodrich duty holster that wiped the safety on my carry Kimber. Didn't overly concern me, due to the redundancy of the safety features of the platform. l had a few well intentioned citizens warn me that my pistol was cocked.

The 1911 is actually safer carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber than on half cock. The inertial firing pin will not allow the pistol to fire from a blow to the hammer in the rest position. Of course it's also questionable if it would fire if a blow to the hammer broke the half cock notch. Bottom line: IMO the 1911 platform carried "Cocked & Locked" is one of the safest platforms out there for carry, assuming familiarity with the manual of arms and proper trigger discipline.
Savage

SharonAnne · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2013, 04:50:11 AM »

reliQ you referred to "common knowledge". That is another way of saying "gossip".

btw, cocked and locked is how every hunter carries their rifle while hunting.

FPH · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2013, 04:58:09 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on January 27, 2013, 04:50:11 AM

reliQ you referred to "common knowledge". That is another way of saying "gossip".

btw, cocked and locked is how every hunter carries their rifle while hunting.

I never carry a round in the chamber while hunting. I know a man with a "now" fused wrist due accidental to shooting himself using that method.

Savage · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2013, 05:33:13 AM »

If the four basic rules of firearms safety are employed, any firearm is as safe as the operator.
Savage

FPH · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2013, 06:13:12 AM »

Quote from: Savage on January 27, 2013, 05:33:13 AM

If the four basic rules of firearms safety are employed, any firearm is as safe as the operator.
Savage

I would agree. However, I know of 5 hunting accidents (one resulting in a death) of which I have been around. Common since seems to be abandoned in a hunting environment I will err oh the side of caution. Getting out in the outdoors gives me more pleasure than taking an animal anyway.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2013, 08:22:22 AM »

FPH how did this 'hunter' shoot himself in the wrist with a rifle? I am baffled?

"common sense" is an oxymoron

FPH · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2013, 08:50:22 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on January 27, 2013, 08:22:22 AM

FPH how did this 'hunter' shoot himself in the wrist with a rifle? I am baffled?

"common sense" is an oxymoron

He was putting the rifle down (in the field) during a lunch break. The rifle was loaded and according to him when he setting it against a tree, a branch (brush) hit the trigger and the rifle fired, ( the safety must have been off). His hand was covering the muzzle.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2013, 02:56:50 PM »

major frackin ouch.

FPH · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2013, 03:40:15 PM »

Yes, he shot himself in the wrist. 30-06. He bought this rifle used and already scoped. He probably didn't even site the rifle in. Was only the second time he had been hunting. (first for deer) Most likely only the second time handling a weapon. I only met him at the ranch.......he was a guest of the owner. Nice guy, but ignorant.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #28 on:** January 28, 2013, 10:09:11 AM »

He may not have known the rifle had a safety. Newbies with guns scare me. I am a firm believer in TRAINING. I have been doing this so long that sometimes I forget that I went through some very good training.

FPH · « **Reply #29 on:** January 28, 2013, 11:03:36 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on January 28, 2013, 10:09:11 AM

He may not have known the rifle had a safety. Newbies with guns scare me. I am a firm believer in TRAINING. I have been doing this so long that sometimes I forget that I went through some very good training.

Just happy there were a few ridges between us.