RCBS chargemaster combo / Hornady L-N-L auto charge

[nodlenor]

Other than cost, how do these compare with each other? Can someone give me some pros and cons of each?

[KansasPaul]

I own the LNL auto charge unit. I have no experience with the RCBS combo.

So, I bought my LNL because it was in my budget.  It works well MOST of the time - I say most, because at times I have to re-calibrate the unit because it will begin to through consistent over-charge weights.  The unit is also super sensitive to movement so it has to be placed an a really sturdy bench or table.  Some other things to consider:
- you have to have it plugged in for at least 15 minutes before using
- spherical powders work great and meter accurately and quickly.
- extruded powders are more tricky and I have found that I must use the "normal" speed or it will throw over weight charges.
- the unit has three dispensing speeds; slow, normal, fast

Overall I'm happy with the dispenser and it has certainly increased my reloading speed for rifle calibers.  If I had the extra money available, to do it over again I would likely go with the RCBS unit - within the last year I have only been purchasing RCBS reloading tools as I think the quality is better than many others I have either owned or looked at.

There are a few You Tube videos regarding both units - do a search and check out the units in action.

Blessings

Paul

[nodlenor]

Thanks, Paul. I was leaning toward the RCBS but wanted some input from someone with some experience with either or both.
I have a Pact eletronic scale and it has to warm up for at least 15 min. before it is used. I'm guessing that is normal with most of them.
I too, like RCBS equipment. I've had a Rock Chucker for nearly 30 years and it still works as good as new.

[rmagill]

I've got the rcbs chargemaster system that I use for specialty stuff. Other than it's a bit of a pain to calibrate every time I want to use it, it's pretty darned impressive. I actually probably dont use it enough to justify what it cost, but it beats measuring by hand and I could never stand using tricklers.

[DANNY-L]

Here's some good info on the hornady auto charge.Like many I had lots of trouble with overthrows on certain powders.... even on slow mode. I found that hornady has posted info on line on ez reprograming of when the unit shifts from fast discharge to trickle...you can also adjust trickle speed.
You can find the info if you go to hornadys website....look up the dispenser...when you get to the product page there will be a "downloads" tab...click on that for ez instructions on how to do it.
Works very well now.

[quickdtoo]

The RCBS is programable too.  Midsouth still has the best price I could find. Dunno where the Hornady is made, but the RCBS is made in china and has a 1yr warranty for the original purchaser unlike the lifetime warranty on most all of their other products.

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004498923

http://www.rcbs.com/general/warranty/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/speed-up-your-rcbs-chargemaster/

http://www.thenpha.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=11302

December 24, 2008
TECH TIP: How to Speed Up Your RCBS ChargeMaster 1500
Filed under: Reloading, Tech Tip — Editor @ 11 am
The RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 electronic powder scale and dispenser is the most popular product of its kind on the market. In our original Electronic Powder Dispenser Comparison Test, the ChargeMaster normally dispensed most kinds of powder faster than competitive units from Lyman and PACT. However, after the initial release of the ChargeMaster 1500, RCBS “tweaked” the software a bit to achieve more consistent charge-throws. This slowed down the process somewhat. Some owners have wanted to speed up their ChargeMaster. This IS possible with a relatively simple reprogramming. Most of the internal parameters of the Chargemaster can be modified, under guidance from the tech staff at RCBS.

Gunsmith and Forum member NAT Lambeth reports: “I thought My RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Combo was fast enough. But I still called RCBS and asked for the programing changes to see if I could speed it up. It was a lot easier than I thought. My 1500 Combo was taking from 15-30 seconds to dispense the powder to the tenth of a grain. I reprogrammed the numbers and now it takes between 7 and 15 seconds to dispense to a tenth. This effectively doubled my loading speed. I only changed the HSB_A1, HSB_B1, and BSP_C1 settings.”

Key ChargeMaster Parameters with Default Settings
HSB_A1 (15.68) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed
HSB_B1 (3.42) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed
BSP_C1 (1.08) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed

Nat cautions that you should talk to a RCBS tech before attempting to re-program your ChargeMaster: “You will benefit from talking to the RCBS tech. I have now gone back and played with the numbers a couple of times. (The numbers given to me by the tech at RCBS were still a little conservative.) I think each machine may have its own likes and dislikes. If you get too aggresive with lowering your numbers it will over-throw your intended load.“

Source for ALL the Parameters
There is an extensive discussion of RCBS ChargeMaster programming on the South Africa Hunting Rifle Shooting Assn. (SAJSV) Forum. In this SAJSV Forum ARTICLE, Jaco Brink lists virtually all the programming codes. Importantly, Jaco also provides the default values for various parameters. This is very important, because the ChargeMaster does not have a “return to default” option. Once you change any value, if you want to return to the original value you must enter it manually. Jaco cautions: “I have to advise you to only make changes to your scale if you are confident to do so, and remember that there is not a ‘return to default’ setting in the scale. If all else fails return your scale to the default settings [I have listed].”

CLICK HERE for list of RCBS ChargeMaster Default Programming Values [See the next article from the SAJ Hunting Rifle Site.]

Use a McDonald’s Straw to Reduce “Over-Throws”
Jaco Brink provided another useful tip to avoid “over-throws” (excess charge weight): “The RCBS employee advised me to take a McDonnell’s straw (because it is thicker than a normal straw), cut off about a half inch piece and put it into the tube where the powder exits. This caused the last part of an extruded powder to clutter less, and reduced the amount of overthrows dramatically.”

CLICK HERE for more ChargeMaster 1500 optimization TIPS. [See the last article pasted below.]

