Pocket Rockets

[Mikey]

Bryan:  I have had experience with the AMT 380 and would advise against it.  That pistol has a safety that will allow the hammer to fall without detonating a cartridge, if you forget to disengage the safety before pulling the trigger.  If that happens you need to recock the piece before it will fire.  But, don't worry about that, you'll be dead before you get the chance.

If you really want a DAO pocket rocket my suggestion is for a lightweight snubbie in 38 spl with 158 - 200grain SWCs.  Any of the hammerless S&Ws or Taurus revolvers should work for you there.  Another suggestion is the Airweight Bodyguard, the S&W Model 38.  Not hammerless but it has a concealed hammer that allows both single and double action shooting and doesn't snag or hangup in the pocket or vest.

Just my 2 cents worth.  This is Mikey.

[leadbutt]

Bryan, if you are just starting out go with a 2" wheel gun and good lead Hollow points, I have to agree with Mickey on this,if your dead set on the semi stay away from the Acc-Tex and the AMT both are junk IMO,the NAA is a great little gun but mine is picky about ammo.
You might want to look at either the East German or Bulgrain Makarov, thery are close in size to SIG/PPKS and are good guns

[Mainspring]

I have to defend my little AMT...it's feelings are hurt.  I have an older Backup model, the single action kind.  I'll conceed that it's not the best design in the world, nor is it match quality in any respect.

It is, however, a pretty darn good belly gun that gets sweat upon a lot in a leather pocket holster, and occasionally fills up with pocket lint.  I haven't had any problems with rust or failure to feed/fire anything that I've put through it, including ball, Hydra-shock, and Golden Saber rounds.  I bought the clunker used about 12 years ago, and still feel that I have a decent, if not good, highly concealable "OH SHEET" piece that I am confident will go BANG when I want it to, and more importantly, with the grip safety AND thumb safety, probably won't go BANG when I DON'T want it to.  It has provided a lot of comfort to me on many a traffic stop.

Is it as good as a hammerless 'Smith?  On most fronts I'd say that it doesn't even come close...however...it will go places (in my clothing) that a wheel gun just plain won't.

If concealability is your ultimate goal, I wouldn't rule out an older AMT single action that has been inspected by a good, disinterested gunsmith.  I can't speak for the newer double action AMTs, as I've never even held one.

[KING]

 I carried a 9mm AMT in my off pocket for about two years prior to retiring.  It is a double action only,and did not have any problems with it,all I had to do is pull it out and pull the trigger.  It is not a  target gun by any stretch of the word,but as a last ditch it did good for me,and was very handy.  I have had some of the guys with the older AMT, and would not really want to use one of them as a last ditch type of weapon,due to hammer malfunctions.  King

[Mikel]

I just bought a Kahr PM9, you might want to check into it. Less than an inch thick, under a pound, 7 rounds of 9mm. I just read an article on it that said it was shooting 1.5" groups at 25 yards.

www.kahr.com

[RollTide]

I love my NAA 32 Guardian.   It thrives on FMJ's and Silvertips.  The trigger is a little stiff, but I consider it an advantage for a pocket pistol.  It has a long DAO stroke.  It definitely is not going to fire on accident.  I have also found it to be center of mass accurate up to 25 yards.  That is about all you can ask of a pocket pistol and about all you need.  I had carried a NAA Mini 22 Mag for years.  Needless to say, I feel significantly better armed with the little 32.  I am getting used to the greater weight of the 32, but I definitely would not want to go any heavier for a pocket pistol.  I was considering a Kel-Tec 32, but they seem to rim lock a lot with anything except FMJ's.  Dale Towert said the 32 FMJ has a 51% One Shot Stop record and the Silvertips have  63%  One Shot Stop record.  The little 32 is roughly equivalent to the 380 and 38 special (in a 2" gun) in "one shot stops."  I feel I would have to go to a hot 9mm or a hot 38 special in a 4" barrel to have any significant increase in protection.

