Looks bad for smokers and us old fat men

[Sourdough]

Looks like thay want to punish us for being fat or smoking.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/01/28/do-penalties-for-smokers-and-obese-make-sense/?test=latestnews

[Conan The Librarian]

That's just a foot in the door tactic. They really just want all the money and not pay any claims. Obamacare is just a source of revenue for pork projects, and has nothing to do with any health care.
 
Notice how the whole rhetoric has changed where denying care is the new model. Any excuse to deny care.
 
And it is all about killing off old people. That is the bottom line fact. Anybody with gray hair that things this is a good idea has not studied it enough. (Definition of old people here is "the suckers who have been payin and payin and payin into a system for 30, 40, or 50 years expecting to get something in return, but now can't get it because they don't matter anymore.")
 

[Old Fart]

Because I partake in a good chew once or twice a month my insurance rate went up and coverage went way down,
I think next year when they ask I'm gonna be free from that evil habit. 

[JonnyReb]

From a recent news flash I heard, smokers who are 60 years old will be billed 5100.00 bucks a year in additional fees under obama care. 55 year old pay 4800.00 more. Hope allot of democrat voters are old smokers. I feel sorrier for the fat folks who are going to come under fire, some of them truly have a hard time losing weight I'm sure...chris cristy comes to mind..you wouldn't carry an extra man around with you if you could help it would you? Gotta be a medical condition in lots of cases and there's no way those folks should have to pay more. On the other hand, the seriously overweight may be more prone to gubment assistance perhaps..and not pay anything anyways. Like chris cristy.

  Sounds more and more like opting out of bamacare and paying the fine may be the best way for many people to go.

[Conan The Librarian]

Here's how it works:
 
Federal government heavily subsidizes corn, soybean, and wheat farming. Arguably the top contributors to obesity in America, producing crap like high fructose corn syrup, estrogen-like soy products, and factory breads made of highly refined fiberless flour. And all of which are top contributors to diabetes in America. Overall, diabetes treatment is one of the highest costs overall in the nation's health care expenses.
 
Federal government subsidizes tobacco growers (about $700 million in the past 10 years)
 
Federal government punishes people because they suffer the adverse effects of what federal government has encouraged them to consume.

[KIMBER45]

The attitude of alot of people is - Why should I pay for your health problems ? So the question is - why should my insurance costs go up because you are stupid enough to smoke or do anything else that caused you to have health problems? I'm not talking about unavoidable health issues. I'm talking about behaviours that cause health issues such as smoking, drinking too much alcohol, not watching your diet if diabetic, etc.

[Anna]

You can not force this on smokers or overweight people . There is a psychological element working
here on both of them that has got to be addressed first .

[JonnyReb]

You can not force this on smokers or overweight people . There is a psychological element working
here on both of them that has got to be addressed first .

  That's a fantastic point Anna. Bet they didn't slip any acknowledgement of that fact into obamacare legislation.

 Kimber45, Why indeed should your insurance go up to pay a smokers habits, or some fat guy with lots of health issues.? This is exactly how I felt when I realized that obamacare was gonna make me, a job creator, pay for a bunch of people without the initiative to produce, or work. Now you, if you work, will also pay for people who don't or won't. Why does it not bother you to pay for those who won't pay for themselves, (assuming you advocated obamacare)but it does bother you if you foot the bill for a chunky smoking diabetic?

 

[LONGTOM]

Let's just make the whole populace of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA a safer, healthier place.
They want to ban guns, then ban tobacco, ban alcohol, ban cars.
After all, those last three kill more people per year each, then all the guns in the country.
You can't force a person to eat correctly but you could stop them smoking and drinking to the extent as humanly possible.
They could never stop all of it just like back in prohibition days.
If you wanted it and was willing to pay for it, it was there.
The same goes for tobacco and guns.
Take it all away and it will still be there.
Why can't the gov see that!
I have smoked since I was 14 which makes it 41 years now.
For the past 6 months I have been using one of those electric cigarettes with 0 additives and I can tell you that for me it isn't the nicotine I am addicted to because I am just as satisfied using the fake as smoking a real cigarette.
It's that arm motion, hand to mouth I can't get over.
For me, it's a habit, not an addiction.
They can pass all the laws they want but the truth is the gov can't force you to do a dang thing you don't want to except die!
 
 
LONGTOM

[JonnyReb]

 I put out about 40-50 virginia gold and burley plants every year. I'll keep growing and rolling my own.

   Sure do bloom pretty..


5.photobucket.com/albums/z252/xxjonnyrebxx/002-28.jpg[/IMG]

[KIMBER45]

I put out about 40-50 virginia gold and burley plants every year. I'll keep growing and rolling my own.