SAJ Hunting Rifle Article:

Improve your RCBS Charegemaster scale 2007/11/07 02:34 Karma: 41
A while ago the friend of mine phoned me regarding his RCBS Chargemaster combo scale. Up to then I have not taken much notice of my own scale, but he informed me that his scale was charging extremely slow. I timed mine and found that mine was running a lot faster then his. This set me on a journey to find out why there was a difference. The outcome however was that his scale was defective, but it gave us insightfull information about the working of these scales.

After doing some research on the internet I was able to determine that these little green scales are fully re-programmable. I sent an e-mail to RCBS on which I received no reply, and eventually telephoned them. They were very helpful and gave me their instructions on how to change the programming on this scale.

This has made a tremendous difference in my reloading experience with this scale. The scale is fully adjustable and there are many settings and that you can change. To enter the program mode pres EDIT MEM and ENTER at the same time. After making an adjustment pres ENTER to go to the next option. After the last setting the scale will reset and countdown. If you passed a setting you have to start from the beginning, there is no back button.

This is the list of settings that you can make to your scale, for some of the functions I do not have detailed instructions as to what they do, and would recommend that you do not change them:
HSB_A1 (15.68) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for low weight
HSB_B1 (3.42) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed low weight
BSP_C1 (1.08) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed low weight

MSP_A2 (39.20) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for medium weight
MSP_B2 (8.55) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed medium weight
MSP_C2 (2.25) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed medium weight

SSP_A3 (196.00) Grains under target weight to go from full to high speed for heavy weight

SSP_B3 (42.75) Grains under target weight to go from high to slow speed heavy weight
SSP_C3 (11.32) Grains under target weight to go from slow to final trickle speed heavy weight


SEL (065)
F_A (050) Grains for a Heavy Charge
M_A (035) Grains for a Medium charge
S_A (006) Grains for a slow charge
W_F (200) Rotation for Full speed
W_M (100) Rotation for Medium speed
W_S (036) Rotation for slowest speed

S_F (012) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s fast speed
S_M (024) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s medium speed
S_S (128) Scale sensitivity timeout time in m/s slow speed.

FR1 (040) ?
FS1 (016) ?
FR2 (080) ?
SR1 (032) ?
SS1 (008) ?
SR2 (040) ?
DEC (000) ?
AT (000) ?


I have to advise you to only make changes to your scale if you are confident to do so, and remember that there is not a “return to default” setting in the scale. If all else fails return your scale to the default settings listed above in brackets.
I am now able to throw 56 grains of S365 in less than 18 seconds (average of 15 charges), and with very few overthrows.

Another problem I experienced with the scale was that there were continued overthrows. The RCBS employee advised me to take a McDonnell's straw (because it is thicker than a normal straw), cut off about a half inch piece and put it into the tube where the powder exits. This caused the last part of an extruded powder to clutter less, and reduced the amount of overthrows dramatically.

I hope you have more joy a with your scale now.
If you have any other suggestions or recommendations on how to improve the functionality of this scale please reply on this topic

Post edited by: Jaco Brink, at: 2007/11/07 15:27


And, last, another set of tips for the Chagremaster Combo from the 6BR site:

RCBS ChargeMaster Tips
Trouble-Shooting the RCBS Charge-Master
TECH UPDATE for the RCBS ChargeMaster. In a few short months the RCBS ChargeMaster has become the top-selling digital dispenser on the market. Most people using the RCBS ChargeMaster digital powder dispenser have been very happy with the unit. However, we've heard some reports that, on completing a dispensing cycle, the display shows the load to be the correct target weight, when in fact the unit is off by a one or two tenths of a grain. Since the read-out appears "dead-on", the user doesn't know he has a high or low charge. This is why we advise all ChargeMaster owners to initially check their charge weights with a precision scale of known accuracy. If the unit does not meet spec, RCBS will replace it during the warranty period. However, keep in mind that the unit is rated ± 0.1 grain, which means you can't expect it to deliver the EXACT charge (to the tenth) every time--it may be a tenth high or a tenth low, for a spread of 0.2 grains. A recent ChargeMaster evaluation we've done, with charges checked with a Denver Instruments laboratory scale, did show the unit to be within ± 0.1 grain 95% of the time with H4350, and, with most powders, it delivered the exact charge (to the tenth) over 2/3 of the time.

Still there are things that can improve the unit's consistency. Here are some helpful hints, from Chargemaster owners:

1) Make sure the unit is perfectly level front to rear. Some ChargeMasters, particularly the early-production units, are sensitive to front/rear leveling.

2) Don't leave the power cord coiled up in a loop; this can cause a magnetic field that can affect read-outs.

3) Use the hinged door that covers the dispensing tray. This will eliminate drafts.

4) IMPORTANT--after dispensing a load, pick up the plastic powder cup, swish it gently to distribute the kernels evenly, and place it back on the load cell. This "double-checks" the weight and will catch the vast majority of over-charges.

5) There is a high speed/low speed transition point at 25.0 grains of powder--if your load is right near this point you'll see some fluctuation. You can call RCBS and they can tell you how to modify the high speed/low speed parameters.

6) RCBS can also tell you how to re-program the unit to slow the speed right at the end of the dispensing cycle. This has resulted in greater consistency for some users, who report fewer cases of charges "missing the mark."

7) RCBS now ships the unit with a metal pan that is a bit heavier than the original plastic powder pan. Again, this seems to work a bit better.

Use the factory-supplied check weights to test for calibration with each session; this only takes a few seconds.

9) Use a good surge suppressor, or better yet, plug the ChargeMaster into a line conditioner that provides "clean", correct voltage. A few users told us all their problems disappeared when they plugged the power cord into a line conditioner or UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply).