Author Topic: Distance capability  (Read 1288 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mike in Virginia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Distance capability
« on: February 03, 2013, 01:29:08 PM »
We all must admit that a double action revolver has it all over the new semi autos for accuracy.  The most accurate auto I ever owned was a Cold Gold Cup, but sometimes a round would spoil an otherwise terrific group.  3-shot cloverleafs were not uncommon with that auto, but a full magazine from that gun would invaribly be off.  Not so with a quality revolver.  Reliable accuracy comes from a revolver. 
So, my question is, how far (with any double action you have) can you always connect, considering no shooter error, as in from a bench or other solid rest.  My limit is about 80 yards.  That distance or closer, I will kill a groundhog size animal for sure and for certain.  Beyond that, I probably ought not even try it.  Although, at the range, shooting from the bench at 100 yards, I can usually stay within 6" with the iron sights that came on the gun.  Of all the revolvers I've had, only 3 were certain killers up to 80 yards:  a 6" Model 19, a 6" Model 686, and a 7.5" Super Blackhawk. 
No, I didn't shoot at big game at that distance with a .357, but a groundhog was easily killed if I had a rest.  (As I got older, I quit shooting at grounhogs.  If they pose a problem for farmers, I'd rather they take them out.  I was hunting open fields once in my 30's, in the spring, and I had that Model 19 lined up on a groundhog at about 50 yards.  As I started squeezing the trigger, a youngster came out of the hole, scampered to it's mama, and actually put his front legs around her neck.  That was it for me.)

Offline kynardsj

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (54)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1680
  • Gender: Male
  • Sweet Home Alabama
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 02:32:21 PM »
I agree. I've owned a few semi autos but they always get sold because the ones I had weren't as accurate as my wheel guns. The best I ever had for accuracy was the 22 LR, 10 inch Ruger Mk ll. If you could holt it steady it could compete with a rifle. As far as a centerfire, mine didn't hold a candle to my revolvers, that and because I reload, I hated looking for my brass every time.
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you rejoice.

Offline guzzijohn

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 05:18:44 AM »
Ed McGiverin, he author of "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting" has a whole chapter on this. If I recall he talks about shots out to 600 yards but I think that was with some "ranging shots".
GuzziJohn

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18273
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 01:31:05 AM »
ill have to argue a bit about the accuracy of semi autos. In fact some of the most accurate handguns ive ever owned or shot were 1911s. they may not all be tack drivers but when you get a good one its a GOOD one. Now im talking short range here. Out past 50 yards a revolver usualy does better but its not the function of the gun itself as much as the projectiles. Most 45acp bullets just dont stay stablil out past that range. At a 100 yards the revolver with its better bullet definately takes over in the accuracy dept. Ive had 1911s in 9mm and 45 that would shoot 10shot groups at 25 yards with all bullets touching and groups werent much bigger at 50 yards. Not many revolvers that will do that on there best day with there best loads. As to flyers ive probably had more problems again with revolvers in that aspect. You have to keep in mind that a 6 shot revolver is basicaly 6 guns. Every cylinder is just a tad differnt and lines up with the barrel just a bit differnt then the one before it. A semi auto is the same each time as long as your spring tensions are good and your using a bullet hard enough to not deform on the feed ramp and your not shooting a rattle trap gun you shouldnt be getting flyers. keep in mind that in modern bullseye competition revolvers for the most part have gone by the wayside and theres a reason for that.
blue lives matter

Offline bilmac

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 03:15:58 AM »
I have been down the same path as Kynardsj. Every auto I have tried I have later sold except for a couple of 22s. I also think I get about the same level of accuracy with my single action Rugers. Given the size difference between prairie dogs and woodchucks, I have made shots at 67 and 63 measured yards. I can't do that evert time, and only my 6'' gun will come close, but I think the limitations are the shooter not the gun.