   Sure do bloom pretty..

How do you use the tobacco you grow? Do you shread it and smoke it or do you use it for wrapping , like they do with some cigar tobacco?

[Old Fart]

I've got a few friends that grow thier own. They seem to enjoy the whole process.

[JonnyReb]

  Hey kimber, sure hope you attempt to answer my question 3 posts up 

  The tobacco I flue cure, sun cure or hang to dry. Flue curing seems to work best and I typically shred and roll this tobacco for rolling into cigerettes. Homegrown tobacco doesn't have all the addictive stuff in it that factory smokes do, the nicotene is actually stronger but there's other addictive chemicals missing. I went through withdrawels switching away from factory smokes, not sure what's in them but its strong stuff.  My tobacco is 100% organic, all fertilizers come from my chickens, woodstove(ash) or coffee grounds,, composted into leaves. I've cut my consumption WAY down from when I smoked the factory stuff.. mine is smoother and. I'm sure somewhat safer. More than anything I just like growing it.  J

[williamlayton]

Kimber
Why do you even inquire since you are against it----or are you trolling again?
Blessings

[JonnyReb]

I've got a few friends that grow thier own. They seem to enjoy the whole process.

  I think I far more enjoy the process myself, than actually the smoke made. Actually it was tobacco that got me started "farmin", just trying to save money. Now I have a huge garden full of about everything and added chickens to my endeavor. More and more I want to cut off the grid completely, next project is getting the power company out of my life, gonna do solar 110 conversion this spring\ summer,and hopefully figure out 220 alternatives soon after. All that self sufficiency stuff started with my baccy.  J

[Sourdough]

Seeing that flower brought back memories.
 
I was 14 years old when I raised my first and last crop of tobacco.  I broke the ground, prepared it for setting, and did all the plowing with a mule.  Set the patch by hand.  It was either July or August, temp was in the 100s, humidity was high.  I moved through those plants breaking the flower out of those plants so they would fill out.  I got covered with gum from the leaves.  By the time I finished topping that little patch I swore, 1. I would never be a farmer.  2. I was going to leave Tennessee, never to return to live there.  I have lived up to the promise I made myself.
 
As I think back on it, all those farmers smoked.  Yet they never smoked their own tobacco.  They all smoked Bull Durham, or Prince Albert.  I was taught to roll a cigarette at the age of 6.  Luckily, I never picked up the habit as a child.

[RevJim]

 As a Believer in Free Will, it's pretty easy for me to lean hard to the Libertarian side of Conservatism; I believe people are responsible for their own actions and should be left alone, especially by the Govt. Yes, sin has consequence, but so does bad choices. If they can't/won't/don't know or do what God's best is for them, no one else can make them do it, they will have to live/die by their choices. Example, its not "really" against the law to commit suicide, but only 'attempted" suicide...you can't lock up a dead person! We only try to help those who are mentally distressed until they can make a so-called sane decision/decisions, and yes, some carry it out afterward anyhow. Even a sane person can/does often make "insane" choices, and no law (or high fees) will stop that. But the catch 22 is the Govt. is setting themselves up to decide what is an "insane choice" and who is making it!  This is hilariously "insane" when you look at how obese  and the behaviors(smokers/drug use/living on junk food, what "they" want to do with their own lives) of most of those "on the Dole" are. Obama is creating a Frankenstein...they were pieced together to help him get the vote, but take away their goodies, allow them to die or deny them proper care and they will turn on him....

[RevJim]

 I read once that today's cigarettes only have about 4% tobacco, the rest is just fillers. I quit cigarettes when I got out of the Army, but dipped Skoal for years, finally quit that around 25 when I started taking better care of myself...had a good friend die of throat/mouth cancer at age 34. He had been chewing Red Man since he was five! I suppose that if one wants to use tobacco on a regular basis, the safest way would be to actually grow your own, looks like a lot of hassle to me, but I'm not a smoker, ha. If this economy keeps going as it is, losing weight might be easier than they thought...food costs sky high, etc. less money to buy junk with. IMO, which no one else is expected or required to have, ha.

[Guy Pike]

Of course the President, who smokes, and all  the fat Congressmen and Senators, some of whom are smokers are exempt from any such regulations.

[SHOOTALL]

Want to make an impression ? lets all smokers not smoke for a couple week or a mo. and all over eaters reduce the food intake. THE MONEY LOST IN TAXES MIGHT GET THEIR ATTENTION> 

[Casull]

So the question is - why should my insurance costs go up because you are stupid enough to smoke or do anything else that caused you to have health problems?

 
 
Kimber, would that include those who engage in homosexual sex?  Obviously, that "activity" carries great health costs/dangers.

