Author Topic: De-milled 60 mm mortar question  (Read 1221 times)

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Offline pitbull_kustomz

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De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« on: February 17, 2013, 04:30:45 AM »
Hello all first off i just joined a short time ago i've been lifting soda cans high in the air for a while out of what i assure you, you would consider sub-sub-standard tubes but i'm looking to do it right and with out having to hide behind a blast shield no joke looking at Cannon Thunder products for near future buy. But my question is could I legally own without registration and purchased on the open market a 60 mm mortar cup IF the firing pin hole has been welded up i would be using it a powder chamber more or less mostly more i reside in Florida and i know of course the ATF has final say but figured i would ask here first (less red tape).. Also i fire all my stuff using an electronic detonator i built from some disposable camera flash circuits (capacitor bank and charge circuit from camera) and i do not see much posted about this method is there a reason why it's definitely cheaper than buying cannon fuse all you need is telephone line to run between you and mortar a single strand of steel wool for ignition and disposable cameras from your local 1-hour photo shop FREE. Keep in mind i am new and have plenty of experience with BP though hunting but not much for firing mortars and cannons at least not the correct way. I look forward to your knowledge and guidance
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 04:52:00 AM »
Since the threaded "cup" is a destructive device, and none of us is qualified to advise you on what constitutes a satisfactory demil for it, you need to be writing to the BATFE in Martinsburg, WV.  People here have done that and have gotten good answers, and one of them will certainly provide the address here soon.

Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 05:02:49 AM »
Thank you, And yes before purchase i will definitely call the BATFE i was just looking for a general idea I have dealt with them in the past in obtaining approval for class 3 firearms which went surprisingly well and believe me i know messing with them or the "gray areas" will surely put you on the losing end THANKFULLY i have not had that problem. But from what i've seen and heard you would rather sandpaper a pole cats butt than go through that ordeal and THANKS AGAIN for the reply
 

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Offline Double D

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 05:52:10 AM »
As John said legal advice is clearly off limits here.  Check the stickies at the top of the board,  They contain the board  rules and the reason for no legal advice. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,105055.0.html

The internet is a pretty poor place to look for legal advice.  Don't depend on the advice here to serve as a defense in court.

If you will go to the stickies link I posted above you will find at the bottom of that post a link to a Stokes mortar post with a copy of the  ATF letter defining the status of these type mortars. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,76866.html

After a long prohibition of this type of mortar on this board, after receipt of the ATF letter, Stokes style mortars meeting the description in the  ATF letter are allowed here. You can find additional  discussion here.  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,244359.msg1099406885.html#msg1099406885

This last post is perhaps the most useful.

Please read if very carefully and do not rely on it as a  legal opinion  granting authority for you to proceed.  Use the letter in the first post as a guide to craft your own letter to ATF. 

Write a letter and get your answer in writing form  ATF and it will serve you as as a positive defense in  Federal Court. 

To be perfectly clear that letter is applicable to Federal law and not State or local laws. so you still need to check those out.

Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 06:45:56 AM »
SWEEEET Awesome source of info and the guidelines to crafting my own letter priceless thank you so much for the reply.. What about the lack of people using remote firing electronic devices such as capacitor banks does it detract from the "Authenticity" or some other reason it just seems easier and cheaper plus no worrying about your fuses getting wet :-)

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Offline Double D

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 07:18:03 AM »
SWEEEET Awesome source of info and the guidelines to crafting my own letter priceless thank you so much for the reply.. What about the lack of people using remote firing electronic devices such as capacitor banks does it detract from the "Authenticity" or some other reason it just seems easier and cheaper plus no worrying about your fuses getting wet :-)

If you can demonstrate, prove and convinced ATF the electronic firing bank is an antique ignition system you should be just fine for them and for posting here.

This board is about Antique black powder cannons and mortars. We have made the exception for the Stokes as long as it uses an antique ignition system.  Authenticity has no part in it.

If you have any information on pre 1899 electric/electronic ignition systems, please share with us.  Electric ignition did exist pre 1899.

Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 08:51:54 AM »
Ahh, I never would have imagined that it was regulated well looks like i have some research to do I certainly do not want to violate any laws in the pursuit of fun thank you for the reply
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Offline a4beltfed2000

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 02:06:36 PM »
While, I hope this does not upset anyone, I do have experience in the m2 60mm DD area, so If ok I can put in my two cents. using the demilled barrel from a mortar kit, would not be well advised, as the barrels have cross bars welded in place along with the firing pin hole welded up and the base cup is welded in place removing the bars inside the tube would be bad. The base cup is considered a title 1 firearm and can be transferred as a regular firearm on a 4473 (yes I have one and this is how it was transferred) however do not own a threaded barrel and a basecup, without registering it on either a form 1 or form 4 prior to possession of BOTH items

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Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 04:09:11 AM »
In only your case and not seeking any legal advice were you able to send in both forms 1 and 4 at the same time and was it a six month wait. I know for a suppressor it was six months in my case almost to the day. With regards to the Moderator if my topic is too close to the Grey area of the forums rules for comfort I will be happy to just move on to another topic I love the forum and have no intention of ruffling any feathers thank you
                                                     
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Offline Double D

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 01:32:28 PM »
Global  Moderator feels you guys are way far afield and out of topic  for this board.  It's up to the Forum moderators to split out and move your off topic posts to the exotic weapons board where this type discussion belongs.

Offline a4beltfed2000

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 02:15:06 PM »
Sure no problem, if someone can kindly redirect us where to go (NICELY PLEASE) ;D we can take this up there, sorry for getting so far off topic....
H&R/NEF 10, 12,16 20 28 ,410 .243 45 357 45lc. 1919a4, uzi, sten mK 2,3,5 M2HB, 1917a1, ak74(2) amd 65, RPK (2) 11 aks and 50 other guns....

Offline Double D

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 02:37:41 PM »
Sure no problem, if someone can kindly redirect us where to go (NICELY PLEASE) ;D we can take this up there, sorry for getting so far off topic....

You throw a great straight line out there like that and ask us to be nice---where is the fun in that.  ;D

Well it looks like the old exotic weapons board is now gone as is the 40 mm grenade gun board.

The closest  your discussion come to is this  board. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/board,43.0.html.  I'm not sure if that one is right.  I do know this board is not the place.  This board  is for antique cannons and mortars.    We have jealously guarded our board over the years to keep this sort of concussion out as we do not want the board to evolve into a Class 3 discussion board and lose antique cannon theme.

If you wish to start a new board for your discussion subject , please check http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?board=3.0 and perhaps place a post there suggesting a board. 






Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 08:20:37 AM »
I can understand wanting to keep it about antique cannons thats what i like about another forum  im on their all about class 3 and thats where i direct my class 3 thoughts i just thought since mine had to do with mortars you're input would be more closely relatable but i have read a great deal on here about mortar builds copies of antique ones as well as beer can and golf ball mortars and i have recently built one and i am looking for opinions on it where can i post about that subject is that here or am i lost please be patient with me as this is my first time posting on this site   thank you
 ( I edited this post of my decision to remove another forums name wasn't sure how that works )

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Offline Double D

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2013, 10:13:25 AM »
I can understand wanting to keep it about antique cannons.

 thats what i like about another forum  im on their all about class 3 and thats where i direct my class 3 thoughts.

 i just thought since mine had to do with mortars you're input would be more closely relatable.

 but i have read a great deal on here about mortar builds copies of antique ones as well as beer can and golf ball mortars and i have recently built one

 and i am looking for opinions on it where can i post about that subject is that here or am i lost

 please be patient with me as this is my first time posting on this site   thank you
 ( I edited this post of my decision to remove another forums name wasn't sure how that works )

You must be typing on one of those smart phones or something because you message was one big giant run on sentence.  I broke it apart so I could read it.

You can post the name of the  Class three forum. Others my find it useful.

It's always a good idea when you first visit a forum to look around for the board rules and learn what the board is about.  Nothing will make you look bad, than making a first post that is way off topic or violates the premise of the board.    Or worse to post a cannon build, of a cannon that so unsafe or ugly as to be offensive.. 

We look at such posts as a personal affront.  Anything that brings discredit on our hobby such as it is, is not looked upon as a good thing.  Some guys don't take kindly to that either. 

We also do not  want to get mixed into the class 3 or DD debate either, particularly given the current political climate.

You may have got the wrong Idea about our board after reading a post last week about Mortars in  WWI.   That post was marginally on topic here and evolved into a discussion primarily about the use of pre 1899 designs.  So the camel stuck his nose under the tent...he just didn't come in.


If you want to build a replica of an antique that shoots golf balls or  pop cans full of cement, you have come to the right place.    Why some of use here even shoot bowling balls.


 

Offline pitbull_kustomz

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2013, 05:15:48 AM »
Thanks for the reply and yes you were correct it was a smartphone well kinda smart... But any who I do enjoy the forum and have a better understanding of the rules and admittedly i should have looked before i leapt. The name of the class 3 forum is SilencerTalk great wealth of all sorts of class 3 info BUT ALL QUESTIONS SHOULD BE RUN BY THE BATFE BEFORE YOU MOVE FORWARD because they will be the ones prosecuting you. Thanks for all the help and patience and a BB mortar is my next project so we'll be a talkin' to each other again soon (With a better understanding of the forums do's and don'ts of course:=)
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Offline Dresden

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2013, 10:28:32 AM »
Any part of an original destructive device still is a destructive device an cannot be used in a shooting gun, that is, the barrel and breech or receiver.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 10:52:14 AM »
Guys if the tube is demilled with the cup welded but usable and attached to a tube with bar welded across the muzzel and hole in presure area it is treated as a rifle reciever.... if the cup is removed and usable it is treated as a rifle reciever...if you stick a 60 mm tube on it it becomes a DD which you must first submit paperwork for and await approval for to stay out of the greybar hotel.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: De-milled 60 mm mortar question
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 11:29:04 AM »
We're getting too far afield from the subject of this forum now so I am locking this thread.
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