Author Topic: .45-70 cast bullet load question (Read 985 times)

Sierra Sherpa · « **on:** February 18, 2013, 08:17:59 PM »

Howdy all,

I just bought a box of these: http://www.shop.snscasting.com/45-70-405-GR-RNFP-45-70-405-GR-RNFP-250.htm. Was wondering if anyone here shoots them in their Handi. Trying to figure out some loads for both plinking and deer hunting. I mostly shoot jacketed stuff, mainly Hornady 300-grainers. Bought a can of SR 4759 for lighter cast loads and was hoping others here could steer me to some general, accurate load data still using smokeless; I have IMR 3031 and 4198, Varget, H322, RL7 and 15. My Handi wears a 1.25-4.5X 30mm scope. Appreciate any input.

Do I need to clean the gun differently from shooting cast? Also plan on trying the bullets in my Uberti Highwall (30" brl. w/Marble tang sight) and the "plinker" loads will be shared with my buddy's H&R Trapdoor (Officer's Model, I think) and its steel buttplate. Thanks again.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:58:48 PM »

from the link, I can't determine the diameter they are sized to, but if they are not 0.002+ over groove diameter, they may lead.

more so if they are hard cast, as most commercial ones are, to keep the damage from shipping down.

also, the lube is not always up to snuff.

first off, what did your bore slug out to?
Perhaps make an impact cast of your chamber.
go from there.
My Handi 45/70's slug out at 0.4555/0.4595, so the usual suspects of commercial bullets won't do well for me.

as for cleaning? as long as accuracy is there, I never clean. I only clean if there is a reason to.

a proper fitting cast bullet, with a good lube, shot with a decent load could shoot a long time and never need cleaning.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:00:17 AM »

oh, and it usually helps to clean ALL traces of copper from your bore before shooting cast.

sometimes it doesn't matter, other times it leads like crazy, and accuracy is hard to get.

Grumpybear · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:32:25 AM »

What nanuk said is important, bore dia. is very important. If the bullet is loose it will lead like crazy and not fly straight.

Slug the bore then deciede what dia, bullet you need, .002 over bore size is a good starting place. I was lucky with mine, both handis the 45/70 and the BC are .456 and the shikari is .457 so I size to .458 for now, may up it later to see if it makes a diferance.

For plinking consider trail boss, its a low velo round and lower recoil, good for all day shooting. I've loaded varget and 3031 under 300gr and 350gr lead with good results but the recoil can get away from you in a hurry.

A starting load of varget under a 500 gr postell will wake you up. Quess how I know.

$:-\$

Grumpy

rfd · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2013, 03:37:31 AM »

makes no sense to advertise lead bullets for sale without specifying their diameter. for me, it's critical to know what the bullet was sized to - without that, you could be loading undersized lead and that's not good in the long run. ymmv.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2013, 04:43:58 AM »

Forget what the box/bag says for size, too, ya gotta mic. 'em to know for sure.
Your bullet dia needs to comfortably fit into the mouth of a fully fire-formed to your chamber (fired in your gun) case. If it does not fill as much of the critical throat, before even getting to the rifling, you will likely have accuracy and leading issues. Start with this fit and you dont even need to slug the bore unless you have problems.
You powder choice will work fine. When looking for data, be aware there are 3 levels of such for 45-70s. You want to stay in Level One, suitable for the 'Trapdoor' Springfields.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2013, 05:08:36 AM »

what Gcrank1 said!

unfortunately, you have to buy bullets to try that first. slugging costs only a bit of lead, that you can get for cheap.

perhaps, someone close to you can send you some bullets, sized 0.001 up from 0.457 to say, 0.462, perhaps 3 each, and you can see which one fits the once fired case best, as per gcrank1's suggestion.

this would help before you buy a bunch of bullets you can't use!

hoytcanon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2013, 05:35:33 AM »

Just take your fired brass into your LGS and try some bullets in them... Bring your calipers with you... When you find a good fit, buy a box to thank the owner for his consideration... My local shop let's me get away with all kinds of crap, because of the business I bring him... I make sure that I am respectful of the fact that he is running a business and I send other shooters to his shop to spend money also.

rfd · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2013, 05:57:38 AM »

Quote from: hoytcanon on February 19, 2013, 05:35:33 AM

Just take your fired brass into your LGS and try some bullets in them... Bring your calipers with you... When you find a good fit, buy a box to thank the owner for his consideration... My local shop let's me get away with all kinds of crap, because of the business I bring him... I make sure that I am respectful of the fact that he is running a business and I send other shooters to his shop to spend money also.