[williamlayton]

i have enjoyed carrying my new s&w 38/357 scadium mdl 340. carry it in my pcker in an uncle mike's. hard to remember it's there and i feel very confident of the performance.
blessings

[Savage]

RollTide,
The rimlock problem you refered to in your post is a result of cartridge design and is not any more likely in the P-32 than the Guardian or Secamp. My wife and I both have  P-32s that have digested about 1500 S&B FPFMJ between them without a single occurance of rimlock. I know several people personally who own various .32s and have never had that problem. I suppose it could happen if you managed to load your magazine with the rim of the top rounds behind the bottom ones.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[RollTide]

Savage,
I am glad for your satisfaction with the P-32.  I like a lot of things about it as opposed to my NAA G32 (P-32 is lighter, flatter, longer barrel, and less recoil due to barrel design)  I have even considered buying one myself even though I already own a NAA G32.  Your endorsement has inched me closer to that decision.  I read the the KEL-TEC Owners Group and they are in general very satified with the P-32 just as you are, but they say that with anything other than FMJ, the P-32 rim locks a lot.  They have come up with ingenius (Flyerwire) fixes for the problem that seem quite effective.  I understand that the problem is so prevalent that Kel-Tec itself has devised a spacer to insert in the mags so they will shoot JHP's more reliably.  Most other 32 makers recommend FMJ ONLY in their guns, and they function fine that way.  Seecamps are specifically designed for Silvertips and function very well with them.  A little known fact is that the guy who had a lot to do with the Seecamp design went to work for NAA and they subsequently produced the Guardian 32.  The Guardian Owner's manual recommends ANY 32 ACP ammo of standard pressure.  Have you found any JHP's that give you the reliability that you get with the S&B FMJ's?

Thanks for the info,

Roll Tide

[Savage]

RollTide,
I neglected to mention a couple hundred Silvertips, a box of Hydra Shocks, and a few Glassers that went thru the tubes without incident. I don't understand why a shorter OAL round would be more prone to rimlock than a longer one as the rounds are seated to the back of the mag anyway. I've still yet to experience the problem with anything I've fired. I carry Silvertips and ball staggered. Both of the P-32s have been 100%.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[RollTide]

Savage
If I understand the situation correctly, it seems that under recoil the rounds in the mag seem to jump and shift and that is when the rim lock occurs with shorter rounds, therefore the fixes that take up extra front to back space in the mag.  I am very encouraged by the record you have.  I might just get a P32 after all.  Maybe it is just an intermitent quality control problem with certain guns.  At any rate, the fixes seem to be simple and very effective.  What kind of accuracy do you generally get with your P32?  I have thought about carrying alternating Silvertips and FMJ's.  What are your reasons for doing so and have you found any drawbacks to that method of carry?  It seems that if you alternate rounds and use a double tap shooting technique, you get the best of both worlds (penetration and expansion), assuming both your shots hit center of mass.  Do they have a 10 round mag for the P32? It seems I saw one somewhere.  Have you used it? Will they function with JHPS?  NAA has just come out with a 10 round mag extension, but right now they are only recommending FMJ's with the 10 round mag.  I am first on the list to get a few when they start shipping.  I hope they work well.  I will carry a 6 round mag in the gun with 2 ten round mags in my weak side rear pocket.

[Savage]

RollTide,
One of the big selling points of the Kel tec other than the locked breech, size/weight, was the ability to feed any type of ammo. Yes there are 10rd mags available from Kel tec, but I have not tried them. I know a few guys who have, and they say they work just fine. When I carry the P-32 I normally don't carry a spare mag. That's because I normally carry it in my weak side rear pocket (in an eyeglass case holster) as a back up to my duty weapon. If I think I might need more ammo, I'll opt for more gun as well. I tuck one of my P-11s in my waistband with 11rds of 9mm. I stagger my rounds because I am concerned more with penetration than expansion. The light .32 bullet may not penetrate well if it expands on muscle or bone. You have a better chance of getting thru to the vitals with the solid. Accuracy-------well it's acceptable. We usually finish up our range session by drawing and firing our pocket guns. Four shots to the head and four to the body as fast as we can pull the trigger at about ten yards. If you are considering a P-32 I'd wait till next month and see how available the P-3AT in .380 is going to be. If they can't keep up with demand the P-32s should be easy to come by. If there is a problem with rimlock out there somewhere, it would be more a magazine problem that that of the gun it's self. Must be rare though, a lot of the guys I shoot with have a .32 for a backup and I have yet to see a rimlock.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[KING]

