Author Topic: Drones for use against American citizens?  (Read 3661 times)

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Offline Victor3

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Drones for use against American citizens?
« on: February 04, 2013, 11:38:19 PM »
 Maybe this is BO's alternative to the new Assault Weapons Ban. Since it's gonna go down in flames when it gets to the House of Representatives, he can just send a hellfire missile to see that YOUR house (along with your guns) goes down in flames too...


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/doj-drones-paper_n_2619582.html?ncid=webmail1


“It summarizes in cold legal terms a stunning overreach of executive authority –- the claimed power to declare Americans a threat and kill them far from a recognized battlefield and without any judicial involvement before or after the fact,” Shamsi said in a statement.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 12:06:33 AM »
That's unconstitutional.  obama sees the constitution as a roadblock to islam/communism.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Dee

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 12:29:14 AM »
The government under GW Bush used satalite imaging to enforce crop watering on farmers. Nothin new, just gets your attention when things are pointed at you. Collectively speaking of course.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline BBF

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 08:13:01 AM »
It doesn't feel all that good now when you get that stuff pointed at you, makes you feel like a bug getting ready to be squashed.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 08:17:49 AM »
I thought some here wanted those Muslim types wiped out no matter what. Even Powderman has repeatably stated that there is no such thing as an American Muslim so I guess that drone just killed a Muslim leader awhile back not an American.
GuzziJohn

Offline Dee

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 10:27:01 AM »
When Bush was water boarding muzzies the Dems were screaming to high heaven and folks here were defending Bush. Now, the Dems are blowin the same type of folks up that Bush was water boarding, and the anti Obama boys are indignant. This all proves that neither sides hypocrisy "knows any bounds". Both sides want'em dead but, are particular about who kills'em.
I personally feel that the folks that are the biggest threat to my freedoms are folks like guzziejohn.
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Offline spruce

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:04:02 AM »
This week it's Americans the regime "thinks" may be involved in terrorist activities. 
 
Next week it's Americans the regime "thinks" opposes them on _____________(insert issue of the day).
 
 

Offline Redtail1949

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 04:25:26 PM »
i personally do not care how or when they kill those that would harm us. i hope they multiply the drone strikes 100 fold. to hell with the terrorist and anyone near them american or not.
yep i know that it is possible that one day we all could be in the sights of a drone for such stuff as speaking against the state and so on.
when and if that day comes i will fight like everyone else. till then kill all the terrorist and those that associate with them they want.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 01:06:54 PM »
It makes no difference (to me) what race or nationality an enemy of the U.S. is or is not.  If the intelligence is there that shows a person is a terrorists or in cahoots with terrorists, I say take him out via a drone or any other method.  This comparison of a drone killing a terrorists to water boarding is stupid.  One doesn't have anything to do with the other. 
We don't know what the intelligence was.  I said in another thread that we don't need to know, that America runs on secrets.  They can't go blabbing every thing they know to citizens. 
Reminds me of the Sandy Hook "conspiracy."  You just don't need to know.  It ain't your business. 
Some will use any event at all to blast the liberals.  I despise the liberals, but they got the drone thing right.  If Bush were in office and made that move, it would be okay.   Just because Obama is a demented devil, doesn't mean he can't get something right occassionaly.

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 02:39:39 PM »
Mike,

Define: Terrorist.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 03:16:27 PM »
The definition of terrorist is not "a Muslim."  When whats-his-name said, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims," he was obviously incorrect.  Anyone that associates and plots with Muslims against America by doing violence to America is a terrorist.  Good grief.  Look at our nation of evil doers who are actually in the country.  Surely no one here believes all terriorist are overseas.  They dwell among us, and they are American citizens.  Citizenship has nothing to do with it.  Location has nothing to do with it. 
 
Not only do I believe the guy and his kid should have been evaporated, I'm also certain that to NOT kill them would have been cowardly and irresponsible.  As an American citizen who wants my country protected, I praise whoever made the decision.   

