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Author Topic: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?  (Read 2075 times)

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Offline ironglow

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If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« on: February 14, 2013, 08:30:05 AM »
  This Dad had to see his boys killed by a "don't give a d _ _ n " drunk driver! 
     http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2277301/Texas-man-David-Barajas-charged-shooting-dead-drunk-driver-killed-sons-age-11-12.html
      If you were on the jury, would you convict?  I sure wouldn't!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 08:42:12 AM »
Since the evidence is not all in then it would be wise to wait. Either we are a nation of laws or we are not. Why is a father using such young children to push a truck in the dark on a public street ? What happened is tragic but not following the law makes no sense when poor parenting judgement could be a factor. Those are my thoughts but it would be hard to convict the father even if it was poor judgement to have the boys pushing the truck as we should expect no one to be driving drunk.
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Offline lakota

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 10:09:18 AM »
I probably would not convict. The drunk assualted this man's family with a car and he paid the price for it. No different than if he had assualted them with a knife or a gun in my opinion. If there were more real consequences to be feared for doing things like driving drunk maybe more people would think twice before doing it.  Now there is one less ass out there to endanger the lives of others and that is a good thing. Its just a damned shame that two kids had to lose their lives before the ass was removed from the gene pool.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2013, 10:15:49 AM »
that's why I would have a hard time , and I am glad the jury would have the last say,
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2013, 01:10:33 PM »
Me, I won't serve on a jury.  Not that I might be made to be, but when they start asking questions to prospective jurors, I'd tell 'em right quick that I've never known an innocent person to be arrested.  I'm sure it's happened, but I have no direct knowledge of it.  Every person I ever arrested, and every person arrested that I had first hand knowledge of, was guilty as sin. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2013, 02:51:35 PM »
I personally don't think it was murder. I think that once the drunk driver realized what he had done he became so overcome with guilt, he borrowed the father's gun and committed suicide. That's what I think happened.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 01:36:30 AM »
or when the father confronted him he mounted an attack and the father feared for his life at the hand of this killer..........
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 02:14:30 AM »
quick read.. sounds to me like someone committed murder.


If the Dad was the one who did the shooting - and the evidence show that? yeah, I'd convict his ass, in a heartbeat.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 02:24:25 AM »
it could have been self defense , the guy had just used his vehicle to kill two people and the father had to defend himself.
 
but then I'm all for personal responsiblity and have no sympathy for drunks . and yea as a matter of fact one hit my son.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 02:40:49 AM »
Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2013, 02:24:25 AM
but then I'm all for personal responsiblity and have no sympathy for drunks . and yea as a matter of fact one hit my son.
1. Did you shoot him in the head and 2. Would you expect to be acquitted of murder charge, for shooting him in the head?
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Offline KIMBER45

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 03:17:22 AM »
Quote from: Mike in Virginia on February 14, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
Me, I won't serve on a jury.  Not that I might be made to be, but when they start asking questions to prospective jurors, I'd tell 'em right quick that I've never known an innocent person to be arrested.  I'm sure it's happened, but I have no direct knowledge of it.  Every person I ever arrested, and every person arrested that I had first hand knowledge of, was guilty as sin.
So you never heard of mistaken identity ?? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/us/lawsuit-in-denver-over-hundreds-of-mistaken-arrests.html?_r=0
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Offline JonnyReb

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 03:22:31 AM »
 I could see convicting the driver of a lesser charge, manslaughter or something similar.  As a nation of laws we can't let emotion govern us. I'll bet the father was ALREADY in a pretty bad mood but now he's compounded an already terrible situation with a bad, heat of the moment decision. I feel for him but some charges are deserved, in my opinion.  J
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Offline ironglow

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 05:00:03 AM »
Quote from: Dee on February 14, 2013, 02:51:35 PM
I personally don't think it was murder. I think that once the drunk driver realized what he had done he became so overcome with guilt, he borrowed the father's gun and committed suicide. That's what I think happened.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  That's for sure..that is probably what happened..most they could charge the dad with would be likely be, "allowing use by an unauthorized operator"..
   In the unlikely possibility that the Dad did shoot the drunk..he probably meant to only shoot the drunk in his A _ _ ;  He can't help it if the drunk already had his head in there! :D
 
   My understanding of the story is that Dad and the boys were pushing the truck..maybe Mom was steering?  Keep in mind, Dad and the boys weren't doing anything illegal..   
     If that drunk had not been on the road..or at least not DRUNK while there..those boys would likely be alive today..
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 05:30:12 AM »
Quote from: yellowtail3 on February 15, 2013, 02:40:49 AM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2013, 02:24:25 AM
but then I'm all for personal responsiblity and have no sympathy for drunks . and yea as a matter of fact one hit my son.
1. Did you shoot him in the head and 2. Would you expect to be acquitted of murder charge, for shooting him in the head?
well that is the delima isn't it ? as a jury member you have the right to by pass a law you don't agree with or one you feel does not apply in the case. This is most likely the grandest gift our fore fathers gave us . Now we can discuss any law , any part of the consitution you wish but the truth is this is how we protect each other. I will be the first to say we are a nation of laws and we need to follow the law but in fact this ablity to find not guilty even if the guy is guilty is the law in America. It is really that simple . When someone is taken to court over an Obama care infraction and the jury finds not guilty it might be the way Americans inject their wish on the law .
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Offline Dee

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 05:41:44 AM »
It was suicide! I'd bet on it!
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 05:50:29 AM »
Quote from: Dee on February 15, 2013, 05:41:44 AM
It was suicide! I'd bet on it!

 
I was told at a very young age messing with a man's ,
wife ,
children,
way he makes his living,
bird dog ,
  and
 shotgun
is suicidal  ;)  maybe not in that order though.........
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Offline FPH

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2013, 05:50:54 AM »
Not on the evidence supplied in the article.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 05:52:46 AM »
you might ask what would a prudent man do as a test . And it seems alot of men would not convict.
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Offline FPH

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 05:53:08 AM »
Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2013, 05:50:29 AM
Quote from: Dee on February 15, 2013, 05:41:44 AM
It was suicide! I'd bet on it!

 
I was told at a very young age messing with a man's ,
wife ,
children,
way he makes his living,
bird dog ,
  and
 shotgun
is suicidal  ;)  maybe not in that order though.........

Don't forget his hat & horse.
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Offline jhm

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 06:10:33 AM »
     I would not convict him, and after it was over I would present him with a life membership to MADD, and send him on his way.  Jim
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 06:16:20 AM »
Quote from: FPH on February 15, 2013, 05:53:08 AM
Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2013, 05:50:29 AM
Quote from: Dee on February 15, 2013, 05:41:44 AM
It was suicide! I'd bet on it!

 
I was told at a very young age messing with a man's ,
wife ,
children,
way he makes his living,
bird dog ,
  and
 shotgun
is suicidal  ;)  maybe not in that order though.........

Don't forget his hat & horse.

Thanks , and PU truck  ;D
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Offline ironglow

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 06:50:55 AM »
Quote from: FPH on February 15, 2013, 05:50:54 AM
Not on the evidence supplied in the article.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx
 
  Yeah; but you know how those leftie "journalists" lie.. ;) ;D .
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Offline lakota

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 07:06:25 AM »
Quote from: KIMBER45 on February 15, 2013, 03:17:22 AM
Quote from: Mike in Virginia on February 14, 2013, 01:10:33 PM
Me, I won't serve on a jury.  Not that I might be made to be, but when they start asking questions to prospective jurors, I'd tell 'em right quick that I've never known an innocent person to be arrested.  I'm sure it's happened, but I have no direct knowledge of it.  Every person I ever arrested, and every person arrested that I had first hand knowledge of, was guilty as sin.
So you never heard of mistaken identity ?? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/us/lawsuit-in-denver-over-hundreds-of-mistaken-arrests.html?_r=0

Maybe I've read him wrong but I'm thinking his statement is just a sarcastic tirade he would employ to get himself tossed from the pool of potential jurors.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 07:48:12 AM »
living  in Va one should know several cases that were very old got over turnned due to the new way DNA can be tested . Some men spent years in prison for the mistake made by police , court and jury.
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Offline Dee

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 01:54:59 PM »
I've made sarcastic jokes regarding this thread topic, but in all seriousness, I cannot imagine watching a damn drunk kill two of my kids, and letting him live right there in real time. I'm sure all you clean living "do gooders" will disagree, and I frankly don't care. I have seen drunks kill innocent folks, AND THEIR KIDDS, and I view them no differently than a man shootin a gun down a crowded street. I've stood on the porch at 3 in the morning and given the bad news to parents that their kid ain't coming home any more, and watched them fall apart on me. Then I had to watch a two dollar lawyer defend that piece of trash, and try and make me, or some other officer, out the bad guy for lockin his sorry ass up.
I had a cousin (ex-cousin in law) get drunk and hit two boys on a motorcycle. Knocked them over a hundred feet, and killed them instantly. He got ten years probation, hates cops, and is 40 years later, a worthless drunk, that still drinks and drives.
It is a well know FACT that drinkin and drivin kills innocents, and anyone that does so any way, deserves the same damn fate as his victims. If it happens to be "on the spot" as this one was, then so be it.
Anyone on this site that has kids that would allow a man to live after killing their kids before their very eyes, is too damn civilized for me to be around.
My kids are grown, and if they were run over like these two babies were, by a no good drunk, I would most likely gut him right there, and judges and lawyers be damned. I might do some time in the calaboose, but he wouldn't be killin anyone else's kids while actin a fool.
Now all you law and order folks can have at it, and we'll see what happens if God forbid it happens to you.
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2013, 12:47:55 PM »
I'd probably find the father guilty, going by the evidence presented in the story, but I would also insist on jury nullification. That makes him technically guilty but he still gets to walk. (I think that was the original logic behind the "self defense" verdict.) Most judges absolutely HATE it when the jury does that, because it makes the judge extraneous, but that is the reason the jury is there in the first place: the court prosecutes according to the law; the jury is supposed to make sure it's justice according to the community.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2013, 02:30:56 PM »
i think the father took the law into his own  hands


i  hope the jury  takes the law into their one hands....as prescibed by law


and  sets the man free.....he has suffered enough


i was recently called for jury duty......sorry  i didn't get picked
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2013, 02:54:00 PM »
I  would  like  to  watch  the  jury  selection  on  this  case, just  to  see  who the  defence  strikeoff  the  list.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2013, 03:11:07 PM »
Quote from: Dee on February 15, 2013, 01:54:59 PM
I've made sarcastic jokes regarding this thread topic, but in all seriousness, I cannot imagine watching a damn drunk kill two of my kids, and letting him live right there in real time. I'm sure all you clean living "do gooders" will disagree, and I frankly don't care. I have seen drunks kill innocent folks, AND THEIR KIDDS, and I view them no differently than a man shootin a gun down a crowded street. I've stood on the porch at 3 in the morning and given the bad news to parents that their kid ain't coming home any more, and watched them fall apart on me. Then I had to watch a two dollar lawyer defend that piece of trash, and try and make me, or some other officer, out the bad guy for lockin his sorry ass up.
I had a cousin (ex-cousin in law) get drunk and hit two boys on a motorcycle. Knocked them over a hundred feet, and killed them instantly. He got ten years probation, hates cops, and is 40 years later, a worthless drunk, that still drinks and drives.
It is a well know FACT that drinkin and drivin kills innocents, and anyone that does so any way, deserves the same damn fate as his victims. If it happens to be "on the spot" as this one was, then so be it.
Anyone on this site that has kids that would allow a man to live after killing their kids before their very eyes, is too damn civilized for me to be around.
My kids are grown, and if they were run over like these two babies were, by a no good drunk, I would most likely gut him right there, and judges and lawyers be damned. I might do some time in the calaboose, but he wouldn't be killin anyone else's kids while actin a fool.
Now all you law and order folks can have at it, and we'll see what happens if God forbid it happens to you.

We have not always agreed on  here Dee, But you are spot on in this situation. I know it is not important to you that I agree with you but I do in this case for sure.
 
To the other posters;
If you think about it this man just witnessed his sons murdered, had it been me I probably would not care what the future brought, or if I was prosecuted. If you dont have sons or daughters you may not comprehend this.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: If you were on the jury, Would you convict?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 05:09:25 PM »
I've got two little girls, whom I love dearly - and I don't think it's right to shoot someone in the head, after a traffic accident... even if one drive was inebriated. Or texting. Or looking the wrong way.


 
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