[KIMBER45]

Kimber
Why do you even inquire since you are against it----or are you trolling again?
Blessings

Ask a question and get accused ot trolling. If I troll, I don't mean to. I just ask questions and see what people are thinking. Too bad that is taken as trolling. Now to answer ur question - I live in an area where alot of tobacco is grown. The tobacco around here is used for the wrappers on cigars. That's why I asked.Hope that answer doesn't get me accused of trolling. Blessings

[KIMBER45]

So the question is - why should my insurance costs go up because you are stupid enough to smoke or do anything else that caused you to have health problems?

 
 
Kimber, would that include those who engage in homosexual sex?  Obviously, that "activity" carries great health costs/dangers.

Good question - Cost wise I would like to see if the cost of homosexual sex is any more costly than heterosexual sex . I guess it all comes under unprotected sex. As far as my original statement - it was supposed to be a food for thought question. I never said I was in favor of it. I guess it really riled up the smokers.

[JonnyReb]

 Kimber45, Why indeed should your insurance go up to pay a smokers habits, or some fat guy with lots of health issues.? This is exactly how I felt when I realized that obamacare was gonna make me, a job creator, pay for a bunch of people without the initiative to produce, or work. Now you, if you work, will also pay for people who don't or won't. Why does it not bother you to pay for those who won't pay for themselves, (assuming you advocated obamacare)but it does bother you if you foot the bill for a chunky smoking diabetic?

  Stil waitin

[JonnyReb]

Seeing that flower brought back memories.
 
I was 14 years old when I raised my first and last crop of tobacco.  I broke the ground, prepared it for setting, and did all the plowing with a mule.  Set the patch by hand.  It was either July or August, temp was in the 100s, humidity was high.  I moved through those plants breaking the flower out of those plants so they would fill out.  I got covered with gum from the leaves.  By the time I finished topping that little patch I swore, 1. I would never be a farmer.  2. I was going to leave Tennessee, never to return to live there.  I have lived up to the promise I made myself.

  SD,  funny how one mans labor is anothers therapy. I totally get what your sayin and enjoyed the story. As a kid, that work might have been torture, now it gives me a nice place to be at 7am, let's me see progress and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Gives me photobucket pics and a reason to buy nice airguns for pesting too. A win win.  I will agree though, that picking those flowers seems neverending when their in bloom. Every morning you just find more for weeks on end. That and tobaccoworms. Those flowers in the pic was my mama plant for the next years seeds. It was about 10 feet tall in that pic.      Sorry for all the offtopic.   J

[KIMBER45]

 Kimber45, Why indeed should your insurance go up to pay a smokers habits, or some fat guy with lots of health issues.? This is exactly how I felt when I realized that obamacare was gonna make me, a job creator, pay for a bunch of people without the initiative to produce, or work. Now you, if you work, will also pay for people who don't or won't. Why does it not bother you to pay for those who won't pay for themselves, (assuming you advocated obamacare)but it does bother you if you foot the bill for a chunky smoking diabetic?

  Stil waitin

Where did I say it doesn't bother me ?

[JonnyReb]

   So you are opposed to obamacare?

[KIMBER45]

   So you are opposed to obamacare?
[/quot
some parts I like, some parts I don't like. How about you- ?

[JonnyReb]

   Of course, as a freedom loving American, I abhor obamacare and its intrusion on my private life and bank account. To be forced to go on a system monopolized by the federal government and to have the freedom of choice stripped from the country is a huge step away from what made this country the absolute best and most advanced on earth. This step backward makes you and I evermore a number in a system that see's us as just that. The hospitals and doctors will be forced to adapt to gov funding, regular people like you and I will be caught in at best a mediocre system, while the truly rich will have access to the finest, they can pay for obamacare and still afford additional insurance for enhanced healthcare. Obamacare further divides us, removes the middle class and makes us all serfs in a world where free choice and personal responsibility is but a memory.

  The purpose of my goading(sorry) you into a response, is that in your old posts you seemed to really back obamacare and assumed you still back the president and his healthcare plan and therefore noted a trace of  hypocrisy when you mentioned that you didn't want to pay for some people, those with smoking addictions and those who were overweight. When those overweight smoking people were MADE to accept obamacare and then demonized for their way of life, you can't possibly hold it against them can you? If obamacare is all about equality for all and equal opportunity, its funny how fast it begins to segregate us into those who can pay more and those who can't. Obamacare only benefits those citizens who don't work and those who don't pay taxes imho.  J

[Casull]

Cost wise I would like to see if the cost of homosexual sex is any more costly than heterosexual sex .

 
 
 
Me thinks you're being glib.  I think we both know the answer to that one (not to mention that heterosexual sex is NECESSARY for procreation).