Offline BBF

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 05:06:17 PM »
To legalize the killing of American citizen abroad via drones is only a small step away from using it against anyone labeled terrorist by the Govt in the home turf.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 05:46:15 PM »
I wonder how many people on this very forum are considered "terrorists" by this government simply due to the fact that they believe in freedom, liberty and the Bill of Rights as written? We will see assassination via drone of of US citizens right here withn the borders of the good ole' USA sooner rather than later
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2013, 02:52:00 AM »
Americans on foreign soil are not covered by the Constitution. That stops at our borders. "Americans" killed on foreign soil are not subject to our laws. That has been a legal precedent for many years, and has been employed by administrations of both parties to kill traitors, drug dealers, and suspects outside the country. Basically, whatever you do in another country (other than sell state secrets), you have not broken any US laws. (I know, we arrested Manuel Noriega and he had never even been to the US--- he's still in jail, no?)
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

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Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2013, 04:43:43 AM »
So if I have a bunch of unpaid parking tickets here in the states and I go on vacation in Europe somewhere should the authorities here be allowed to instruct the authorities in europe to murder me on sight? Or maybe the locality where I have the unpaid tickets could target me with thier drone while I am in Europe. I would be in Europe so the Constitution doesnt apply to me there right?
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 05:44:26 AM »
No, Lakota.  See how these things get weirded out?  You can go to Iran with unpaid parking tickets and be just fine, unless the Iranians get you.  All that's happened here is an American citizen went abroad and reliable intelligent revealed he was up to no good and an enemy of America.  He has no American rights once he leaves the U.S.  So he got wasted just like the foreign bad guys get wasted. 
You can't take that event and turn it into drones firing on citizens in the U.S., although I'm all for it if they are an enemy.   

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 06:37:46 AM »

You can't take that event and turn it into drones firing on citizens in the U.S., although I'm all for it if they are an enemy.

There is the problem. Who gets to decide who the "enemy" is? What qualities would make you an enemy of the state? If you grant that power to the current regime to decide these things half of the members of this forum would probably be exterminated by drones. Ted Nugent would be targeted. Dr. John Lott would probably be droned out. The minister at your local church might be assassinated, or maybe the entire congregation.
 
Basically holding any difference of opinion with the state could make you an enemy and subject you to "cleansing" via drone.
 
And what about the bystanders that may be killed by the drone strike intended for you? Even though they didn't even know you and had no dog in the fight would their deaths also be justified? Would the fact that they were in such close proximity to you make them enemies of the state by association?
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2013, 09:30:52 AM »
No, this is just an excuse to blame Obama.  Nothing at all wrong with that killing.  Very appropriate.  Untold numbers of insurgents get smoked from afar.  The fact that he was American has nothing to do with it.  He needed dead and he got dead.  It makes no sense to use this to think an American, or even a foreigner, is going to get killed by the gov't when they are on American soil.  I feel certain there are plenty who need killing, but that's not the issue.  People have freaked out because he carried his label of American away from home.  Why did he do that?  There is your answer.  He was plotting against you and your family and your freedom and your country. 

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2013, 09:53:44 AM »
Maybe he was plotting but the fact that an American in a foreign land was executed by a drone with no trial, coupled with the fact that there are drones now patrolling US airspace and the number of drones doing so is increasing should be more than a little troubling. Why do they need drones in US airspace? To write more speeding tickets? What is the purpose of the new Unmanned Domestic Air Patrol?
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2013, 11:06:38 AM »
Lakoa, that is a good question.  I don't know.  Someone needs to look into that for sure.   

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2013, 02:00:02 PM »
So if I have a bunch of unpaid parking tickets here in the states and I go on vacation in Europe somewhere should the authorities here be allowed to instruct the authorities in europe to murder me on sight? Or maybe the locality where I have the unpaid tickets could target me with thier drone while I am in Europe. I would be in Europe so the Constitution doesnt apply to me there right?


Nixon's crooked DEA did exactly that to drug dealers and smugglers.  Better pay those tickets!  Or at least stay in the US...
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »
No, this is just an excuse to blame Obama.  Nothing at all wrong with that killing.  Very appropriate.  Untold numbers of insurgents get smoked from afar.  The fact that he was American has nothing to do with it.  He needed dead and he got dead.  It makes no sense to use this to think an American, or even a foreigner, is going to get killed by the gov't when they are on American soil.  I feel certain there are plenty who need killing, but that's not the issue.  People have freaked out because he carried his label of American away from home.  Why did he do that?  There is your answer.  He was plotting against you and your family and your freedom and your country.

Exactly! 8)
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 02:22:07 PM »
Oh no!  I've said something that Chung agrees with. 

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2013, 02:55:47 PM »
No, this is just an excuse to blame Obama.  Nothing at all wrong with that killing.  Very appropriate.  Untold numbers of insurgents get smoked from afar.  The fact that he was American has nothing to do with it.  He needed dead and he got dead.  It makes no sense to use this to think an American, or even a foreigner, is going to get killed by the gov't when they are on American soil.  I feel certain there are plenty who need killing, but that's not the issue.  People have freaked out because he carried his label of American away from home.  Why did he do that?  There is your answer.  He was plotting against you and your family and your freedom and your country.

