Author Topic: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball  (Read 1219 times)

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Offline tacotime

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Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« on: February 20, 2013, 03:11:36 PM »
Veral, thanks for the guidance on my Redhawk, lapping complete, with load development underway.
 
In the meantime, I have a stainless Ruger Old Army with the worst tool marks on the lands I have ever seen.  Circular cuts all the way up the 7.5 inch bore.  I have not shot it yet but I can clearly imagine the lands cutting the .457 round ball like a serrated knife. 
 
I am sure you have covered lapping a cap and ball pistol before.  I found a similar post with some basics.  I have your compound.
 
But:
 
Is a conical bullet preferred over the round ball?
 
Should a felt wad be used with a little compound on it?
 
With the wad and the compound, do we then not use any chamber sealer?
 
 
Thanks.

Offline Veral

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 06:41:55 PM »
  Fire lapping is pretty much out with a cap and ball, because the caps will not light up smokeless powder and black must be compressed to get it to light up.  That's too much speed for lapping.

  I would simply polish it out well, following the polishing instructions that came with your lap kit, and see how it shoots with the tooling marks smoothed out so they won't act like a file on your bullets.

  Check the cylinder throats diameters and be sure they are larger than groove, just like for a cartrige gun.  and open them up if undersize.  Alwo polish a radius on the cylinder throat mouths so they don't shave your bullets when you seat them.

  The best bullets to shoot in one of these is my BB, whcih stands for Ball Bullet.  They are a round ball on the front, with a substantial flat to make them hit harder but also allow the bullet to be seated farther out for more powder room,   From the point where a round ball makes contact with the barrel down, pictured as if you had a mall laying on a table, there is a grease groove and bearing band at the base like a standard cast bullets.  There are a few more details which I don't need to mention here, but the advantage is, more weight than a round ball, with about the same powder room and better accuracy, with less leading problems.  I would use straight 4F powder to get some decent speed.  No need to worry about excess pressure.  Those Rugers are made from the same steel as their magnums and with about the same amount of it!
Veral Smith

Offline tacotime

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 04:09:42 AM »
Polishing it is then.
 
Thanks Veral.

Offline cjensen

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 08:21:04 AM »
How about using a conversion cylinder to shoot 45 Colts through it for the lapping?
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Offline cjensen

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 08:29:12 AM »
Veral, what is the weight on your Ball Bullet for the ROA?
Is there a taper at the base to facilitate straight seating in the cylinder?
What is the diameter of your Ball Bullet?
Can these be shot in a 45 Colt?
Carl
My goal in life is to have a carbon footprint the size of Al Gore's. I can be living the good life and know I am not causing global warming. Make Al your carbon standard.

Offline Veral

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2013, 07:15:30 PM »
  Answer to why not use a 45 colt conversion cylinder.   ---  The hammer is made to pop muzzloader caps only, and there is no breech block to hold recoil from cartridges.   In short they are just made entierely different.

 When  making  the BB to fit cap and ball revolvers I cut two drive bands, to slip fit the cylinder without pressure, then a drive band where the drive band on a round ball would hit, which is a couple thousandths larger than the cylinder.  They go in dead straight due to the two slip fit bands, and the front band, being a press fit, holds them in place against recoil.  For cap and ball they should be cast of pure lead if the cylinder throat will not allow bullet bases a bit larger than the barrels groove diameter.   This so the base can slug up and get a good grip going through the gun.  With the single Ruger which I developed these BB's for, bact about 30 years ago,  a 44 by the way. throats were large enough so the base could fill the barrel grooves, so I played some with harder bullets, at around 20 bhn.  They shot very well with a pinch of 4F over the primer cap, then topped off with unique to get slight compression.  About 1200 fps.  I wouldn't do that with any other cap and ball revolver that I've seen. other than the Ruger.

  I have made quite a few for cartridge guns, both rifle and handguns, and when making them, I cut two drive bands large enough that they can be sized to desired diameter, and a grease groove that is filled same as with any cast bullet.  I could cut for gas checks too if one desired but because of their light weight they can endure screaming speeds dressed with a plainbase.  One customer shot them into an inch at 25 yards with a velocity of 1800 fps out of his ruger 44 blackhowk.   But that guy was as much experimenter nut as I am, and most people see no sence in going there with a tiny weight bullet.  They are really at their best when velocity is lower like 1200 fps and lower down to 600 fps if one wanted to shoot that slow, to keep the noise down.  They stabilize almost as easily as a round ball, which being interpreted means a very slow rifling twist will keep them stable.   For cartridge guns, one can use very soft lead for low velocity use  or hard lead, which will tend to be more accurate and definately stand more speed without leading.   The gun I used was borrowed from a neighbor friend, who got the mold for letting me play with his toy.  He killed a black bear with it, by the way.
  I make most with a subtantial falt, if the customer what's them for game and pest shooting, but making the complete ball is no problem.  Just a customer choice.    But when making the choice, keep in mind that a 38 or larger round ball moving at maybe 700 fps, really puts the hurts on small pests, FAST.  So the flat really isn't needed for most shooters.    I don't recall cutting one smaller than 30 caliber, and the most recent one was something over 50 cal, maybe .60, but i don't recall that exactly.
  I wil make them in any diameter asked for, so cannot hope to give a weight, except that they are quite a bit heavier than a round ball.  Perhaps 20% heavier, but thats a guess.
Veral Smith

Offline cjensen

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Re: Lapping a Stainless Ruger Old Army cap and ball
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 07:58:15 AM »
Veral, thanks for the reply.
Carl
My goal in life is to have a carbon footprint the size of Al Gore's. I can be living the good life and know I am not causing global warming. Make Al your carbon standard.