Author Topic: Motor oil- what's good, what's not  (Read 5415 times)

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Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2013, 05:31:53 AM »
Fleet Wholesale Supply is the API License holder. Citgo is the blender. It is a named synthetic SN, Energy Conserving, ILSAC GF-5 rated oil. They are stretching the truth calling it a synthetic as it is a Gp II+ base oil. The Gp II+ base oils are processed just like a Gp III but lacks the Viscosity Index rating. Viscosity Index in basics is what allows the base oil to make the viscosity spread(from 5w cold to 30 hot) without the aid of polymers. While todays polymers are better than those of the sludge causing polymers of the 90's, they will still separate out over time causing sludging issues, especially during winter or in high humidity areas. This is why you don't use Lucas, it's nothing but polymers. If you need more viscosity, use the correct oil, not additives. This is not an oil that I would personally buy but if it's all I had at hand, it certainly isn't going to hurt anything. I would not suggest running it much past 3500 miles without aid of SEVERAL oil analysis reports. Oil analysis is about trending an oil, not a one time "let's see what it's doing" kinda thing.
Hope that gives you the info you need,
L

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2013, 12:57:37 AM »
Larry i live in the cold north and do like the way synthetics flow at even below zero temps so what in your opinion is the best syn. oil to buy.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2013, 04:54:02 AM »
OK I also have a question Larry, If you live in Texas where it rarely gets below 30 degrees do you need a 5w - 20W type oil, or can you just use a 20w? 
Any thoughts on that?
 
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Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2013, 12:35:14 PM »
Quote
Larry i live in the cold north and do like the way synthetics flow at even below zero temps so what in your opinion is the best syn. oil to buy.

A synthetic does not guarantee you the best cold flow rate. Since you are a Mobil fan and I think I remember you have been using Mobil One in 5w-30, I'd suggest starting with M1 Extended Performance oils and look at the CCS rating of the oil. CCS= Cold Crank Simulator. The lower the number, the better the cold flow rates. Then I would suggest looking at Kendall with Titanium, and Pennzoil Ultra. All of these are multibased synthetic rated oils. I didn't list any others as I don't think you'd change to a non-synthetic. But you can check the non-synthetic products at the various makers for the CCS rating. Another one to check would be G Oil. And if you are changing the oil yerself, check their website for a free 5 qt bottle. It has a great additive package and the ester base will naturally clean the insides of the engine better than most flushs. The CCS on it 4120 at -30C
 
Quote
  If you live in Texas where it rarely gets below 30 degrees do you need a 5w - 20W type oil, or can you just use a 20w?

If you could find a straight 20 oil, in most areas of Texas you could easily use it with zero issues. SAE recommends 20 viscosity oil down to 0F for cold startup. Traveller makes a 20W-20 that I've run on test in the winter in a 4.6 Triton and wear metals were single digit for a 5000 mile run. That's not what the unit normally uses considering the truck belongs to me. But when they pay you to use it and you know what's in the bottle, what's not to like. My normal is Motorcraft oil and I have never had a report ever show anything but single digit wear metals. I've had the same results with the newer formulation of G Oil but thats a 5w-30 but it's just barely a 30 at 9.3 cST (9.29 cST would make it a 20). If your unit can stand the slightly heavier viscosity, the G Oil is a good one but it's not for any engine that sits a lot or is driven for short runs only. The ester base doesn't handle the condensate very well. For engines that can use a 5w-30 oil, the G Oil is the top performer today. Maybe someone will make a better formulation tomorrow but today, G Oil is tops.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2013, 12:55:38 PM »
Thanks Larry
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline charles p

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2013, 02:27:15 AM »
Please explain what G oil is for the less experienced.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2013, 08:32:31 AM »
Quote
Please explain what G oil is for the less experienced.

