gun control and the shotgun

[SHOOTALL]

Well last week the most open adminstration in history sent VP Biden to VCU in Richmond Va. to have a closed door conference on gun control. It was taped and sound bites were released to the public. One was VP Biden endorsing the use of shotguns for home protection. Thus making assualt weapons not nessary.
 Nothing better than an endorsement from a gun grabber to make subjects feel all warm and fuzzy .

[magooch]

Does anyone really take anything that Ole Joe says seriously?  On the other hand, Biden wasn't wrong about a shotgun being a perfectly effective home defense weapon.  I've said all along that the right kind of shotgun is much more lethal than any semi-auto pistol, or rifle.  That's not to say that I agree with the notion that we don't need those scary black weapons. 

[tom548]

They do make some stupid and untrue (not this on on shotgun) statements, but if you read some of the people's comments under the news articles it is amazing how many people don't know any better and take what they see or hear as  if it were a fact. But any thing we say is scrutinized and considered form one of the gun nuts.

[jhm]

     Biden is just throwing a BONE to them, shotguns are used by LEO /MILITARY and the like, after they get their way on so  called assult weapons ban, their next step will be the shotguns because the leo/military use them and the general public dont need them!  Dont trust the gun grabbers they will work in BABY STEPS and will never give up.  Jim

[Doublebass73]

In that case crazy uncle Joe should recommend that our military switch over to shotguns and get rid of M16's

[twoshooter]

A "black rifle" is lighter and holds more rounds, but nothing does more damage than a shotgun, unless they are wearing armor. you can shoot someone center mass with a standard military 5.56 at point blank range and they might survive. Do it with a 12 ga turkey load and there is no way. Lets face it, the only place a AR would be superior would be against a SWAT type opponent. In a suburban environment, frame houses, high population density, there is no way using a high penetration round is justified. If you use fragmentation rounds, you loose much of the advantage of the rifle. An extended tube 12 ga with medium  shot will certainly discourage the average home invader/ burgular/ armed robber . Not detracting from your right to buy an AR, but just sayin'.........

[SwampThing762]

To me, gun control and the shotgun means many buckshot holes in a target.  And Smiling Joe Biteme is a snake oil salesman.

ST762

[yellowtail3]

i need a 20" barrel for my 870...

[Ranger99]

if i remember correctly, during the
austrailian gun grab, they took all
the semi-autos, shotguns included.
i can remember seeing pictures of
pristine auto-5's being chopped up.
i do believe that pumps are also
verboten for the average owner.

[mcwoodduck]

Shotguns are part of the CA assault weapons ban.
Semi auto shotguns with extended mags and pistol grips are illegal here.  And once it is a registered assault weapon you can not sell it in the state, or hand it to loved ones, it has to be either sold out of state, or handed in to the police.
Fienstien is from CA and if you think she is not going to look at the CA ban and copy it and the registration part and the limiting of ammo in the guns you are mistaken. 
Also the gun grabbers are incramentalists.  They will continue to take an inch and another, and onother.
So as we have morons that want to be famous and use a firearm to have theor name in the news, if they can not get one type they will get another and use it.  At some point the shotgun will be used and then the pumps, the semi autos too will be banned.

[KIMBER45]

I would like to see the numbers as to exactly how many black rifles have been used for protection in a home invasion by the home owner. I'll bet shotguns and handguns far outnumber the use of black rifles in such situations..

[magooch]

The Second Amendment does not limit our use of weapons to protecting our homes from home invasion.  And at the time it was written, there was no restriction on the size of hole it would inflict on a human body.


The actual intent of the Second Amendment, I think was to more, or less give the population some say in whether the rest of the Bill of Rights would survive a government such as we have right now.

[spruce]

Twoshooter said "unless they are wearing body armor".
 
What type of firearm poses the greatest threat to the GOVERNMENT?  Who wears body armor?
The police and military!  If your ultimate goal was to impose totalitarian rule over the people wouldn't you go after their most effective means of resistance first?

[Dixie Dude]

A lot of our colonial militia had better guns than the smoothbore muskets of the Brittish, because they had rifling and longer range.  So our milita had the assault rifle of the day, not the smoothbores of the regular army.  Until the Civil War civilians were as well equiped as the army.  After the Civil War the army standardised on the trapdoor Springfield 45-70.  This was because the millions of muskets used in the war could be converted to the Springfield model.  Civilians were better equipped with the 1873 Winchesters, the assault rifle of the day.  Army didn't change until the 30-40 Krag in the 1890's.  Then the 1903 Springfield 30-06.  Civilians were allowed to have these also.  Historically the gun grabbers don't have a leg to stand on as the "militia" is all the able bodied adults who can carry a weapon.  Organization was only needed to keep from having lynchings from mobs of civilians and if needed to control and direct their fire on an enemy.  Hate to say this, but Harry Reid is the key to keeping gun control off the senate floor for a vote. 

