Finishing a build - The stock

[AtlLaw]

When I started this I was a little unsure about trying to carve a stock from a blank.     Hi-ebber, and day is always a hi-ebber,  I know a custom gunmaker (rifle builder) who sees nothing wrong with having a stock rough shaped for him.  So I says to myself, "self, who are you to argue with a professional?"
 
And just the basic profiling saves soooooooo much time and effort!  Not to mention cutting the barrel channel and ramrod hole!     Let me tell you, that is NO fun!  So, I got a roughly shaped stock with the barrel channel and ramrod hole already cut.  The barrel channel is pretty good but the rest of the stock looks like it was roughed out with a chipper and table saw!   
 
Oh, BTW, I'll post the pictures when I get home this evening and you can see what I'm talking about. 
 
The stock is comparatively small as would befit one used on a small caliber rifle.  All in all it has nice lines to use as a starting point.  The butt is narrow, just over 1.75 inches wide and the butt plate I have is 1.5 inches wide which makes me think I was considering a "Golden Age" era rifle at the time.  Or maybe I just wanted a narrow butt plate for a smallish rifle!   
 
The wood is curly maple and as I remember a little bit above average grade.  But I guess we'll have to wait 'till I pour the Aqua Fortis to it to find out how good!   

[AtlLaw]

As I said, the barrel channel was cut very well.  Nice and tight and the wood reached up almost exactly half way on the side flats.  Not much work to do there!   
 
I am going to have to do some shaping of the wood on both sides of the breach end of the barrel.  BTW, you can see where I had inlet the first breachplug tang.  I apparently also got a little heavy handed with a chisel in the last inch or so of the barrel channel as shown by the poor wood to metal fit.     Oh well, maybe I'll glass that area... we'll see.
 
The next pic is the length of the forearm.  If you look at the cutter marks in the area around the ramrod entry hole you can see what I mean about being shaped with a table saw!   
 
And finally the lock and butt area.  The whole of this area is shaped by a series of depressions just like it was done with a gouge!      I'm going to have to file/sand the areas where the lock and side plate will go just to get flat surfaces to work with.

Let me tell you, this stock is not finished to anywhere near the extent that the kit rifle stocks I have seen from the TotW or other suppliers are!  But, it's all good!  And it's not a blank!   
 
More as I finish this preliminary stock shaping.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Your not going to pull a sleight of hand on us and substitute a professionally finished stock on us are you?

Just breaking your shoes, it looks like you really have you work cut out for you.  Waiting to see what the final results look like.

[AtlLaw]

...substitute a professionally finished stock...

Well pal, I'm glad to know someone is looking at these threads!     But, is you 'sinuatin my work ain't professional!?      
 
I tell ya though, looking through some of the work done by hobbyists on different forums on the net, there are some real talented folk out there!   
 
I was looking at a New England Fowler yesterday (I really want one build of those!) and I thought it was absolutely perfect!  But some of the other forum members were making suggestions for improvement; all in the light of constructive criticism of course!   
 
I'm kinda hoping I'll get some of that here.  Especially when I get into the final shaping and carving of the stock and engraving of the metal fixtures!
 
Right now I'm taking my time.  I've had these parts for 20 odd years so I ain't gonna get in a hurry now!  Actually I can't...    There are other demands on my time like "honey-do's" and about a dozen other projects I've got in various stages of completion; like a knife to finish (3 actually), a gunbelt to stitch, grips to fit to my '51 Navy conversion...    Oh! and did I tell you I want to build a sail boat?      
 
Anyway, I'm just doing one small thing at a time on this rifle and trying to do it as well as I possibly can, then I'll move on to the next step.  For this thread I'm gonna finish leveling the top of the barrel channel in the breach area and shape the rear of that channel's side wood.  Then I'll flatten the lock side panel in anticipation of inletting the lock.
 
After that I'll check over the lock itself!     But I don't anticipate doing much, if any work to it.
 
So why would I let some "pro" rob me of all this fun and expect to get paid for it!?   
 
 

[OldSchoolRanger]

If you don't mind, I have a question about photo #2, the yellow vise "jaw clamps" that you have holding your stock.  Who makes them, and what specifically are they called?  Where did you purchase it?  I've been looking for something like that, but I can't google it properly because, I can't get the nomenclature correct.  I tried "Vise Jaw Pads" at Midway, and all it gives me are leather pads.

[AtlLaw]

They are a rubber like material that won't mar the wood yet return to their original shape when whatever was clamped is removed.  They also have different size and angle detentions in them to better conform to an objects shape; and they attach magnetically to the vise!   
 
I don't remember where I got then but I'll look and see if they have a brand on them when I get home.