Gee Charlesp, you don't ask for much....short of a book. G Oil is made from tallow or in easier terms, animal fat. The fats are blended with an alcohol to make a Polyol Ester based fluid. That's the short explanation of what the base oil is. Esters have the lowest natural cold flowabilty as compared to a crude based oil. Most jet engine fluids are esters to stand up to incredible temp changes without effecting lubricity. Note, esters are the only base fluid out there that are not made from a crude base. All of the other synthetic base oils are made from hydrocarbons that come out of the ground. Esters have lower NOACK or in laymens terms, they will evaporate less. API says that 15% NOACK is acceptable. G Oil in the 5w-30 is about 6.3. The reason for this is due to its polarity. They have an intermolecular attraction that requires more heat energy for the base to transfer from a liquid to a gas. Polarity means the ester molecules are attracted to metals that are positively charged. Because of the film cling, additional energy is required to wipe the surface clean of the base fluid. That's called film strength. Stronger film strength = higher lubricity and lower energy consumption. Esters are a natural solvent and dispersant. That means a much cleaner operating environment.G Oil is also bio- degradable. Per G Oil data sheet, 60% in 28 days. So if you like things Green, here's yer oil.
Here's some propaganda from G Oil. Most of it is real which is almost rare in motor oil claims. They do run specials on their oils which includes a free 5 qt jug at times. My Supercrew calls for a 5w-20 oil. The spec is mostly to meet C.A.F.E. requirements for Ford. I track every tank of gas and using G-Oil 5w-30 resulted in no loss of fuel mileage across the 5000 mile run. Considering it's actual viscosity at temp is just above the spec for a 20, that would be correct. G Oil is a great product but it's no magic bullet, it's motor oil. It won't cure any issues with the exception of maybe small seal leaks and clean the engine. It won't stop a young girl from getting pregnant, or stop a bank robbery, it's just a good oil. So don't expect miracles from it. The blends will still turn in averagely the lowest wear metals.
http://www.greenoilplus.com/fraqs2.html
http://www.getg.com/productAssets/msds/MSDS%20G-Oil%205w-30%20Bio-Based%20Full%20Synthetic%20Green%20Motor%20Oil.pdf
 
Now, with all of the above stated, esters alone will not lubricate an engine. Any base fluid MUST have a good additive package or the lubrication fails. It's call synergism. The additives and the base fluids must compliment each other or the whole package fails. That's another reason to never use any additives to the oil. It can easily unbalance the formulation. In the case of the current G Oil 5w-30 formulation, its about as good as there is on the market for an OTC motor oil.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2013, 05:06:46 PM »
 8)   just kidding, I do really appreciate your knowledge.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2013, 10:15:29 PM »
Larry i went to there sight and didnt see anything about a free sample. Is there another link?
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Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2013, 08:25:59 AM »
Llyod, they don't have any free 5qt bottles on promotion right now but they run them several times a year. Here's the promotions page. Walmart is the supplier in my area. If you trust yer Walmart to change the oil in your GM, they do have a 10 dollar rebate on a 6qt package. The rebates so far have been good and I haven't heard anybody complain about not getting it.
http://www.getg.com/Promotions.php
 
Most of the motor oil makers offer coupons. What ever brand you use, do an internet search for coupons. It ranges from free to 10 bucks or more.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2013, 01:03:50 AM »
thanks Larry.
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Offline FPH