[SHOOTALL]

Biden also admited that assault weapons cause little crime/killing but they still need regulating.

[jparedes]

"The actual intent of the Second Amendment, I think was to more, or less give the population some say in whether the rest of the Bill of Rights would survive a government such as we have right now."


Listen to Magooch.  He is right. The reason for the second amendment was clearly explained by our forefathers as necessary for the common folk like us, to defend ourselves from a messed up government.

[mcwoodduck]

I would like to see the numbers as to exactly how many black rifles have been used for protection in a home invasion by the home owner. I'll bet shotguns and handguns far outnumber the use of black rifles in such situations..

And I am guessing that a Cresent wrench is used most often to loosen and tighten a nut or bolt.  That does not mean we should not beable to buy a rachet, monkey wrench or box wrench.  and if you want ot use a monkey wrench, vice grip or other item it should not matter what you use. 
We are talking about personal choice as to what you think is the best tool for the job. 
if we remove one class of tool then the others will become more prevelent, and then as we remove another group the one will be more so.
And are you saying we need to do what every one else does?  If the majority use a Revolver and or a pump shotgun are you going to hand in your 1911 and get a revolver or a shotgun?

[tobster]

"

I would like to see the numbers as to exactly how many black rifles have been used for protection in a home invasion by the home owner. I'll bet shotguns and handguns far outnumber the use of black rifles in such situations..

"     
              I agree but I would guess it's because far more shotguns and handguns probably exist in the general population than black guns. I have heard it said that the most ominous sound to a burglar is the sound of a pump shotgun being racked. When the gungrabbers say the founding fathers didn't imagine the ARs would exist when they drafted the 2nd Amendment , they probably didn't have radios, t.v.s, etc. in mind when they wrote the 1st Amendment. As was posted earlier, the rifled barrels that the founding fathers used were on the cutting edge of firearms technology at the time.

[SHOOTALL]

before the idea of what we use gets out of hand , the handgun is for having with you but allowing you to use your hands for other chores. It's best used to fight your way back to a rifle or shotgun. The shotgun is best as a defensive weapon for close encounters . I have a shotgun that will kill deer at an honest 60 yards but under fire I feel a shotgun is more like a 35 yard gun. Then the rifle it has little to endear itself to self defense. First should you be shooting at someone past 35 yards in self defense ? second is the power of a high power or even mid range power rifle a good choice when you are responsible for what the bullets you shoot destory or kill ?
 So no wonder there are few self defense uses of a rifle. But one fact remains in those few cases where a rifle is needed nothing else will even come close .

[nw_hunter]

before the idea of what we use gets out of hand , the handgun is for having with you but allowing you to use your hands for other chores. It's best used to fight your way back to a rifle or shotgun. The shotgun is best as a defensive weapon for close encounters . I have a shotgun that will kill deer at an honest 60 yards but under fire I feel a shotgun is more like a 35 yard gun. Then the rifle it has little to endear itself to self defense. First should you be shooting at someone past 35 yards in self defense ? second is the power of a high power or even mid range power rifle a good choice when you are responsible for what the bullets you shoot destory or kill ?
 So no wonder there are few self defense uses of a rifle. But one fact remains in those few cases where a rifle is needed nothing else will even come close .

Depends on who's doing the shooting I wouldn't hesitate to use one of my smoothbores for an offensive weapon out to 150 yds open sights.

Hickock45, a school teacher who has a youtube channel does some pretty impressive shooting at 230 yds. with a smoothbore shotgun using foster slugs. Not sure this link will work, but if not, then do a Google. Just type hickock54 230 yd shotgun video and google will do the rest. Granted! This guy is not your average shooter, but I wouldn't want to go head to head with this guy with any center fire open sight rifle. At least out to 250 yds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNTyCcip-ks

[Ranger99]

naw. . . . .that's fake.
i read in a hunting magazine that
regular foster slugs from a smoothbore
gun were semi useless past 50-75 yards.
same with 30/30's and pistol caliber rifles.
  hunting magazine. . . . . . .i read it. . . .i did. . .really

[powderman]

HUNTER. THanks for the link. I have an Ithaca mod 37 that pretty well shoots like rifle with the fosters. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

naw. . . . .that's fake.
i read in a hunting magazine that
regular foster slugs from a smoothbore
gun were semi useless past 50-75 yards.
same with 30/30's and pistol caliber rifles.
  hunting magazine. . . . . . .i read it. . . .i did. . .really

I did not watch the vedio but have been shooting a shotgun for 50 years . I have tried most aval. ammo. Foster slugs can hit well to a 100 plus yards maybe a bit farther with a particular gun and shooter . 250  OK if you sit at a bench and shoot using a sight post with elevation lines or aiming at objects over the target you might get on targer. But do you believe you will have the time to do such when being shot at ? I'll stick by my advice.