[AtlLaw]

Here ya go OSR!
 
http://www.wiltontools.com/us/manufacturing/en/wilton/product.html?node=25543&product=1994030

[Oldshooter]

Doing that kind of work takes more patience than I can bring to bear. I'll try to keep up with the project as you go.

[AtlLaw]

I dunno OS...    Being an A type personality I have always gone full bore in everything I do.  So I find it relaxing to be able to focus my attention on small details.  Kinda puts me into my "happy place" until I'm jerked back to reality by the loud summons: "honey? ... HONEY!!!"      

[OldSchoolRanger]

Here ya go OSR!
 
http://www.wiltontools.com/us/manufacturing/en/wilton/product.html?node=25543&product=1994030

Richard,

What's that old phrase?  Your an "Officer and a Gentleman".  But then again, I already knew that.    Thanks
OSR

[OldSchoolRanger]

I dunno OS...    Being an A type personality I have always gone full bore in everything I do.  So I find it relaxing to be able to focus my attention on small details.  Kinda puts me into my "happy place" until I'm jerked back to reality by the loud summons: "honey? ... HONEY!!!"      

I know the feeling.  When I get involved in something new, I usually end up with a whole bunch of stuff, I really didn't need.  Then I say to myself, what do I do with this stuff now?

[AtlLaw]

I know how that is!  My new cabinet maker's rasp arrived yesterday and I couldn't wait to try it out!      Just had to see is a "smooth cut" was actually smooth enough for final shaping.   
 
It is!   
 
I may have to get other files but as far as smooth cut rasps go, this one should last me the rest of my life!  And it will reside in the box I keep all my stockmaking stuff in.      

[DDZ]

Good luck with your build. Just keep patience, and take your time.
 You mentioned other web forums for information. I figure you have checked out the muzzleloading forum. Lots of good information there from people that have built lots of guns. A few of the ones I've seen pictures of there, are absolutely gorgeous.
Couple a years ago I decided I wanted to build a custom rifle, but I'm going to get a pre- carve. I did a TC kit before, but that is not really building a rifle. The collection of parts I want is going to cost around a grand, so still savin my money. I've bought a couple of books on building long rifles, in hopes I knowing what I'm doing when I start shaping, drilling, and carving a 300-400 dollar stock.   

[flintlock]

I'd have the build on one thread, not one for stock and one for barrel, etc...
 
You mentioned the barrel was already rusty and polishing before browning...I'd degrease it and brown as is, browning is rust so you have already got a start...
 
The butt plate was the hardest part for me, don't forget to include some cast off when you locate the butt plate...
 
I can't remember if it's a flintlock but if it is, put that touch hole where it is behind the heel of the frizzen so you get fast ignition...If the touch hole is too low it will plug with powder and slow ignition...

[OldSchoolRanger]

Hey AtlLaw,
Maybe flintlock has something there.

I'd have the build on one thread, not one for stock and one for barrel, etc...
 

Maybe you could have one of the mods combine them, but then again, this way you can write more about your adventures in gun building.    And we could spend more time looking for your posts about the different parts of the gun. 

Aw shoot, just keep it this way, so those that don't like stock building can just read about barrel making.  Sort of like turning the page in a P***B** magazine to skip those pictures.  We only read that for the intellectual content in those amazing articles they have in there.

[AtlLaw]

The collection of parts I want is going to cost around a grand, so still savin my money.

True dat!     Parts ain't cheap!     I'm reminded of that ever time I look at the price tag on the parts I already have, bought 20 odd years ago!  For example, the stock I have is marked $75.00!
 
But,unlike modern rifles where everything hangs off the barreled action, in BP rifles the stock is the glue that holds everything together in the proper relationship.  So, you can buy parts in an order that allows you to work on one part, then buy another and work on it and then another part, etc.
 
For example, in the order I'm doing this, I could buy the barrel and breach plug, then the stock, then the lock and so on.  And of course, for each part you'll be buying tools or making jigs or whatever.   
 
I wouldn't wait.  Heck, I'm already thinking of buying a Fowler barrel, or maybe just once recreating a correct Golden Age rifle, or maybe even another Southern Mtn. Rifle... But then, since my favorite period is the F&I War, maybe a French Fusil... 
 
Ain't hobbies grand!   

[AtlLaw]

I'd have the build on one thread, not one for stock and one for barrel, etc...

I thought about that.     But figured it might end up being a pretty long thread, jumping back and forth with regard to topics.  This way, when I return to the barrel to, say dovetail in something, I would resurrect that thread.  Seemed reasonable to me!   
 

I'd degrease it and brown as is,

I thought that's what I said...    But I'd polish it if I decided to rust blue the metal.  Anyway, that's exactly right!     All those rust spots are just a head start!   
 

The butt plate was the hardest part for me,

Me to!
 

don't forget to include some cast off when you locate the butt plate...

