Bad powder, bad brass?

[Ranger413]

A friend at work has asked me to work on some reloads for his 45/70.  I've never reloaded the cartridge but feel fully capable. 
He told me that he had his rifle out and got a squib load.  Seems as though the primer ignited but the powder failed to burn.  The bullet was lodged in the barrel and a cleaning rod was used to remove it later on.  When he asked me if I could help, I told him I'd work on pulling the bullets and reloading the rounds with fresh primers and powder. 

A couple of nights ago I began pulling bullets using my kinetic bullet puller.  The bullets came out fine with very little damage (they're cast bullets).  About 50% are gas checked.  Pretty much every round that had a gas checked bullet was compromised.  It appeared as though the powder got wet or somehow went bad.  Right now I'm speculating that the gas check reacted with the nickel plated case and corroded.  That corrosion then affected the powder, causing it to clump or cake up.  Rounds that didn't have the gas checked bullet were generally fine.  I did find one or two others that had clumped powder.
 
I think the decision to load them from scratch again is the right decision.  Several different poweders were used and I have no idea how light or hot the loads were.  I have some H322 and Varget on hand so I'll likely do some up at the starting load using one of those flavors.  My friend ins't looking to kill anything with the ammo, just plink. 
Any thoughts on what would have caused the clumping/caking of the ammo?  Some of it was as hard as a rock.  Oh yeah, after tumbing the cases for over 12 hours, I still can't get the corrosion out of the inside of the cases.  I'm thinking that it'd be better to scrap 'em.  I haven't pulled any bullets out of the brass (non-nickel plated) cases yet to see if they have similar issues.
Again, any thoughts?

[cudatruck]

same problem with several different powders? that would indicate its not the powder. chemical problem with gas check and nickle, bullet lube, lead, also what lube did you use when sizing cases and was any left in the case before charging with powder? Pull some of the brass ones with gas checks and see if you find more, that would eliminate the nickle as a culprit. what about how he stored the ammo? did it get wet?

[YRUpunting?]

How does the powder smell in the can?

As for the brass, before I pitched them I would give them a good low boil.  You need a pot that will never be used for anything other than boiling brass, and do this outside on a camp stove or grill.  Fill the pot with a couple inches of water above the brass, add a cup or two of white vinegar and a good squirt of Dawn and boil for a half hour.  Give them a stir every once and a while.  I carry the pot out in the yard when done and run the hose in them until they are cool enough to touch then rinse them several times.  Let air dry, place in sun, or put them in a disposable pie tin and bake at 175 for about 30 minutes or till dry.  Give a tumble for a few hours and you should be able to use them.

If you just have a small number of them, you could do about the same as above but with a disposable container like a mayo jar and gently shake them after they sat for a while and change the solution a couple of times.

[parisite]

Pull one or two of the brass case ones with gas checks and see if corrosion is there too. If not, shoot the rest of them. Something is reacting with the copper gas checks. Maybe just the nickel in the brass?
Squirt some WD-40 in the corroded brass and try and break up the corrosion with a small round brush. Wash them in soapy water, rinse then let dry outside.  If they are pitted scrap them.

[revbc]

I have used a lot of nickel 45/70's with copper gas checks, not a problem.  Did they load it with some blackpowder substitute maybe?

[tobster]

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine. I'll help someone learn to reload, but I don't think it's wise to load for someone else or shoot ammunition someone else loaded. I wouldn't waste the time or risk an injury trying to salvage the junk he gave you.

[Larry L]

Here's my opinion, yer friend had some of the ammo in his pocket and it got wet. Now the powder is clumped together and won't light. I'd pull the bullets and punch the primers on all of it. Then start over with the correct load data for his particular 45-70. I certainly wouldn't load max even for the trapdoor data. Assuming that yer friend loaded this himself, I'd suggest assisting him with his loading but not do it for him.

[bilmac]

I  have had trouble with pistol rounds with lead bullets. I attribute it to them getting hot enough that part of the bullet lube melted and contaminated the powder. I always try to store lead bulleted rounds point down now.

[Ranger413]

Thanks for all of the replies. 