Exactly! 8)

OK CDQ, since you are ok with the execution of citizens who haven't had their day in court you should also be in favor of accelerating the executions of death row inmates who have been tried, convicted and sentenced. What say ye?
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2013, 11:22:46 PM »
 These two police shootings happened within 3 miles from my house yesterday. Missiles from police drones would have been more effective, seeing as how they obviously had such good 'intel' and all.  ::)


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html


Two women who were shot by Los Angeles police in Torrance early Thursday during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer were delivering newspapers, sources said.The women, shot in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue, were taken to area hospitals, Torrance police Lt. Devin Chase said. They were not identified. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back, according to Jesse Escochea, who captured video of the victims being treated.It was not immediately known what newspapers the women were delivering. After the shooting, the blue pickup was riddled with bullet holes and what appeared to be newspapers lay in the street alongside.


A second shooting, involving Torrance police officers, occurred about 5:45 a.m. at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street in Torrance. No injuries were reported in that incident.

Chase said that in both instances police came across vehicles they thought were similar to the one Dorner is believed to be driving. Neither vehicle was Dorner's.
"Now it appears neither of them are directly related," Chase said. "In both of them, officers believed they were at the time."




I drive right by the 2nd shooting location 5 nights a week after midnight, in a truck similar to the suspect's. :o
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2013, 02:48:09 AM »
No, this is just an excuse to blame Obama.  Nothing at all wrong with that killing.  Very appropriate.  Untold numbers of insurgents get smoked from afar.  The fact that he was American has nothing to do with it.  He needed dead and he got dead.  It makes no sense to use this to think an American, or even a foreigner, is going to get killed by the gov't when they are on American soil.  I feel certain there are plenty who need killing, but that's not the issue.  People have freaked out because he carried his label of American away from home.  Why did he do that?  There is your answer.  He was plotting against you and your family and your freedom and your country.

Exactly! 8)

OK CDQ, since you are ok with the execution of citizens who haven't had their day in court you should also be in favor of accelerating the executions of death row inmates who have been tried, convicted and sentenced. What say ye?

Go for it! I've never opposed execution for certain types of criminals. Mass murderers, serial killers, Wall Street bankers (sorry, I DO have my little fantasies  ;) ), can not be rehabilitated and safely released among the rest of us, do, why waste time? I DO think their convictions should be beyond a shadow of a doubt...
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 03:12:35 AM »
Convictions must be beyond a shadow of a doubt in order for a convicted murderer to be executed but no trial is necessary for a drone execution because clandestine intell has condemned someone else to be an enemy of the state. Sounds perfectly reasonable::)
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 03:04:34 PM »
As long as the criminals are HERE and the drone strikes happen over THERE, you're not comparing apples to apples.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 03:52:47 PM »
As stated earlier, you can't leave the U.S. and retain your U.S consitutional rights.  I don't see why that simple concept is no taccepted by intelligent and educated citizens.  Leave your home country at your own risk.  The same concept applies to citizens of other nations who come here.  They must comply with U.S. law.  U.S. law does not apply, and should not apply, to someone on foreign soil. 
If a foreign nation allowed a citizen to come to the U.S., and that citizen proved himself to be a terrorist, an enemy of his home nation, what action should that nation take?  If they had drone capability, they should remove him from existence. 
A trial is not a thing an American in a foreign nation has a right to.  No one's rights have been violated when an American citizen leaves his home.  He is physically outside the country that grants him rights.  He has no U.S. rights once he leaves.  None.  His title as an American means nothing if he's on foreign soil.  What is so difficult to comprehend about that simple fact? 
If you don't want to be attacked by a U.S. drone, don't leave the U.S. 
Stuff like that happens, but always the cry babies object.  He should have taken his demise into consideration.  He should have figured that if he left America to consort with America's enemies, he wouold be a target for America's might. 
Lordy, I don't understand how an American could make a statement in favor of such a deviant.  He left us, he consorted with terrorists, he was against his own country.  Death from a drone was too kind. 
 

Offline lakota

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Re: Drones for use against American citizens?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2013, 05:26:30 PM »
As long as the criminals are HERE and the drone strikes happen over THERE, you're not comparing apples to apples.

Killed by the state is killed by the state it doesnt matter if you are here, way over there, or somewhere in between.  And I am not saying that this one joker that we know about who was droned out is innocent. I am simply saying it sets a dangerous precident with consequences that we will feel here with all of the drones that are now flying our friendly skies. Anyone who belives that these drones will not be abused here sooner or later is very naive.
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