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2013, 10:05:17 AM »
Larry

An opinion on a oil additive called Restore?I have a V-8 with 238,000 miles on it and it could stand a bit of it's old ump back.  I'm just not looking to gum up the engine.  Thanks for your help.  Alum. block if that makes any difference.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2013, 02:59:08 PM »
Restore is a product like most additives, it should never be used by anyone other than a fool. Restore is full of lead and copper particles. The idea is that the lead and copper will burnish itself onto the metals parts restoring lost compression. The fact is that any particulate soft enough to burnish itself on cylinder walls is far too soft to stay there. What doesn't fill the oil filter will cause excessive wear in the engine. Never put this in an engine unless it's an absolute beater that all you're looking for is for it to run long enough to get you home.
Depending on what engine it is, you can probably see some improvement by going to a dual rated oil. There are many out there like Rotella, Delo, Delvac, etc. A dual rated oil will come to you as a high cSP made oil and will have more detergents in the formulation. It will clean most deposits out the engine in a reasonable amount of time yet not strip lubrication. Might consider moving up to the respective oil viscosity rating over what you've been using if it's using oil. The dual rated oils are more tolerant and in a lot cases will stop or nearly stop oil burning. Because of the increased viscosity, the oil pressure will rise some at all speeds.
Short engine lesson here- area of interest is the lower end of the engine. Consider a new engine and all parts are tight like a new engine would be. We use the correct viscosity oil, in this scenario a 5w-20 oil. While you might think that the connecting rods follow the crank around in a perfect circle- they don't. As the parts wear in, they wear so as a wedge of oil is formed just in front of the torque applied by the pistons to the crankshaft. So the rods actually follow an elliptical shape rather than a circle. This is normal and it's also in thousandths of an inch. As the lower bearings wear in, they wear according to the viscosity of the oil. A 5w-20 will wear less than a 30 or even a 40 oil. This is normal and the differences can be measured at about 50,000 miles. So using that data to our benefit, using a heavier oil after the first 100-125,000 miles can actually prolong engine life. Here's how. Using a heavier oil means the oil has more resistance to flow and doesn't leak out of worn bearings nearly as bad. As the rod bearing caps come around, they spray oil on the cylinders and bottoms of the pistons. As bearings wear, they start to lose the oil volume sprayed on the cylinders as it leaks out of the worn bearings. Engines/ring packs can actually be running in an oil starvation condition from it. Using a heavier oil restores some of the oil pressure at the worn bearings and more oil ends up on the cylinder walls providing lubrication to the rings which increases engine life.

Offline FPH

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2013, 03:11:25 PM »
Larry

First of all, thanks for the warning.  I use high mileage oil in it now.  Had always run synthetic Castrol in all my gassers( have gotten 220,00 to 330000 miles out of them before I sold them....5 of them) until now.  I use Rotella in my diesel and it just rolled over 345,000.  Good pressure & no engine problems.

Offline Savage

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2013, 08:38:16 AM »
Larry L,
I always thought I had a pretty good handle on motor oils. Thanks to you, it turns out that I don't!

Got into the habit of using Castrol back in my motor cycle days and carried it over to present times. I am currently using Castrol Edge in my current vehicles.
2002 Dodge PU 4X4,  4.7 gas burner, 149k miles. Use it to pull my bass boat maybe a dozen times a year, usually less than 100 miles per trip. Otherwise, only occasional use, short trips <20miles.

2003 Chrysler Van, 3.5 gas engine, 112k miles, used 3-4 times a month, short trips <100 miles.

2009 Nissan Sentra, 2.0 gas engine, 51k miles, primary driver, around 15k miles a year.

Is there any one "Best" oil to use in all three of these vehicles, or do I need different oils for each due to there usage?

I would value your recommendations.

Thank You,
Savage
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Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2013, 06:38:57 PM »
Good news first, the Nissan 2.0 is the engine used by most all R&D centers as it is an extremely simple engine and has zero bad wear characteristics. If you look for any of the oil testing sequences, you'll probably find the test was done with yer engine. The Nissan 2.4 is also used for the same reasons. If you like the Castrol Edge, it's a good oil. Can you do as good but with a cheaper product, yes. Chevron Supreme (Costco has it on sale a lot), Pennzoil Yellow Bottle, Motorcraft oil are very good choices in that engine. OCI at 5000 miles or if you want to trend the engine, get an oil report on the oil at 5000 miles and let it tell you when to change. TBN at 1.0 says it's time to change. Oil report costs about 25 bucks. Sampling kits are normally free.


The other two vehicles are not good news. The 4.7 just like the 3.5 has a pretty lousy PCV system and as such these engines CAN generate significant amounts of sludge. If you've ever pulled the oil fill cap off and found a milky looking substance, you've got problems. No oil will cure bad engineering. You just need to drive these units more at a time or at least take them for a ride in the country once a month to cook off moisture/condensate. The engine will need to stay at full operating temp for at least 45 minutes. For these two units, I'd suggest Pennzoil Yellow Bottle. It has a lot of detergents in the mix. Or, you can step up to Rotella in a 5w-30 if you can find it. LOADS of solvency in the base oil and a lot of detergents in the mix.


Overall, Pennzoil Yellow Bottle will work in all 3 if you want to stay with the same product. It's kinda hard to find a BAD motor oil if it wears a popular brand name and meets API requirements. Optimizing oil for specific units can pay out dividends.


So you might have an idea of what a test is, here's the IVA testing using a 2.4 grouped engines. Might review the test procedures to see what happens during a test and how it is run. IVA testing is a simple test and an easy one at 100 hours. Some run as long as 1500 hours, some as long as 16 hours. This IVA test is the one Mobil One 5w-30 ONLY has been failing.
http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/gastests/ivatest/

Offline FPH

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2013, 06:57:25 PM »
Blackstone will send you a test kit for free.

Offline Savage

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2013, 02:11:08 AM »
Larry, thanks for the information! So far, I haven't seen the milky residue in the subject vehicles. I do remember how prominent it was years ago with the old non detergent oils.
I'm going to change the two older vehicles to the Pennzoil next oil change for sure. Perhaps even the Nissan.
One last question if I may: What can you tell me about the Walmart labeled synthetic oils?
Thanks again for the enlightenment!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2013, 04:56:01 AM »
Walmart holds the licenses on their oils. Obviously they don't make them. From Walmart Purchasing, their synthetic oils are made by Safety Kleen. SK is an oil recycler. They take the oils that Walmart generates from oil changes and process it into a Gp III severely hydrocracked base oil. This process is the licensed version of Chevrons ISO/SYN. It removes impurities at the rate of 99.8% per Chevron. The additive package is per Walmart specs, a formulation that they bought from Lubrizol. It's an okay oil formulation but not a candidate for any environment outside of the average driver. As with any product, if you pay a premium price you should get premium results. As with most synthetic oils, it doesn't deliver anything over a much cheaper conventional oil.


 

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2013, 01:33:18 PM »
I didn't read the whole thread so forgive if it's already mentioned. The oil companies reduced zddp (zinc) in their oils to comply with new standards for catalytic converters. Everyone used to go with shell rotella because they were the last holdout. Diesel oils also dropped the zinc levels. So pretty well if you have an older pushrod engine like a 350 then you have to run racing oil or zddp additive with your oil. The newer roller engines are said to have less need of zinc because there is less friction. With a pushrod engine the lifters and or cam will wear down without the zinc to lubricate. The old zinc level lists go out of date pretty quick as the oil companies try to meet federal mandates so you may want to check with the oil manufacturer for the level if you are running an older engine or new small engine/atv/motorcycle or whatever. A lot of folks think they are doing a good thing by running synthetic in their street rod but they find out in a year or two they need a new top end, then if they switch back to a conventional with a higher zddp they are leaking everywhere. I know the heavy duty valvoline diesel oil I just got was low in zddp so I had to get an additive for my tractor. Two or three years ago diesel oil wasn't touched by the mandate.
Molon labe

Offline FPH

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2013, 02:36:57 PM »
Larry

My understanding is that most "synthetics" are actually cracked hydocarbon based dino oils.....and that a true made made synthetic is more rare.  Correct me if I'm misinformed.

Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2013, 03:42:21 PM »
Bugflipper, you have recited a common myth. I have no clue who generated it but the assumption that cam wear will increase with reduced levels of ZDDP is pure BS. Example, ZDDP is not allowed in formulations for piston driven airplanes. Yet they are flat tappet engines and cam wear is not an issue. It's a lot like the 3000 mile oil change- old habits are hard to break.


FPH, in the 90's most anything that was called a synthetic was a PAO based oil. That's ethylene gas to liquid technology that actually was first made back in the 1920's by Standard Oil of California. And we think it's a new wonder base. Anyway, the PAOs are being used in other industries and we've watched as the price has gone astronomically up. You just can't afford to use it as a base oil anymore. Add, the gas has become harder to get which has been another cost driving force. You normal OTC synthetic oils are of the crude type and are a liquid and gas to liquid technology so yeah, they are dino based oil. The exception to this would be an ester based oil but there's only one and that's G-Oil. A lot of folks think Redline is ester based but chromatography says it's only 12-15% polyol ester. Your higher priced synthetics like Amsoil use an ultra high Viscosity Index PAO to fortify their Gp III base oils but the amount is small by comparison.
PAO=Polyalphaolefin
http://www.ihs.com/products/chemical/technology/pep/reviews/exxonmobils-ultra-high-viscosity.aspx

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2013, 06:12:22 PM »
 Larry this stems from drag racing. More specifically the cam manufacturers. It is recommended to break in a camshaft with a zddp additive then run the proper amount after changing the oil after breaking the cam in.
Molon labe

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2013, 02:38:04 AM »
Larry one post not to ask a question but to thank you for sharing all of your knowlege with us!
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Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2013, 08:43:37 AM »
No doubt Larry, that is a lot of good info to read.
Molon labe

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2013, 09:23:06 AM »
Just a question or two.

I used to change oil every 3,000 miles or even sooner without fail.

Now I have gotten to lazy and no longer enjoy crawling around on crushed granite to change oil. (still do on occasion but not like I used to)

What is your opinion on Brad Penn oil.
 They  still use the Pennsylvania crude. ( I used to run straight 30 summer, 20w-20 winter, changing to 10 if it got too cold, Pennzsoil.  I found out that the ten degrees between 30 and 40 below makes a lot more difference than one thinks before dealing with it.)
Back in the old days.
Their high performance question man,, that used to run in a lot of car magazines probably did a lot for their market share.

I also found out the hard way, decades ago, that a true synthetic does make a world of difference in below zero starting, but it you have ANY oil leaks it will find them and exit out of them.

Now there are synthetics based on modified crude oil and there are true synthetics which are alcohol based.
The true synthetics which came to be first for jet engines, are they better, by any measure, than one made from a modified crude.



Offline Savage

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2013, 02:08:10 PM »
Larry, I too would like to thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge. I have read this thread through a couple of times, and check for new posts daily. I feel I have learned enough from it to make better decisions on motor oils.
Thank You!
Savage
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2013, 03:40:41 PM »
I have always been of the opinion different oils should be used at different stages of a motors life -  for example. 
The oil I use in a new motor is entirely differentv than an oil I use in a motor that has aged and worn parts. 
As my Mileage increases to over 80k I usually switch oils , as well as climate changes which may also dictates
which oils I use .

Additionally ,
antique autos have their own specific motor requirements because Zinc and phosphorous content continues to drop in modern motor oils. A number of companies market oil formulated specifically for collector cars.

Semper Fi
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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Offline Larry L

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2013, 06:54:39 PM »
Bob, son, you are old to have used that kinda oil. You were driving in the 50's, I was still a kid. Pennsylvania crude at one time was the absolute best crude feedstocks to make motor oils from. The reason is because in those days the refineries were only using solvent refining to remove impurities. It really didn't yield a clean product but it was better than nothing. The crude was the "sweet" type meaning it didn't have a boatload of sulfur in the crude that had to be removed, like the Arab crap we get today. So the motor oils made from it were the purest available.
Brad Penn oils. We have an absolute zero in the database on it. I've heard of it and what I heard wasn't good but ya know how scuttlebutt is- it might be right and it might be BS. So no, I have no information on it.
In regards to cold startups, check the oil you want to use at the makers website. Look for the CCS rating- less is better. The Cold Crank Simulator Test actually tests the oils ability to flow and how much energy it takes to move the oil within the lube system.
The alcohol based oils are those that we call esters, mainly polyol ester but there are other esters available like a diester. These actually offer in the lab a hair more lubricity than any petroleum based lube. But the difference is so small that it becomes irrelevant data. There's no particular reason to use it for the average driver. It has more solvency than a crude based oil so it will clean better. It's not subject to any bad characteristics due to temperatures so it's a great base to make an oil from. There's only one motor oil made from polyol ester as the entire base oil and that's G Oil. It's only available, as far as I know, at Walmart and runs just under 30 bucks for a 5qt jug, usually.
While jet engines sounds like a good simile,  they are more kin to a hydraulic pump than an internal combustion piston engine. While a jets lube system has to provide for temperature extremes and sudden temperature extremes, they do not have to deal with combustion deposits or particulates or acids. The biggest issue with jets is making the transition from say 100F summer time temps at the runway to -35F at altitude. The esters handle this quite well.