First, this particular friend got out of reloading so he doesn't have the equipment or desire to do it.  I normally don't reload for others but thought I'd help this guy out.

Second, I don't think I'm going to bother with the nickel cases.  They look beyond repair.

My son and I have started pulling bullets out of the brass cases.  So far we're not seeing the same level of corrosion.  There are a number of rounds without lube on the bullets and these same rounds have caked up powder.  Starting to think that the rounds got warm and the lube migrated into the powder.

[Mikey]

Ranger:  Toss the brass and start new.  Whether chemical interaction or plain powde corrosion, the cases have been compromised internally and could easily blow out. 
 
Or, rather than to go to all the expense, time, effort and liability, you could spend that $ wisely and purchase some bulk 45-70 ammo.  I see it advertized in the Shotgun News or in the Sportsmans Guide, possibly even Natchez.  But also check with MidSouth and see if they have nay bulk deals.  Might make everybody feel a bit better.........

[lrrice]

I have had some homemade lube get into the cases on a 45 LC.  It was long long ago when I was younger and dumber.  It will definitely cause squibs.  There is no telling what was in the lube if you didn't cast and lube them yourself.  Just search homemade bullet lube and you will find a dizzying array of the latest Jr. mad scientist concoctions you ever saw.  My problem was that I pan lubed and didn't use the sized proper cutter or clean the bases good before I reloaded.  The shot before the squib, I actually watched the bullet fly through the air.  I think I could have thrown it farther than it flew.  Pretty sure it's not a reaction between the nickle and the copper because the brass that the nickle is stuck to is 70% copper to start out with.

[Lloyd Smale]

probably the right answer. If a soft lube was used and they got hot or the guy didnt wipe the bases of the bullets off and they had a bit of lube on them it will contaminate powder. Ive had the same thing happen with bullets that are tumble lubed too.

I  have had trouble with pistol rounds with lead bullets. I attribute it to them getting hot enough that part of the bullet lube melted and contaminated the powder. I always try to store lead bulleted rounds point down now.

[bikerbeans]

Lloyd,
 
did you have the problem with Lee Alox?
 
thanks
 
BB
 

probably the right answer. If a soft lube was used and they got hot or the guy didnt wipe the bases of the bullets off and they had a bit of lube on them it will contaminate powder. Ive had the same thing happen with bullets that are tumble lubed too.

I  have had trouble with pistol rounds with lead bullets. I attribute it to them getting hot enough that part of the bullet lube melted and contaminated the powder. I always try to store lead bulleted rounds point down now.

[BUGEYE]

A quarter is 75% copper and 25% nickle, so the metal types can probably be ruled out.

[Lloyd Smale]

sure have. I had 38s loaded and stored in coffee cans in my barn. After sitting all summer in the heat about a 1/4 of them would misfire or were squibs.

Lloyd,
 
did you have the problem with Lee Alox?
 
thanks
 
BB
 

probably the right answer. If a soft lube was used and they got hot or the guy didnt wipe the bases of the bullets off and they had a bit of lube on them it will contaminate powder. Ive had the same thing happen with bullets that are tumble lubed too.

I  have had trouble with pistol rounds with lead bullets. I attribute it to them getting hot enough that part of the bullet lube melted and contaminated the powder. I always try to store lead bulleted rounds point down now.

[bikerbeans]

Thanks for the information.  Just now getting set up to cast my own boolits, guess I need to find a Lube Sizer & dies.   
 
BB
 
 

sure have. I had 38s loaded and stored in coffee cans in my barn. After sitting all summer in the heat about a 1/4 of them would misfire or were squibs.

Lloyd,
 
did you have the problem with Lee Alox?
 
thanks
 
BB
 

probably the right answer. If a soft lube was used and they got hot or the guy didnt wipe the bases of the bullets off and they had a bit of lube on them it will contaminate powder. Ive had the same thing happen with bullets that are tumble lubed too.

I  have had trouble with pistol rounds with lead bullets. I attribute it to them getting hot enough that part of the bullet lube melted and contaminated the powder. I always try to store lead bulleted rounds point down now.