Let me get your thoughts on this pal.  I plan to cut the stock with no cast off.     I even considered, since this is a right handed rifle, a bit of cast on!  The reason being is that I lost most of the sight in my right eye last July and I'm trying to learn to shoot left handed...    The cast off would be counter productive in that scenario, but so would cast on if the rifle was ever used by a right handed person...    So I figured neutral is good!  What cha thin?   
 

put that touch hole where it is behind the heel of the frizzen so you get fast ignition...If the touch hole is too low it will plug with powder and slow ignition...

Now, this is my first flinter... I always assumed the percussion ignition was much faster and more reliable.  Over the years I have come to challenge that belief.   
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard a low touch hole kinda sorta makes an ignition path like a fuse.  So if it is put higher the spark lights the charge directly and ignition is faster.  Am I in the ballpark here?   
 
I was thinking centered the touch hole on the top side of a line draw on the barrel at a lever equal to the top of the pan.  Does that sound about right?  Where would you place it?   

[AtlLaw]

Okay, I shaped the breach area and somewhat flattened the lock side.  then I penciled in the bottom of the barrel channel, the web between the barrel and the ramrod hole and the bottom of the ramrod hole.  This will help me position the lock properly... I hope!   
 
Time to put the stock aside for a bit and disassemble the lock to get it ready to inlet!   
 
As you can see, as I'm only doing one little thing ever few days, this will take a while!   

[DDZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard a low touch hole kinda sorta makes an ignition path like a fuse.  So if it is put higher the spark lights the charge directly and ignition is faster.  Am I in the ballpark here?   
 
I was thinking centered the touch hole on the top side of a line draw on the barrel at a lever equal to the top of the pan.  Does that sound about right?  Where would you place it?   

AtlLaw, everything I have read on the subject of where to place the touch hole is exactly as you have stated. Center of pan, and centered with the top of the pan. So you would have half the diameter of the hole above the pan, and half below. Its said that this placement offers the fastest ignition. I guess its the reason professional builders place it there also.   

[flintlock]

When I build a flintlock, the bottom of the touchhole is just about the line drawn across the top of the pan...
 
Here is the reason...The touchholes today are coned from the inside, by putting it above the pan when the frizzen is closed then the touchhole is actually covered by the heel of the frizzen so it cannot be plugged with powder giving the fuse effect...
 
Heat rises, when the sparks hit the powder in the pan the hottest place to be is above the powder...Ignition is instantanious...
 
If you put it down in the pan you have to wait until the powder burns down to it or adjust the amout of prime used...Set it high, above the pan where even if you turn the rifle upside down powder can't get into it...
 
Now, as far as castoff, you can build the rifle for you to shoot if off your left or right shoulder...All you do is locate the butt plate 1/8-3/8 of an inch off the center of the stock, away from your shooting eye...Say you plan to split the difference and go 1/4 inch and you want to shoot the gun off your left shoulder as you mentioned...Mark the comb of the stock dead center from the breach to the end of the butt...Simply measure 1/4 inch to the left and that is where you want the center of the butt to be...
 
By moving it off center, it helps bring the eye to the center of the barrel to look down the sights and also helps the perceived kick less as your cheek bone isn't pressed hard against the stock trying to line up those sights...
 
Make sense?

[AtlLaw]

Now, as far as castoff,

I have agonized over this since I first looked at the stock.     I have always added some cast-off (about a quarter inch) on rifle stocks I've carved on; BP or cartridge rifle.  And it has always worked well for me.
 
Now I'm wondering, since this stock was pre-shaped, maybe they added a bit of cast-off during shaping.     I can't imagine they would have, but I guess I'll run a line and make sure.
 
After reading Flintlock's post I had decided to add a bit of cast-on rather then leave it straight.  Then I started thinking.  This is a right handed rifle.  At my age, It isn't likely I'll be hunting with it for the next 50, um,  25, uh,  10 years...  so I'll do what I normally do with RH guns!  Add a bit of cast-off!     Make a decision and stay with it I says!   
 
Sides, if I can't shoot this one and I don't get my vision back I can always build another rifle!     After I stock my 45-120 and 50-140 Handi's that is!   
 
Yesterday, while sitting in the man cave looking at the stock and lock and thinking, and thinking and looking, I did a couple more things.
 
First I made a pattern of the lock plate and penciled it on the stock's lock flat pretty much in position.  then I marked the position of the sear arm and from that the final postion of the trigger.  This let me measure the length of pull which i marked at 13 and 3/4 inches.  That done I measured the drop at the nose of the comb, and heel at the LOP line.
 
I can work with the dimensions of the stock as cut, but doing this made me realize how much flexibility these precut stocks take away from you.     I would imagine those "fully inlet" stocks are proportioned for the mythical "average" man.      Something to consider...
 
