Author Topic: 45 or 454 casull??? (Read 1091 times)

Joe S. · « **on:** January 30, 2013, 08:09:29 AM »

i found a couple NIB Buffalo Classic carbines at a shop local and am considering getting one.

my delima is they have the 45's but they also sent some off and had reamed out to 454 cassull...
Only $50 more for 454.

what do i want to get???

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:12:44 AM »

I have two, one factory, the other is a 460S&W, ya can't have too many Handis!

You can still shoot 45C in the Casull if you only want one.

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:34:30 AM »

Joe, Is a 45C fully loaded all you want to shoot? Have you any notions of shooting Black powder or maybe something like Trail Boss where more boiler room will give you more beans, so the 454 would make some extra sense. Oh, and bigger/longer cartridges are easier to handle in cold and/or look snotty as can be when you are showing off the piece

. Finding 454 brass may be kind of a sometime thing? (but once you have some it should last a good long time).

Joe S. · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:39:52 AM »

want never has anything to do with it. lol

i can only afford one...

i still want to get the 30-30 but this one i think is a little more uncommon, so gonna get it first. am i right there?

Joe S. · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:42:14 AM »

gcrank, it will be my "primitive weapon" for hunting in MS's muzzleloader season. 100 yards is about my longest shot, so 45 should suffice. but i do like the idea of having options.

will 45 accuracy suffer at all with the longer chamber if i went with the 454?

RPRNY · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:46:50 AM »

Get the 454. I have one. You can shoot light cast 45LC over Trail Boss plinking loads up through 350 gr bear stoppers in 454. The 454 ream seems to clean up the H&R 45LC chamber rather nicely (so I have been told, I bought mine already reamed from a member here) and the 454 gives you reach with the likes of the Hornady 250 gr FTX out to 150 yards.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:52:10 AM »

They are a quite handsome rifle and if you are somewhat (or more) of a 'traditionalist' you will likely not want to part with it. IIRC those who have rechambered theirs are shooting just as well with 45C, or even better. Sometimes the reamers used to rechamber have a better design for the bullet to bore transition. I think you can use 45C dies to reload for the 454???
I am happily using Trail Boss in about everything (inc. bottleneck cases) now and for the 'little bit' extra I would be real inclined to get the 454 version if its is well done. Are they remarked for caliber too?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2013, 08:56:37 AM »

if you get the 45c you will want to ream it
for $50 probly not worth the wait

it goes from a little pop gun to a real boomer with the 454

slngblde · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2013, 09:04:11 AM »

I say get the 45lc, since you have the ruger in that caliber. Can always ream it later if you get the itch.. it wont be that long before i get another lathe.

That is a good price on the gun, you know what Drew traded me for the 45lc one i had.

Joe S. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2013, 09:05:36 AM »

Thanks guys. it will be shot mostly with the 45LC and my concern was accuracy suffering in the 454 reamed one. from what yall are saying it either shouldnt be an issue or may actually make it better. gonna try it.

not sure if it is marked as such. i didnt actually see the guns. talked to the gentleman on the phone. going to get in a little bit. stay tuned...

now the question... scope? or not?

Joe S. · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2013, 09:07:39 AM »

ha! yea, he was a little disappointed i think when i told him...

i will still shoot the 45 LC in it. if it is nice looking and not scratched up, etc. (shouldnt be. new) then i think i am gonna go ahead with the 454.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »

The nice thing about the H&R is that it is already D/Ted for the scope rail (not sure if one will come with your rifle, BUT get one in the deal) and open sights. Just mount up a lower powered scope and learn how accurate it is and if/when you want to shoot opens, drop the scope (but the rail will need to come off too so dont LocTite it on too hard).
If I didnt already have the 45-70 that I can load down I would be looking harder for one like you'll get.

Doc Fillem · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2013, 10:44:40 AM »

I bought a NIB Classic Carbine last year and before I even shot it I borrowed the site reamer from Quick and reamed the chamber for the 454. I am very happy with how it shoots, both 45Colt and the Casull.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:09:44 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on January 30, 2013, 08:56:37 AM

if you get the 45c you will want to ream it
for $50 probly not worth the wait

The GBO Casull reamer rental costs about half that @ ~$26 incl shipping for US residents.

Tim

rdlange · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:28:22 AM »

The 45LC is cheaper, and you can rent the reamer for $20, IF you decide. I wonder about the 454 already done, who did it and how well. You know the LC is factory so assume [yeah, I know] it was done right. So, I'd get the LC and DIY when/if I wanted. JMHO...

Joe S. · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:44:16 AM »

Well i got the LC. The casull had some scratches and was more. Also the LC had nicer wood. And glad to know i can rent the reamer for that. Looks like i did ok.

AND!! Called a buddy and he told me he has some BC sights he is gonna send me. Free!!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:48:12 AM »

Congrats Joe, the reamer is out now and due back any time, but there's no one else on the list.

It's a rifle reamer, so ya know it's the right one, a chamber done with a revolver cylinder reamer wouldn't touch the throat which could make a big difference.

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:50:46 AM »

Some of the chaps have found the factory LC chamber to be able to take the 460 length brass already (long throated chamber?) so you might be part way there. A chamber cast (if you dont have the Cerrosafe you can do a tolerable job with canning wax) or just beg or borrow a stick of 454 to try it for how deep it will go and do some figurin'.
Dont be tempted to turn it into a 45C 'Magnum' by going over book, pressures just start to spike way too fast. A heavy bullet at top book loads will likely go through anything you need it to.
The bigger 460 and 454 cases can go heavier charges and still keep the pressures safe.