+1

brad925 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2013, 06:40:10 AM »

I shoot a Lee 405gr HB bullet that has been modified to a flat base in my BC. I shoot them as cast at .460 dia. They shoot just fine. I tried sized at .457 using the Lee sizer and it pattern like a shotgun. Shoot em as cast if you can. Sizing will throw the bullet out of balance.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2013, 08:22:49 AM »

Thanks guys. I thought I knew a little about reloading but it sounds like cast lead is in a whole 'nother league. I've always loaded whatever jacketed bullets were out there and never had a problem. In fact, they all shoot quite well from my guns. Don't even know how to slug my bore, sorry.

The bullets are sized to .459, as is my quantity of 305-gr. cast lead Bear Crk. Supply slugs. I have some 405-gr. cast Bonus Bullets that are sized to .458". The latter two I've mostly shelved while shooting the jacketed Hornadys. Jeez, this all sounds like black magic.

Well, it sounds like I got the horse behind the cart since I already bought the bullets. It's raining right now here in Central CA. I'll make a few sample reloads and see what happens the next time I get out to the range. Appreciate your input.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2013, 11:30:41 AM »

Ive had good luck with .459s in mine with up to 100% TB, so give 'em a go. .458s might be iffy, so a .460-.462ish base wad might help right from the start.

twoshooter · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2013, 01:07:46 PM »

Most of your powder choices look fine. Both IMR4198 and RL7 also are excellent choices for cast loads in the 30-40 gr range. It is not rocket science, shoot some, if they shoot- OK, if not- do some experimenting. Unless you are jacking the loads up you should not have leading with low pressure loads anyway, unless they are pure lead or not lubed.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:22:34 PM »

Quote from: hoytcanon on February 19, 2013, 05:35:33 AM

Just take your fired brass into your LGS and try some bullets in them... Bring your calipers with you... When you find a good fit, buy a box to thank the owner for his consideration... My local shop let's me get away with all kinds of crap, because of the business I bring him... I make sure that I am respectful of the fact that he is running a business and I send other shooters to his shop to spend money also.

sometimes I wonder why I can't think of easy things like that!

What a great idea!

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2013, 03:47:06 PM »

I have a hundred reloaded rounds of jacketed Hornady 300-grainers with various concoctions of different powders awaiting range work in order to narrow down the best suitable powders, of the ones I mentioned earlier, for the bullets.

In another plastic case sit 100 brass empties, sized and primed, that were to be filled with the selected powder-bullet combo that gave the best 100-yd. groups. I guess I'll load up a few samples of my new cast 405-grainers in a batch of available empties and see what works. Glad to hear my powders are good ones. The stuff I'd read on SR 4759 also makes me hopeful my cast slugs will perform well at the low-to-middling velocities.

Do you all have any cleaning solvent/technique favorites?

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2013, 05:35:09 PM »

For smokeless stuff I use almost exclusively my own simplified version of 'Ed's Red; 1 part odorless mineral spirits to 2 parts ATF.

OOPS-correction: Its 2 pts MS to 1 pt ATF for general use; 50-50 is OK too but a little too 'oily' I thought.

hoytcanon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2013, 05:57:10 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on February 19, 2013, 05:35:09 PM

For smokeless stuff I use almost exclusively my own simplified version of 'Ed's Red; 1 part odorless mineral spirits to 2 parts ATF.

Does that make 3 parts W.T.F???

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:40:19 PM »

Thought ATF was another one of them helpful gubmint agencies.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2013, 04:48:00 AM »

HA! Yous guys r 2 mch!
Automatic Transmission Fluid, any kind is fine, and even Marvel Mystery Oil will be good Im quite sure. BUT, I got my proportions backward, its 2 pts. MS to 1 pt ATF for general use.
As to the W.T.F., I ain't goin' there.........

hoytcanon · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2013, 08:23:13 AM »

Ah... Soooo... Thanks for the clarification; you turned left and I went right...