I also did some measuring of the ram rod cutout in the forestock.  The web between the barrel channel and the ramrod channel was a good 16th of an inch, actually pushing an 8th of an inch to thick.  so I started digging through my round files.
 
I couldn't fine the already bent one, however, I did find a new Nicholson of the correct size.  But I can't bring myself to bend the tang of that file so I can use it in the groove.     I'll think of something... 
 
And while I'm thinking, I'll think about doing some more shaping of several areas of the stock.  Maybe not though.     This thing is so close to the final dimensions I may just wait and do it all together after everything is mounted!   
 
Sides, I want to play with the lock.  I got it apart, but I ain't takin bets on getting it back together again!   

[AtlLaw]

FL, I checked the stock last night and it appears that it was cut with, if anything, a little cast-off.  That would seem reasonable as the way the stock is cut there is little room to build in any cast-off or cast-on.   
 
Okay, on to the pics!     The first is the lock side flat with the approximate lock position penciled in.
 
The next pic shows the hi-tech tool I spent countless hours designing and constructing...    I found a piece of an old (hickory) ramrod dowel from another build.  I sanded it down to under 5/16 inch, the size of the ramrod channel, and epoxied in 2 finishing nails to use as handles.
 
The dowel is undersized enough (I hope) to allow me to attach sandpaper to it with rubber cement and end up with a total diameter of 5/16 inch.  Then I can run it up and down the channel until the channel is sanded deep enough.  No worries about getting heavy handed with a rasp and cutting into the barrel channel!   
 
After it is cut deep enough, I decided to go ahead and bring the sides of the ramrod channel down to their final height above the bottom of the channel; just a shade less then half the ramrod's rough diameter.
 
OH!  And I did use the left over epoxy to fill in some of the terrible inletting under the bottom flat of the breach end of the barrel.  I'm afraid it's gonna take more... 

[AtlLaw]

Well, the tool worked fine... if not a little slower then a rasp!
 
That should be all the stock work for now...     Back to the lock.

[SHOOTALL]

nice work ,

[AtlLaw]

I did do one other thing to the stock.  Or at least started to.  I marked a pencil line on the forearm  an eighth of an inch out from the barrel channel and was going to rasp the forarm down to that line.
 
But then I realized I was skipping a few little things that I really should finish 
 
So I built up the area under the breach end of the barrel with a little JB Weld.  That took care of any tendency for the barrel to twist because of the crappy inletting job I did.   
 
Now I need to finish the breach plug so that it is even with the top and bottom flats of the barrel.  And finally, I need to finish the surface of the lock parts to get a nice smooth surface and get rid of those ugly mould lines!
 
THEN I'll rasp down the forearm and inlet the lock!      

[AtlLaw]

During my period of indecision I gave a lot of thought to the shape of the buttstock.  I like a mild "Roman Nose" and the blank could easily be carved into one.  You may be able to see that in the photo comparing the blank with my rifle #2 which I kept for my own hunting rifle.
 
If I were to ever attempt another PA longrifle it would most likely be styled after ones made in Lehigh County 'cause I like those gracefull curves so much.
 
But, after studying the plans mentioned in the "musings" thread, this rifle will have an Armstrong silhouette!  All indecision is now... GONE!!   

[Stuart C.]

Gonna look great. I like that graceful curve too but agree sometimes you gotta shake it up.  


We're gonna need more pictures, so break time is over,lets get crackin.

[AtlLaw]

break time is over,lets get crackin.

But I been sick!   
 
I know I'm feeling better though because last night I was sitting in the man cave while Kathie was out with the girls.  I got up and walked over to the workbench where the stock was in the vise, picked up a rasp and started shaping the forend. I just about finished bringing the right side of the lower and upper forend down to 1/8th of an inch before Kathie got home and the intercom started buzzing.     Wimmins HATE to see a man relaxing!   
 
OH! And let me told you sumpin!  My old (coarse) rasp will remove wood in a hurry, but that new Nicholson #50 smooth cut is GREAT!     I decided that after rough rasping I'll finish removing wood to the line with the #50 then go right to sandpaper for the final finish!
 
And speaking of finishing, Soon I'll do the left side of the forend, then the sideplate area and I'll be ready to inlet the lock.

[AtlLaw]

Today I finished rasping and sanding down the side panel and forend.  The whole forend is now 1/8 inch thick, but the upper forend will be taken down to 1/16 inch later.
 
I'll post a pic later on 'cause it will show what I mean, but this pre-shaped stock is a pain!     The gouged out basic rifle outline makes it really hard to accurately draw my reference lines.  So far there's enough wood to get the shape I want, but in some instances just barely!
 
If I ever do another rifle the stock will be fashioned from a blank.

[AtlLaw]

Here are pics of the left and right side of the stock.  Both sides have been brought down to the same thickness so you can easily see how much more wood was on one side then the other.