Joe S. · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:51:38 AM »

Cool. Gonna play with it for a while as is and go from there. Thanks! Joe S.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2013, 11:56:14 AM »

The factory 45LC might chamber Casull brass or slightly shortened brass, but a loaded round won't likely, neither of mine would come close to even chambering new Starline Casull brass, let alone 460 brass.

Tim

45-70.gov · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2013, 01:11:31 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 30, 2013, 11:48:12 AM

Congrats Joe, the reamer is out now and due back any time, but there's no one else on the list. It's a rifle reamer, so ya know it's the right one, a chamber done with a revolver cylinder reamer wouldn't touch the throat which could make a big difference.

Tim

sounds like you made the best choice
mine would chamber loaded 454 befor reaming
but not sure if the crimp would open...SO I REAMED IT
only a few turns and a few oilings and they were done,,,,did 3
never done it before it was easy.....and just a few weeks after heart surgery
mine has a skinner lo-pro sight

geezer56 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2013, 03:48:24 PM »

True confession here. I was the original purchaser of the GBO reamer for 454, I bought it to do the 3 rifles I had at the time. It was then donated to the site to help all you enablers out there to feed your own addictions. It is indeed a rifle reamer, with a smooth taper to the lands, not the abrupt shoulder for a forcing cone like the revolvers use. With my ancient vision, and a decent scope, it would originally do about a 2-3 inch group at 50 yds using 45 LC ammo. Factory or handloads made no difference much. After the reaming, it wil do a group just under half that. With my nephew the marine on board, she will shoot about a half inch, all with 45 LC. The Casull doesn't open it up much if any, or shoot any better either. I still have one, my grandson has one, one I traded for something else, but the results were the same for all of them. That was a long winded way of explaining that the reaming to 454 wont hurt LC accuracy at all, and probably will help.

Joe S. · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »

Thanks a lot! I did notice while cleaning her up tonight that it had the abrupt shoulder.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2013, 04:27:40 PM »

Quote from: geezer56 on January 30, 2013, 03:48:24 PM

True confession here. I was the original purchaser of the GBO reamer for 454, I bought it to do the 3 rifles I had at the time. It was then donated to the site to help all you enablers out there to feed your own addictions. It is indeed a rifle reamer, with a smooth taper to the lands, not the abrupt shoulder for a forcing cone like the revolvers use. With my ancient vision, and a decent scope, it would originally do about a 2-3 inch group at 50 yds using 45 LC ammo. Factory or handloads made no difference much. After the reaming, it wil do a group just under half that. With my nephew the marine on board, she will shoot about a half inch, all with 45 LC. The Casull doesn't open it up much if any, or shoot any better either. I still have one, my grandson has one, one I traded for something else, but the results were the same for all of them. That was a long winded way of explaining that the reaming to 454 wont hurt LC accuracy at all, and probably will help.

thanx for your contribution

Joe S. · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2013, 04:44:11 PM »

Dang... It just dawned on me... I need brass...

cwlongshot · « **Reply #25 on:** January 31, 2013, 12:38:43 AM »

Morning,
Like Tim I also have both. I reamed my first 45 to 454 so I did not have to worry about hot loaded LC's from finding there way into a expensive SA Colt revolver...

I just took the 454 out last weekend as I swapped on some better Burris Rings to the Leupold 2x7 scope. This is a starting load of H110 and a 300g Speer Gold Dot bullet.

It shot the 45 Colts nearly as good, but I found that I needed to look for a good load as the load that shot well BEFORE reaming did NOT SHOOT well after the reaming!

My 45 Colt gun is a good shooter BUT not nearly as good as the 454...

I prefer the 454, I can shoot all the 45 Colts I want.
The 454 is engineered to handle the more potent 454 Cassul. It's biggest difference it that it utalizes a SMALL RIFLE primer pocket as opposed to the Long Colts Large Pistol. This helps immensely to consistantly ignite the large volumes of pistol powders used in it. Contrary to belief the cases in the Long Colt are PLENTY strong for the heaviest of loadings. Of coarse the 454 case with its smaller pocket is a miniscule amount stronger as a result, this is inconsiquencial in the bigger picture. The 454 is a more effieicent case for the loadings shot with this caliber.

Enjoy your 45 Colt, its one of the best looking Handi rifles in many peoples opinion. Reaming out a 45 to 454 is quick and easily finished by HAND. A Lathe is simply NOT needed for this caliber in this rifle.

Good luck,
CW

Joe S. · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2013, 01:36:02 AM »

Thanks for the input yall!

Thats some good lookin rifles there man!

Sourdough · « **Reply #27 on:** January 31, 2013, 04:26:04 AM »

Suggestion: Go with the 460 Smith. With that you can shoot all of the above, plus the 460 which is a far more potant cartridge. Who knows you may go hunting Bears with it some day. I would.

Joe S. · « **Reply #28 on:** January 31, 2013, 11:26:22 AM »

Ok i have stumped myself. Im reading load data while sitting in a deer stand. On IMR's site it has "ruger only" loads for handguns. Max pressure 30,000 cup. The 454 data gets up into the 40k cup. As long as i stay at the published data on IMR's site i should be good in the classic right?

Its when i get above those "ruger only" loads that it gets dangerous with pressure spikes, etc?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2013, 11:32:55 AM »

Quote from: Joe S. on January 31, 2013, 11:26:22 AM

Ok i have stumped myself. Im reading load data while sitting in a deer stand. On IMR's site it has "ruger only" loads for handguns. Max pressure 30,000 cup. The 454 data gets up into the 40k cup. As long as i stay at the published data on IMR's site i should be good in the classic right?

Its when i get above those "ruger only" loads that it gets dangerous with pressure spikes, etc?

You will be just fine with RUGER level AND even higher loads in the H&R.

BTW, the Cassull is loaded to 60K with some loadings!!!

CW