Offline Mike in Virginia

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 01:34:23 PM »
I think maybe some autos are capable of incredible accuracy.  Like the .22's.  But the .45's can't possibly equal the accuracy of a revolver.  The bullet itself is short and fat.  It cannot be stabilized for long distance shooting.   In contrast to the .45 Colt, loaded to it's full accuracy potential, the big bore revolver will exceed the accuracy of an acp at extended distances.  Not only is it faster, much faster, the length of the projectile means it won't lose it's accuracy before target impact.  The acp is a wonderful round, but it has distance limititations.  A revolver, either double action or single action, firing a .44 or .45 caliber bullet, is limited only by the shooters ability.  Not talking about downrange power here, but accuracy.  If any of us were trying to hit a target 200 or 300 yards, none's of us would chose an auto. 
It's true that the cylinder holes of a revolver cannot be aligned perfectly with the barrel.  Maybe one or two of the cylinders are perfectly aligned.  I once sent a Ruger Super Blackhawk to Magnaport, for custom work.  Even though I didn't request it, it came back with cylinders numbered, one through six.  For a shooter to fully know his weapon, he could test and test again each cylinder at a time, and thus come to know which cylinder provided the best accuracy.  So, we are not referring here to the limitations of six cylinder accuracy, but revolver vs. auto. 
With that Ruger returned to me with numbered cylinders, I could not detect any difference in accuracy, using one cylinder for a group at a time.  But I'm sure some revolvers are not manufactured perfectly for perfect line-up.  But the difference between the slight off center line-up and the accuracy provided by a revolver vs. an an auto, is in reality a non-issue in quality firearms.  An auto feeds ammo from the magazine, and slams each round into firing position.  The frame and slide are two different entities.  Accuracy demands a perfet fit between slide and frame.  When tolerances are super tight, accuracy results, but not at long distance.  With a good match between slide and frame, you are still stuck with the caliber.  What auto with quality fit comes in a caliber that will sustain perfect flight at 200 yards.  None. 
The auto is a great creation, but is was made for close range battle, not for extended distance.  It is for numerous rounds propelled at a rate of fire the revolver can never match. 
If you need more than six rounds for defense, the auto is your best bet.  If you need ultimate accuracy at extended distance, their is no match for a quality revolver. 
Which brings me to another point.  Single action vs. double action.  The Ruger Blackhawk is an amazingly accurate gun, but the lock time cannot come close to that of a double action used in single action mode.  There is much to be said for the single action.  Feel, speed of target acquisition, pointability, natural target alignment.  But if we were to test the best single action against the best double action from the bench, the double action will always turn in the smallest group, simply because of lock time. 
I think I've talked myself into a new N frame. 

Offline FPH

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 02:09:06 PM »
I have had a Browning Medalist and a Colt Woodsman that were extremely accurate semi autos.  A Rugar black hawk in .357 Max.  and a model 27 that were dead on as a wheel guns.

Offline sharps4590

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 02:25:54 AM »
Evidently, as with probably more than a few gentlemen here, I grew up reading Elmer Keith and Ed McGivern.  I really wanted to try what they wrote about but a place to do so was not available until in my early 30's, (early 1980's), my wife and I bought our farm.  Oh boy....here's two 500+ yard pastures to shoot over when the cows are in the other.  And shoot we did.  One of my sons was and still is a big shooter and the other son enjoyed it but not to the same level.  My boys and I burned up a lot of ammo the 20 years we were on the farm.  I proved again almost everything Keith wrote.
 
I was never a real big hunter with a handgun, and for me that means a revolver, SA or DA, with iron sights, but have taken a few head of game and quite a bit of small game with one.  Back when I could see good I would have confidently taken a 100 yard shot at a deer.  However, on my old range using Keiths rest with your hands resting on your knees and your back against something solid or off a bench rest, a 5 gallon bucket was a gimme at 300 yards just about every shot and a 3 gallon bucket was hit more often than not.  The vast majority of that shooting was with a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt and a Colt New Frontier in 44 Spl.  Both with 7 1/2 in. barrels.  Other handguns were tried and played with but when it was time to hit something those were the chosen two.  I may be called a liar or laughed at but....that 5 gal. bucket....it was always real nervous at the full 500 yards...and had more than a few bullet holes at that distance.
NRA Patron, 2006
NRA Endowment, 1996
NRA Life, 1988
NAHC Life, 1985
There is no right way to do a wrong thing

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 02:42:08 AM »
I won't get into the revolver / auto accuracy debate as there are way to many things that can effect it like shooter ablity and how each particular gun shoots.
 as for hitting something with a revolver. If you want a hit at unknown range then a hundred yards or less . If at known range I have hit a plate 24 inches wide and 36 inches tall at 300 and 500 yards with regularty . The aiming point is not the plate but something above it with most guns . Once you get it dialed in it is easy to repete with a good rest. You can come back later and repete as long as the sun is close to the same.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gypsyman

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4853
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 09:55:52 AM »
Few years back, when I was shooting quite a bit of handgun silhouette, hitting a shootoff target at the 200 meter line was quite doable. That was with a 10'' .357 Dan Wesson. I think the sight radius has alot to do with it. Your semi auto's have pretty much a 6'' to 7'' sight radius, as the rear sight isn't that far back from the chamber. Where as, with say an 8'' revolver, your rear sight is another 2 to 2.5'' longer than the barrel lenght. That extra inch or so can mean alot. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline FPH

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2290
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 10:18:31 AM »
One of my favorite was a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Maximum with a 10 1/2" barrel.

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 10:20:32 AM »
One of my favorite was a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Maximum with a 10 1/2" barrel.

I shot the SBH 10.5 it to was a good gun
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: Distance capability
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2013, 10:33:04 AM »
I think for me it's the big grip and longer sight radius on my revolvers that give me better accuracy.  My longest barrel semi is only 4.5". 


I usually do get better accuracy out of fixed barrel semis compared to full slide guns.


And due to the weight of my big revolvers I don't get quite as much movement out of them.

"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."