[Ranger99]

not trying to dispute your choices or opinions.


i'm told and read all the time about how
obsolete the firearms i use are and how
anemic the rounds i use are. i agree the
man in the video is doing a shooting stunt
and i would never try to shoot an animal
at that range. but - he did show the ammo
and the gun he used had plenty of steam
to punch right through that board and barrel
at that range, which i've been told before
that a foster slug in a smooth barrel wouldn't
even make it that far. i was impressed that
he was able to score offhand like that.
 were someone to be
shooting at me at that range my first thought
would be to get away, but i'd likely send a
few back if i could regardless of what i had
in hand.

[mcwoodduck]

not trying to dispute your choices or opinions.


i'm told and read all the time about how
obsolete the firearms i use are and how
anemic the rounds i use are. i agree the
man in the video is doing a shooting stunt
and i would never try to shoot an animal
at that range. but - he did show the ammo
and the gun he used had plenty of steam
to punch right through that board and barrel
at that range, which i've been told before
that a foster slug in a smooth barrel wouldn't
even make it that far. i was impressed that
he was able to score offhand like that.
 were someone to be
shooting at me at that range my first thought
would be to get away, but i'd likely send a
few back if i could regardless of what i had
in hand.

I used to hate the term Obsolete.  G&A used to use it all the time.  It would make me mad when they talked about one of the guns I owned or wanted as obsolete.  When I was a kid in Jr high school I wrote then, senting the Dictionary definition of Obsolete.  "No longer Used or no longer usefull".  And I will contend that some of the guns are obsolete for police or the military they are far from obsolete in civilian hands.  designs that are over 100 years old are still used and usefull to cowboy action shooters and they are quite effective with them.
A SXS coach style shot gun is effective, fast, and with 2 triggers the fastest way to shoot two shots ever made. 
357 magnum is no longer used by police but is very effective for huntng and personal protection.
And if you are using something like 38 S&W as long as you are using it it is not obsolete as you are useing it and it is useful to you no matter what others say about it.

[dwalk]

keep in mind...biden is in serious need of being in an institution for the mentally incompetent...

an 870 stoked with 00B, slugs or #8 shot WILL do the job at close quarters...anyone who thinks differently needs to re-evaluate their thoughts on it.


and as said above...military and LE use them...


and...crazy joe probably doesn't realize it...but the LEA's NATIONWIDE use the AR15...tune in joe...

[mechanic]

I have espoused the idea of the shotgun as home defense for years, esp. with those whose knowledge is limited.  Lately, I have pointed them  toward the economical double coach guns, whose operation is about as basic as it gets.
 
Now having said that, they are only practical for close quarter situations, and I back mine up with a handgun, AND a high cap. rifle.
 
Ben

[dakotashooter2]

He figured "if it's good enough for Dick Cheney....."

[rickt300]

I would like to see the numbers as to exactly how many black rifles have been used for protection in a home invasion by the home owner. I'll bet shotguns and handguns far outnumber the use of black rifles in such situations..

Your right, home invasion is not the reason we should all own "Black rifles", the need is real but it is about resisting tyranny. Got it? Ever read the Constitution? The Federalist papers? The most likely entity to enslave us is our own government, got it? How is it that all these people are absolutely clueless?

[mcwoodduck]

He figured "if it's good enough for Dick Cheney....."

And he shot someone in the head and he was not killed.
Had he been shooting Quail with an assault rifle like the media says we do I think a whole different story could be made.
And remember that Ted Kennedy's Oldsmobile killed more people than did Chaney's Shotgun.
So far the last few national headline shootings were done by Liberals that owned guns.
Collumbine - Parents were heavy DNC doners
VA Tech- Registered Democrat and professed Bush Hater
Giffords- Democrat also a Bush hater
Batman Movie moron - Democrat
Guy who shot JFK- Communist/ Leftist
Guy who shot Martin Luther King - Democrat
Maybe we can list being a registered Democrat as a mental illness and turn them down from owning firearms?