Author Topic: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?  (Read 15687 times)

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Offline scootrd

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Read a great article discussing

 - The Great Depression
 - The Great Compression
 - The Great Divergence

Economists Larry Mishel and David Autor recently debated the topic why America has received the most significant increase in income inequality in our country's History. 

Mishel's position on why we have arrived to the point where we are started when politicians from both parties began to think of America as a nation of consumers, not of workers. President Jimmy Carter deregulated the airline, trucking and railroad industries in order to help lower consumer prices. Congress chose to ignore organized labor’s call for laws strengthening union protections. Ever since, Mishel said, each administration and Congress have made choices — expanding trade, deregulating finance and weakening welfare — that helped the rich and hurt everyone else. Inequality didn’t just happen, Mishel argued. The government created it.       

David Autor's position is technological change is the contributor for the rise of income inequality. Computers, Autor says, are fundamentally different. Conveyor belts and massive steel furnaces made blue-collar workers comparatively wealthier and hurt more highly skilled crafts­people, like blacksmiths and master carpenters, whose talents were disrupted by mass production. The computer revolution, however, displaced millions of workers from clerical and production occupations, forcing them to compete in lower-paying jobs in the retail, fast-food and home health sectors. Meanwhile, computers and the Internet disproportionately helped people like doctors, engineers and bankers in information-intensive jobs. Inequality was merely a side effect of the digital revolution, Autor said; it didn’t begin and end in Washington.       

Who is right ? who is wrong?

Frank Levy, the M.I.T. labor economist who hasn’t fully committed to any one particular view has suggested seeing how inequality has played out in other countries.

In Germany, for example the average worker might make less than an American, but the government has established an impressive apprenticeship system to keep blue-collar workers’ skills competitive. For decades, the Finnish government has offered free education all the way through college. It may have led to high taxes, but many believe it also turned a fairly poor fishing economy into a high-income, technological nation. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has carefully studied the relationship between inequality and growth. The fastest-growing industrialized economies (South Korea, Estonia and Poland) have remarkably low inequality. A few low-growth countries (notably Mexico and Turkey) have high inequality. The rest of the world is all over the place, with no obvious connection between a country’s level of inequality and its economic growth.Yet the scattershot nature of the data does provide some guidance. Inequality has risen almost everywhere, which, Levy says, means that Autor is right that inequality is not just a result of American-government decisions.

But the fact that inequality has risen unusually quickly in the United States suggests that government does have an impact. Still, economists certainly cannot tell us which policy is the right one. What do we value more: growth or fairness? That’s a value judgment Levy states .... And for better or worse, it’s up to us.

I'm of the opinion neither is right nor wrong as both positions (Deregulation . Too big to fail , tax policies , and Technological advances)  are all major contributors to America's wage and income inequality disparities. The solution (IMHO) True Tax reform is but one important change needed to help right our listing ship. 

So what are your opinions?
What do you believe are  contributing factors?.
What solutions would you propose?

Semper Fi



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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 06:36:31 AM »
There is plenty of money to be made in America.


Unfortunately it is not to be made by those who are not bright enough or motivated enough. Sending a chicken to college will not make an engineer of it. Some people are motivated enough to eat sleep and on occasional get themselves drunk, and not a bit more.


At one time you could feed, clothe, and shelter, your family if you were willing to throw hot slabs of iron into a box all day, a machine does that now. You could find a job picking produce or some other farm labor, a machine does that now. You could work in a factory, they pollute too much and now Chinese do that. Sorry but your limited skills are no longer in demand. To argue it is some ones fault is wrong. It just is a bad time to be unskilled and rather simple minded. A strong back is no longer a substitute for a strong mind.


It is not a nice thing to say about a person that there is no need for them in an economy, but what is to be done? Right now those who can afford to are supporting them as if they were ones children, through the welfare system. It could be argued that paying more for made at home textiles, steel, produce, paying to not pump gas, might be the better solution. ( that is sorta where this is headed as far as wage erosion goes ) Simple labor in the US must be able to compete with simple labor in Bangladesh. Giving the aforementioned chicken a CAD CAM machine will do no one any good. Neither the chicken nor the employer benefit. All three are wasting each others abilities.


The poor will always be among us. Welfare and dignity are tough things to balance against the sweat and compensation of anothers labor.
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Offline 351 power

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 08:04:27 AM »
community and companionship. every nation needs to balance the wants and needs of it's citizens. for the benefit of the community at large. because face it, you don't want to have the companions in your community to be so desperate that they resort to crime or welfare for income. you will always have a percentage that prefers crime or sloth. but you encourage those aspects when you ignore the imbalance. and i am not talking about taxing to provide handouts. if i had 1 thing i thought could begin to balance the fortunes of the big community it would be an overhaul of the stock exchange. that system has become so artificial and market controlling that it has stifled natural evolution of small private business and forced big business to operate without conscience.
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 08:50:48 AM »
In a nutshell, there's more and more inequality because the 'system' is set up for inequality and that's the way the owners like it and maintain it. If they didn't want inequality normalized and people scurrying around in the rat race than the system would be set up for equality instead.

So what are your opinions? - TM7 Given in initial reply
What do you believe are  contributing factors?. - TM7 Given in initial reply
What solutions would you propose?  - ?
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 09:13:34 AM »
EQ:
 
Right on, man! No one has said it better. Great post!

Offline jimster

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2013, 11:03:28 AM »
I agree with EQ...count me in on the plain fact that people are not all equal, they never were equal and never will be. Therefore everyone won't make the same amount of money, or have the same skills, and to be blunt, not everyone tries as hard as others, that has to be the deciding factor regardless of the government fouling up the works and making everything harder or not. TM7 is right about government making it almost impossible for American people and fouling up our entire monetary system, but I guess you just have to work twice as hard and budget twice as much and have more motivation to fight that. We all are not equal, and we all do not have the same skills, and all skills do not pay the same. Add motivation to that and you have a situation where none of us are equal. I don't think you can make us all equal without creating a heap of other problems, and lord knows we have enough already to cope with.


 

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2013, 11:09:13 AM »
Re: Inequality in America  - How we arrived where we are  / whats your opinion


MY  OPINION.....i just don't care


like EQ  said


The poor will always be among us. Welfare and dignity are tough things to balance against the sweat and compensation of anothers labor.


and  the rest of what he said




and will add


just because some one is tremendously successfull
doesn't  diminish what others  have


THE POOR TODAY  ARE FAR BETTER OFF THAN THE RICH  2 GENERATIONS  AGO
YET THEY  WHINE AND ARE UNHAPPY

when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2013, 03:26:47 PM »
Somehow this thread has morphed into The poor, the lazy , welfare etc..

The thread was created to discuss root causes as to why the income equality gap has widened so rapidly at an accelerated pace over the last decade  more than any other times in our history. ie; Technology advancements, Tax reform disparities,  education? deregulation? globalization?

Since 1979 top 1 percent has seen a rapid rise of 281% while highest 5th only 95% , middle 5th only 25% , and bottom 5th 16% .  What has changed to account for this rapid change.







"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2013, 03:40:15 PM »
In a system where money can be made by capitalizing and running a business, a wealthy man will do so unless:  the risk is too great, the cost is too high.  When he perceives the risk too great, he will simply invest his money in something he does feel is safer and not risk it.
 
When the government controls every aspect of a business, and exacts extreme penalties from them, while favoring other business' they like, (GE), we have the exact scenario we do today.
 
Some go offshore, some withdraw from risk.
 
Fewer business', fewer jobs, lower wages, and private capital remaining in some secure investment.
 
Thus, the rich get richer.
 
Ben
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2013, 03:54:25 PM »
The inequety is due to government.
Higher taxes only help the uber wealthy.  As they keep people from entering markets and reducing capital making people with money in hand needed more nad they can demand more for those dollars.
More regulations hurt the consumer and the worker.  More rgulations add to costs and force jobs over seas.
Higher tarrifs only hurt the consumer - Tarrifs tend to raise all prices not just the imports.
Unions are no longer there to help the worker, the unions are there to feed the union leadership. 
Regulation and government impact are causign the costs of building to be equal to the cost of the building.  How many union jobs can we have for putting up new Apartments, condos, offices, and retail if the building costs twice as much because government has it's hand out to be paid off  to approve your building.
 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 04:21:43 PM »
Technologically advanced jobs have somehow favored the technologically advanced. Those who have a lot of capitol to invest have done so mostly to their advantage. The stupid and the poor somehow have not been able to take advantage of this new reality. What is so hard to understand?


If you want to have a job making rubber dogshit move to China, if you want to manufacture heavy equipment move to China, if you want to assemble delicate electronics, move to China. Are you seeing a pattern developing? Those in powerful places told us we were going to be a service economy, they were not bullshitting.


The world playing field is being leveled. The top of the heap comes off first to fill in the ditches. The US worker is being used as landfill in the third world labor dump.


Either you want a world economy or you don't. Those who want it are the ones who can afford to make it happen. As we try to reinvent ourselves as the new Euro / Sino America, we are trading what made us unique. There is no good reason to be an American company or investor or citizen for that matter.


I have said it many times. If I wanted to live in Europe I would get on a plane and go there. Bringing their problems / solutions here has done us no favors
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 04:29:51 PM »
They earn more because there is someone willing to pay them more for what they do. It is so small minded to call these people the top one percent of earners. They are, in fact, the top eigthy five percent of employers, job creators, innovators, entrepeneurs, top flight professionals, and risk takers.


And guess what? A lot of them do not even consider using US labor today because of all the hassles related to it. Bad attitudes and shoddy work by US workers, and an uncompetitive business environment have alienated an entire generation of businessmen.


Try taking those graphs from the fall of the Roman Eempire to today and you will see some gaps that are a helluva lot bigger.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 04:57:28 PM »
Scooter your graph illustrates what happens when a low skilled low income worker loses his employment. The unskilled job market was shipped over seas. The skilled labor tended to stay employed but perhaps underemployed. Finally the Most skilled stayed at or about where they were all along.


I would contend that it is more a problem of the top staying the same and the bottom slipping, rather than the top out growing the bottom.


Faulting the top wage earners for maintaining there growth is absurd. Where else could mediocrity be be held up as the gold standard. 
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2013, 05:09:19 PM »
Scooter your graph illustrates what happens when a low skilled low income worker loses his employment. The unskilled job market was shipped over seas. The skilled labor tended to stay employed but perhaps underemployed. Finally the Most skilled stayed at or about where they were all along.


I would contend that it is more a problem of the top staying the same and the bottom slipping, rather than the top out growing the bottom.


Faulting the top wage earners for maintaining there growth is absurd. Where else could mediocrity be be held up as the gold standard.
Poeple stay employed as long as they are profitable to the company.
If you are paying some one $20 an hour for work and that work is only gernerating $15 an hour in gross profit you do not need that person or you need to only pay them $10 an hour for that same work. 

Offline scootrd

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2013, 05:39:29 PM »
The inequety is due to government.
Higher taxes only help the uber wealthy.  As they keep people from entering markets and reducing capital making people with money in hand needed more nad they can demand more for those dollars.
More regulations hurt the consumer and the worker.  More rgulations add to costs and force jobs over seas.
Higher tarrifs only hurt the consumer - Tarrifs tend to raise all prices not just the imports.
Unions are no longer there to help the worker, the unions are there to feed the union leadership. 
Regulation and government impact are causign the costs of building to be equal to the cost of the building.  How many union jobs can we have for putting up new Apartments, condos, offices, and retail if the building costs twice as much because government has it's hand out to be paid off  to approve your building.
 

I find the graphs interesting as during the period of 1993 -2000 . corporate tax rates were higher , There was more wall street oversight and regulation , There was stronger union presence, yet the income equality gap spiked during the period of 2002 -2007 when corporate tax rates were lowered, wall street regulations were eased, and union membership was in decline.

House hold income has also remained relatively flat since 1979 for 90% 

I wonder if there has been an inordinate sharp increase in consumer staples and energy sector costs during 2002-2007 as well.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 07:54:07 PM »
The inequety is due to government.
Higher taxes only help the uber wealthy.  As they keep people from entering markets and reducing capital making people with money in hand needed more nad they can demand more for those dollars.
More regulations hurt the consumer and the worker.  More rgulations add to costs and force jobs over seas.
Higher tarrifs only hurt the consumer - Tarrifs tend to raise all prices not just the imports.
Unions are no longer there to help the worker, the unions are there to feed the union leadership. 
Regulation and government impact are causign the costs of building to be equal to the cost of the building.  How many union jobs can we have for putting up new Apartments, condos, offices, and retail if the building costs twice as much because government has it's hand out to be paid off  to approve your building.
 

I find the graphs interesting as during the period of 1993 -2000 . corporate tax rates were higher , There was more wall street oversight and regulation , There was stronger union presence, yet the income equality gap spiked during the period of 2002 -2007 when corporate tax rates were lowered, wall street regulations were eased, and union membership was in decline.

House hold income has also remained relatively flat since 1979 for 90% 

I wonder if there has been an inordinate sharp increase in consumer staples and energy sector costs during 2002-2007 as well.
But from 1993 to 2000 we had the tech bubble that caused higher incomes. Causing a surplus in govt revenue.  the surplus and the added incomes of nevo rich had items of wants being purchased and trickel down economics took effect generating more incomes as peopel spent.
also in 2002 when the bush tax cuts took effect we had states like CA increase their taxes to offset the tax cut with a net increase and when 1/7th of the US economy raises taxes you have a problem.
Also as this President went on a crazy spending spree without a budget and talking about raising taxes again and again it has curbed spending and consumer confidence.  as we have huge budget deficites we know that somehow someone is going to have to pay for it and people are saving and not spending waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I wish the Republicans had taken the tax issue and offered to cut taxes on what Obama calls the middle class and generate some purchasing generating sales of want items. 
 

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Offline 351 power

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 01:17:52 AM »
empty quiver, your point in #11 post really got me. you mentioned that the us is changing what made you unique. great point. from my perspective, i live in canada, the most unique characteristic for america has always been unity. and now i don't see that. so many divisions and special interests. others may have a better understanding of it than me. is that how you see the identity issue?
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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 01:31:28 AM »
If you notice by your charts.  Reagans policies were working.  The so called Free Trade Agreements first with Mexico, then in 1998 with China, resulted in the gutting of our factories.  From my area alone, we lost about 4,000 textile jobs after 1998.  These jobs AVERAGED $15/hour back then.  Begininers and easier jobs paid less, but other jobs paid more.  Two people making $15/hour could supply a family here with a home, two cars without any government assistance, and with health care.  Ross Perot had it right, the giant sucking sound.  Also in 1998 the deregulation of the banks causing the bank bubble bursting 10 years later. 
 
Both were caused by government meddling.  We had a Dem pres and a Rep congress and both agreed to all of the above.  Dems also voted along with these changes. 
 
Like Reagan said, government isn't the solution, it is the problem. 
 
Another thing is excessive government regulation. 

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 03:59:20 AM »
Somehow this thread has morphed into The poor, the lazy , welfare etc..

The thread was created to discuss root causes as to why the income equality gap has widened so rapidly at an accelerated pace over the last decade  more than any other times in our history. ie; Technology advancements, Tax reform disparities,  education? deregulation? globalization?

Since 1979 top 1 percent has seen a rapid rise of 281% while highest 5th only 95% , middle 5th only 25% , and bottom 5th 16% .  What has changed to account for this rapid change.










as you will see from the graphs
every bodies  life  improved


how ever  some will never be happy
if  some improve  more


you cannot lift every one  up
as proven  by  many lottery winners  end up broke
the most you can hope for  is to drag every one down to the same level



when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 05:02:09 AM »



as you will see from the graphs
every bodies  life  improved


You are certainly drawing different interpretations of the graphs than I am.
Everybody's life has not improved. Only the top 1% and above have seen unprecedented rapid increase, and the top 20% marginal increases  in Household income. For the majority over the past decade Household income has stayed predominantly flat and in lower brackets have even declined.

The causality of the widening gap is what is being discussed not the fact that the ever widening gap itself (which is not in dispute by any economist ) exists.
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Offline jhm

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 05:49:16 AM »
     The HARD working people who succed will always succed the ones who are satisfied to with the pay that they recieve or the pay their unions agreed to let them earn in back room deals will only recieve what someone else thinks they are worth, succesfull people are successful because they are never satisfied with what they have earned because they are always wanting to do better for themselves and their family, we have always had the haves and the have nots, but now you have the Govn. telling the have not that they are going to TAKE more from the ones who worked harder, longer and more profitably and give it to the have not, If you are thinking I dont feel sorry for the have nots that sit around watching a flat screen and drinking all day living off the govn. handouts while others go out daily and make a living you are right.  It time that this country gets back to work hard and recieve your just payment, sit on your aes and do without.  Jim

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 09:19:33 AM »
The two most rapid rises were under Clinton and Bush.  You don't carry it out through Obama's first term.  The dotcom bubble under Clinton and the housing bubble under Bush could have caused the rapid rise in money for the rich.  However, other incomes also rose.  However I still stick by the free trade agreements not being fair trade agreements.  Decent paying jobs for workers went overseas which kept the middle and lower classes slower to rise.  Getting the industrial jobs back should be any presidents no. 1 priority.  It also keeps our trade balance in line so money isn't leaving the country faster than coming in.  When I mentioned to many regulations, most have been in the environmental area.  Some regulations are counter productive and are not needed.  Some on banks are needed.  With good jobs back home, health care would not be problem.  Also, if the government helped MARRIED families more than UNMARRIED single parents, we could pull up the middle class.  Married couples have more money, are happier, and the kids are better off and more diciplined.  Single parent kids have more problems and get into more trouble.  Deadbeat dads need to pay.  Ireland and Israel have the lowest divorce rate of the western nations.  Ireland requires counseling before marriage and if a couple wants a divorce requires one year of counseling before it is granted.  This helps with a lot of problems they have.  Also, Jewish families have long talks with the bride and groom before marriage and the families help keep them together. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 09:57:07 AM »
Your "economists' make the usual Keynesian mistakes, thinking more government is the answer to every problem.  Unfortunately, and as a sensible look at history tells us..the more government messes with things, the worse they get.  We saw that in the old soviet Union and it's "central planning"... exactly what the Obamanists are trying to institute.
  These two "scholars" try to point out how, when the US govt refused special priviliges for the portion of workers who joined the union clubs, it was a mistake for our overall economy.  They point out how much more enlightened the Europeans were to cater with special favors for the unions, while we did nothing of the same..    Today, it sure seems as though such moves only helped accelerate the downward slide of the European economy.  Our economy was about to recover in good stride, when the "low information voters" decided to install socialists at the helm of our ship of state..  Things have only gotten worse..and are unlikely to improve so long as the socialist/marxist regime holds sway.
     
  Adam Smith could school these two guys..
 
   There will always be rich & poor..even Jesus told us so..  " You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me"  (Matthew 26:11)
 
  Of course, there will be income divergence..some are fortunate some have a bit tougher row to hoe...but the major factor is finding your niche and working hard and long .  The wealthy people I know have all worked for years ..16-18 hours a day for years.
 
  These economists think government can solve problems...  Let's look at the evidence..
  How has the following government programs worked out?
 
  A)  The US Postal Service.
 
  B) The Infernal ;)  Revenue Service
 
  C) Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac
 
  D) Obamacare
 
  E) Set-asides and quotas
 
  F) Dept of Education
 
 G) The EPA
 
  H) The Dept of Transportation  (DOT)
 
 I) Foreign aid.
 
  J) Various "Peace Accords"..
 
  K) Our participation in the UN..
 
    Yup!  ..The government sure has a great track record , doesn't it!  I could go on ..but there is no point if the "low information" voters STILL don't get it...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline jimster

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 12:05:53 PM »
Quote
Somehow this thread has morphed into The poor, the lazy , welfare etc..
Well, ya Scoot...but because there are a good number of lazy people around, it's the truth, and their numbers are growing. So if there are facts to be considered, you almost have to mention it. The big cities and other areas are packed with people with no motivation, no doubt about it.
When people who work hard for a living are outvoted by people who make a living voting to not work, your bound to have some problems at some point. The takers are draining the makers, add to that our corrupt government, there is no more money to spread around. Or at least nothing we WANT to spread around anymore. I'd like to keep all my own money under these conditions, why waste it funneling it through our government?
Not everyone is equal, and we have to pay for all those people who are not motivated. I really don't want to anymore, I have not been getting a bang for my buck all these year, my taxes were used for campaigns, running guns, abortions, bankrupt green businesses, government growth, and holding up private companies and unions. I don't see what that did for me, except make me work harder and budget more.
 

Offline Shu

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 12:55:56 PM »
The lazy and the government wanting to help them into equality is the problem.
 
My niece had the chance for a nice 4 year college degree, all she had to do was pass 5 classes per term. She would have been paid by the government to attend. Instead she chose to trade one minimum wage job for the next becuase school was hard and ruined her social life. Just another single mother who would rather work minimum wage and recieve aid than get that degree and find a proffession.
 
How many more are out there like that?

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2013, 02:34:56 PM »
The only help for families I was refering to is tax breaks for home ownership, school expense, and a cut favoring married couples over singles.  Some people are lazy.  I know a guy, single, who was laid off.  He collected unemployment for about 92 months.  He only had to look for one job a week.  He only applied for jobs he knew he couldn't get to keep getting unemployment.  About a month or so before it ran out, he found a job at a local factory.  How many others did this?  He actually did some "cash only" work while unemployed.  He just worked the system. 
 
Also, like I said, get the factories back by renegotiating the "free trade agreements".  We can't compete with countries who do not have the child labor laws, 40 hour workweek laws, environmental laws, overtime laws, health care laws, etc. 
 
Another thing is to cut the trade deficit by becoming totally energy independent by allowing more drilling and fracking, offshore, on government lands, in Alaska.  Build pipelines, ease up on some environmental laws until the country can afford them.  Half our trade deficit is energy, cut it out and we keep the money at home providing jobs for middle class families. 
 
With these two things, we can cut our trade deficits out keeping money at home, thus increasing tax revenue, thus paying down the debt. 
 
These problems started under Clinton, continued with Bush and Obama.  Nothings changed, except more regulations, no easing of trade agreements or energy production drastic increases. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2013, 03:07:15 PM »
The present leadership in Washington want to make a huge dependant class!  I guess they figure it will give them "job security".
  There are something like 47% on food stamps..up from some 17% just a few short years ago.  The wife and I are retired..but I still work at a local job .  In recent months we got letters at 2 different times from the govt..telling us we are eligible for food stamps.  Now, I don't know how much a person has to make to be ineligible..but we are quite comfortable without those .."steenking stamps"....and we told them so!
  The latest game seems to be to FORCE children onto govt "welfare" insurance.  They tried it with my son and his wife, concerning his teenaged daughter..they were rejected..  They tried it with my grandson and his wife with their children 5 & 18 months.  My grandson and his wife rejected that charity also.  The people offering seemed surprised that they didn't want any govt "freebies".  What kind of moochers are running around out there these days?. 
  Even though he and his wife make well into 6 figures..the govt toadies kept insisting that they suck up the freebies!
   
 
  Obviously, the liberals are trying to destroy this country... by turning those who are willing... into mushrooms..!
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline scootrd

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2013, 04:30:30 PM »
Your "economists' make the usual Keynesian mistakes, thinking more government is the answer to every problem.  Unfortunately, and as a sensible look at history tells us..the more government messes with things, the worse they get.  We saw that in the old soviet Union and it's "central planning"... exactly what the Obamanists are trying to institute.
 

If your supporting the premise Supply side economics have proven out then I absolutely disagree and so does the historical empirical data the graphs depict.

The supply side trickle down experiment ( general tax cuts and deregulation) has failed miserably. I would suggest that it was one of the initial catalysts that placed our economy on the path towards the recession we are just now beginning to rebound from (WHICH BY THE WAY IS ONLY BEING DONE BY US GOVT SUBSIDIZING US BANKING INSTITUTIONS TO KEEP INTEREST RATES LOW).

 Trickle down economics is one of the major causality contributors for our present days rapidly expanding income disparity gap we are discussing on this thread. That's not opinion , that's fact.

IE:

"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Inequality in America - How we arrived where we are / whats your opinion?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2013, 06:15:47 PM »
In a nutshell, there's more and more inequality because the 'system' is set up for inequality and that's the way the owners like it and maintain it. If they didn't want inequality normalized and people scurrying around in the rat race than the system would be set up for equality instead.

So what are your opinions? - TM7 Given in initial reply
What do you believe are  contributing factors?. - TM7 Given in initial reply
What solutions would you propose?  - ?
.
Scoot....you're going to get a lot of replies here that are in the context of those within the 'matrix'... As EQ said hard work initiative, and perserverance pay off in the system--no argument with these virtues,,,,some get crumbs and some climb and claw to the top...that's the way the owners like it. But as you're aware ...inequality and rewards are less and less nowadays...Your data and charts prove this even though not acknowledeged here.  The situation is worsening; morphing from a Nation and Country of people into a feudal global Military-Industrial-Banking-Intell Corpratocracy....with a lockdown looming/forthcoming. The Nation idea is dead or dying..really a 'sovietizing' the nation is taking place. Make no mistake the owners understand and quide this process..
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Now over the months I and others have mentioned methods of first aid or surgery to correct such sovietizing and corporate dictatorship even though some here like corporatocracy....eg..political and election reforms, a proper healthcare system--not a market, ending fractional reserve banking dictatorship and the King Fed, a proper and fair tax system instead of system of tax avoidence, ending foreign costly wars, proper energy planning and research, infrastructure repair and so on and so forth. BTW, I read that the cost of 11 years of Afghani warfare, 145 bases there, would pay for medicare the next 25 years!!
.
But you see most of the sovietized citizens obey the corporatocracy and submit to it in a Stockhom Syndrome type of slumber wihin a Capitalism vs Socialism dichotomy_ _unwilling to really want or work for fairness and equality, claiming such ideas are too abstract, or happy with their niche.  I can imagine the owners of the system and their governmnet hirlings laughing at this mayhem as citizens struggle against each other while they gain it all.
.
So, the main problem with bringing the USA back to nationhood and a country is the prevalent culture inflicted on the people_ _Its a zeitguiest problem first and foremost...mindthink needs to change.
 
This perhaps explains the problem:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A
.
 
'Those that make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable'....JFK
.
.....TM7
So is it better to knock those at the top down? Is it better than elevating those at the bottom? Is it really impossible to better ones self without hurting someone?


When I take on overtime am I driving someone into poverty? Is the boss offering overtime conspiring to keep someone down?


At what income level will I become responsible for another human being? At what income level should one be considered responsible for themselves? I'm serious here. This sliding scale is becoming hard to track.


Warren buffet has taken me on to raise, as well as most of my family. I find it hard to believe but he expects me to work to earn my keep. How is it when Warren supports me I have to work. But when I support someone they only have to show an EBT card to get along. Now I'm no progressive but that chit does not seem right.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**