:-D   For what it is worth guys I have been getting the little CARPATI,model P-95 out of Rumania...in .380 caliber.  Most of our guys want something to carry in thier off pocket.  First round is double action,the rest single.  I was suprised with it,the sites are not much to speak about,....but...I did keep 5 out of 9 rounds in a 2 inch bull at 20 yards with one(from a rest).  Plenty good enough to keep the bg off of your butt.  One of the rookies also got one,and he could keep em all in about 4 inches at same distance.    interesting....stay safe...king :roll:

[Savage]

King,
Have you ever seen "Rimlock" in the .32 auto? Just about all the guys I know and work with carry a .32 or .380 as a weak side backup. I have yet to see it.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[KING]

:shock: Savage......Nope,not yet.  I know several of the guys who are carring the little .32 as you guys were talking about.  Now,im not so sure that I know what this "rim Lock" is that you guys are talking about.  Almost sounds like a double feed problem to me.  I have not had any of the guys using these have any other problems other that some of them are ammunition sensative and you have to find the correct brand that will work properly.  I do not carry a little .32,but I do know that they have changed some minds in arguements of the personal kind.  I mostly stick with a .380 with FMJ ammo.,and an AMT in 9mm  The only other thing that I can think of with them might be a mag. problem that could be changed by pinching the lips a little closer together...sheeesh I hate doing that....Stay safe...King   I will check around this week and see if anyone has had any problems that I did not know about

[sillydog]

Considering an Accu-Tek XL-9mm, NAA .32 / .380. or an AMT Backup .380, or any of the numerous light weight wheel guns on the market.  Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with any or all of the mentioned auto's?  Suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks.

Forgive me if I have overlooked any response which makes mine redundant.

Why DAO?  With so many small revolvers available that can be cocked and fired SA, and small autos with SA capability I wouldn't bother with DAO.  I grant you, the deep concealability of some of those weapons is appealing, but I am not sure the difference is worth the cost in terms of accuracy.

I have a Glock model 26 that is a nice carry piece.  I also have a S&W "lady smith" in .357 5 shot that carrys well.  Recently, I have been experimenting with a .380 Bersa.

Believe it or not, one of the most comfortable carry pieces I have is a springfield officer's model .45.  I have a belt clip installed and it rides well in the small of the back.

I once had an AMT backup in 9mm.  It stunk and made me swear off DAO forever.  No pistol is worth a hoot if you can't practice with it.  After a few shots with the amt my trigger finger would be thumping and I hadn't hit anything either.

[Savage]

I know what you mean about the AMTs. I tried out a .45 AMT Backup years ago that had an eighteen pound trigger. Now very comfortable to shoot, to say the least. The appeal of the DAO in a pocket piston is safety, consistency of pull, rapid second strike capability, and simpliclty of operation. These virtures make it an ideal deep cover carry gun. The .32 & .380 Kel tecs are not true DAO guns. They lack the second strike capability. These little guns are striker fired and use a trigger system simular to a Glock. (Sans the Safe Action feature) What you have then is a 7oz. 7 shot .380 or an 8 shot <7oz .32 with a nice consistant 5# trigger. Thats a combination that's hard to beat for a highly concealable handgun!
Stay Safe,
Savage

[sillydog]

I know what you mean about the AMTs. I tried out a .45 AMT Backup years ago that had an eighteen pound trigger. Now very comfortable to shoot, to say the least. The appeal of the DAO in a pocket piston is safety, consistency of pull, rapid second strike capability, and simpliclty of operation. These virtures make it an ideal deep cover carry gun. The .32 & .380 Kel tecs are not true DAO guns. They lack the second strike capability. These little guns are striker fired and use a trigger system simular to a Glock. (Sans the Safe Action feature) What you have then is a 7oz. 7 shot .380 or an 8 shot <7oz .32 with a nice consistant 5# trigger. Thats a combination that's hard to beat for a highly concealable handgun!
Stay Safe,
Savage

I have looked at a keltec and I agree.  The trigger pull is much more tolerable.  If deep concealment is the necessity, this would be an acceptable compromise...like a day at the beach with nothing on but a pair of swim shorts.

For daily carry, give me the .45.  Or even a single stack 9mm.  I can hit dead on at 25 yards and that's far enough I can get several rounds off before he gets to me running full tilt.