Scootrd, the statement about the antique engine is not quite true. ZDDP wasn't used as an additive until after WWII. It was found to be a cheap way to get more miles out of an engine. It works as an anti- oxidant, oxidation inhibitor, anti-wear agent, extreme pressure lube, friction modifier, and a metal deactivator. That's a lot of hats to wear for one additive  But it comes at a cost. What most folks are not aware of is that it is a non-functioning additive until it gets to about 150F. It fails at lubing if the temps get over 350F. We now employ borates, MoTDC , Antimony,organic sulfur-nitrogen compounds, borate esters, a host of diamylcarbamates, and others to take the place of ZDDP.  MoTDC is another compound that takes the place of ZDDP and wears many hats as well. It will exceed anything ZDDP ever dreamed about when it comes to lube strength- over 500,000lbs. It will plate an engine with a thin hard coat of extremely slippery dry film that can take several oil changes just to get it out. MoTDC works where ZDDP fails and that's at high temps. Your engine will melt before MoTDC fails. ZDDP was used because it was cheap and wore many hats but new technology has pretty much made it a dinosaur. We now have titanium sulfonates that are even stronger than anything we've ever formulated. So while you're correct that some of the engines from about 1951 to the late 80's were designed with ZDDP in mind, it's not required as the formulators have replaced it with far better technologies. Unfortunately, a lot of folks have bought into the "it has to have ZDDP" and it costs money. Money is the key and the guys supporting these claims are making a lot of it.

Offline Bob Riebe

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Re: Motor oil- what's good, what's not
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2013, 09:04:26 PM »
Thanks for the answer.

I'm gonna tell you a story about how good cars once were, because I can.

I was in college, only fifty miles north of where I grew up but it was a world of difference in winter temp. Where I grew up it had never even hit 30 below but where I was in school the temp. drops to 40 below.
I was driving a '66 Plymouth Fury with the polyspherical 318. I had not changed oil or put stronger anti-freeze in the radiator. I was still running summer set-up.
To much time in the bars, too little doing what used to be automatic.

Well I heard the radio say forty below and I suddenly realized I could be in a world of hurt.
Now this was a car that even with a bad battery, if the engine turned  it would start. Never had one like it before or after, especially after dicking around with 1950 Chevy and six-volt ignition.

I went out to the curb, put the key in, prayed and turned the key. The starter went ER-R-R and she fired up.
I opened the hood, took off the radiator cap and put my finger into a green snow cone.
It took the engine a full half-hour before the temp. needle moved at all.

Went to gas station bought some straight 10, went to a friends garage and and changed oil and put some anti-freeze in the radiator.
That is about the worst I ever had it in the frigid North, with the exception of when we used to get a lot of deep snow, regularly, I had old fashioned bias knobby snow tires on.
I lived on top of a steep hill. I got about half way up the hill and stopped, so I let it roll down and tried again. Same thing. This was before they salted the crap out everything and the town was only one third as big as it is now.
Well I had to get up that hill. I was not going to park the car and wait till a plow came, so, this time I turned the car around, got about a half-block running start and backed that car as fast as it would go right up that hill.

Damn I miss that car. She got a minimum of 18 mpg till the day she died of cancer.
I replace it with a '66 Dodge with the "modern"  318.
I got on my knees and thanked God when that on got 16 mpg with a tail-wind.