Is the .300 Savage heading towards oblivion?

[336SC]

Mr. Smale,
I for one NEVER said the 300 Savage was as powerful as the 308 Win or the 30-06.  What I did say was that I could not tell the difference between the three chamberings on the deer I have killed with them.  Just for authenticity let's check the difference between the three actual chronographed velocities of my deer loads with 150gr bullets with a BC of .389 and SD of 226.  Let us do a 300 yard comparison when sighted dead on at 200 yards.


300 Savage @ 2700fps, 2.1" high at 100 yards, 9.0" low at 300 yards with 1389ft/lbs of energy remaining.


308 Win @ 2800fps,       1.9" high at 100 yards, 8.3" low at 300 yards with 1508ft/lbs of energy remaining.


30-06 @ 2900fps,           1.7" high at 100 yards, 7.6" low at 300 yards with 1641ft/lbs of energy remaining.


So what do we have?  A huge 0.4" difference in sight setting at 100 yards between the 300 Savage and 30-06.


                                    A bothersome 1.4" difference in drop at 300 yards between the 300 Savage and 30-06.
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[/size]                                    Energy difference is 252ft/lbs in favor of the 30-06.
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[/size]Can the above be improved with different handloads?  Yes, for all three but the above ballistics are from my loads and they were all used by me to kill deer.
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[/size]I defy anyone to be able to hold the 1.4" difference in drop at 300 yards with the average hunting firearm even if using a bench rest and sand bag rest.  Is the energy difference enough to be noticed by the average hunter?  I think not.  The laws of physics require a difference of 300ft/lbs to be reactively noticed.
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[/size]Accuracy?  My Savage Model 99EG shoots my handloads into 9/16" for three shots at 100 yards and my Remington 722 bolt action in 300 Savage is even more accurate.
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[/size]I have never bought into the Magnum Craze, nor do I intend to at this late stage in my life.  The above is just food for thought for those who don't know the capabilities of the 300 Savage or who have no actual experience with it.
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[mannyrock]

 
  Very nice analysis.
 
    A similar result occurs when you compare the .308 with 150 grain bullet to the .270 with a 150 grain bullet.  Everyone talks about how extremely "flat" the .270 shoots, when in reality, out to 300 yards, its only about a eight-tenths of an inch difference.
 
   And the truth of the matter is, that the wind speed and direction of gusts when you fire the shot in the field will always have more of an effect on the bullet path and trajectory than these small amounts of drop, calculated as if fired on a fictional "windless" day, from a sand-bagged bench.
 
     I read several of the Wooters articles growing up, and he was fond of saying that the .300 Savage in a Savage 99, and the .308 Winchester in a good bolt gun, were as good as it gets for all deer hunting.
 
Best, Mannyrock
 
 

[Lloyd Smale]

its easy to manipulate numbers. First the hotest 300 sav loads ive found in loading manuals give the 300 savage about 2550 so to be fair we can call it 2600 not 2700. 308 150 loads go as high as 2950 which is a 150 fps faster then your saying. O6 loads go as high as 3050 agian a 150 fps faster and in the case of the 308 and o6 those levels arent hard to get. Now you can claim the 300 sav in a bolt gun like your classic is probably capable of 2700 but the 06 can be stepped on a bit to in a good gun as its loaded to less pressure then the 270 or 308 in most manuals. But to be real world realistic the 308 is capable of 200 fps more and the 06 is capable of 300 fps more. Then sight them all in at 100 yards at the same 2 inch. You have the 300 sav at 2.1 and the 06 at 1.7.  If you think that 300 fps is nothing consider this. thats the differnce between an 06 and a 300wby with the same weight bullet. In the case of the 308 the differnce is about the same as the differnce between it and the 300 win mag. Im no expert on the hitting power of a 300 sav. To be honest ive never shot a thing with it but im here to tell you a 300wby hits a ton harder then a 3006 and a 300 win mag hits a ton harder then a 308 when your talking 300 yard deer shooting and in both cases there sure is a real world differnce in how easy it is to hit with them way out there not only in bullet drop but wind deflection. One thing people dont keep in mind too is that even if theres only one inch differnce in drop at 300 yards, one inch can sure make the differnce in a quick kill and a tracking job. 3 inches which is more the case in this discussion is a big differnce in real world field shooting at live animals out at 300 yards. Theres nothing personal here so dont take it that way. Im not badmouthing your gun. I think the 300 sav is a great round for alot of deer hunters. Its mild to shoot and has all the snort needed for 250 yard deer shooting but my point was more toward everytime you see a post about a caliber someone jumps in and says it will do anything a bigger round will do and thats just not true. If it was there would never have been a need to develope more calibers after the 3030 was invented. Let the 300 sav stand on its own merits and dont try to make it into something it isnt.

[336SC]

Manipulate numbers?  How do you suppose I manipulated numbers using the BC and actual velocities achieved.  One inch in difference in drop making a difference on a clean kill at 300 yards?  Hogwash.  You just need more practice is all.  Also, some new loading manuals should be on your wish list as 2550fps is no where near the top velocities of the .300 Savage in my loading manuals and I own a dozen or more.  Me believes (as I've seen in many of your posts) you seem to like to argue for the sake of argument and I'm done playing that game with you.
336SC

[spooked]

Don't have a dawg in this fight yet, But I'm watching for an affordable oppertunity to own a .300 savage.
 For me the lure of the .300Savage is ,I believe it to be easy, to shoot well. Sorta like the ole 25-35 i had and the .257 Roberts I presently have...Friends with their .300 win. mags asked me why I like such anemic cartridges..i jist tell 'em " I donna want to kill the deer TO dead". Arthritis is a B...

[mannyrock]

Lloyd,
 
     Interesting analysis.    But, 99% of all deer hunting is probably done at far less than 300 yards.  I prefer to ignore that 1% shot, and just let the deer go.  Not worth it for me to carry a magnum, in Weatherby or otherwise, for such a tiny circumstance. 
 
    I am not sure that I can agree with you that 1 inch of drop makes any difference in killing a deer.  (The vital zone is much much larger than that, so if one inch either way would make a difference, then it was a very poor shot to begin with.)      As I said, the wind and ground temperature will always have a larger impact than that 1 inch.   You may be right in one-in-a-hundred shots, but once again, I don't choose a rifle based on a one in a hundred factor.   In the vast majority of cases, anyone who chooses a magnum rifle for that one factor will be missing or wounding more deer based on the other negative factors it produces, such as totally unnecessary recoil, more expensive ammo, and far less practice with the rifle.
 
  And Lloyd, the bullet is suppose to stay inside the animal after it hits, not pass all of the way through.  The pass through is totally wasted energy.
 
   Best, Mannyrock

[Lloyd Smale]

Manyrock i will be the first to say that for 90 percent of hunters a mag rifle isnt needed. Most dont shoot past 200 yards and if they were honest with themselves sure have no business shooting past 300. Ive shot enough deer at 300 yards to know that it shouldnt be taken causualy. It takes alot of consentration and good trigger control that only can be gotten by practice. A guy that shoots 20 rounds a year sure has no bussiness trying it. Personaly ill argue with you on the energy thing though. Energy doesnt kill deer. Damage from the bullet kills deer. A bullet that goes in say 8 inches and blows up isnt going to kill as well as a bullet that travels all the way though and produces a good wound channel all the way through. Also with a pass through you will certainly have a better blood trail. 336c i just looked on the hodgdons website loading data and the cover imr, hogdon and winchester powders and they dont have a single load with a 150 that breaks 2600 and the I got the velocity figures for the 308 and 06 on at the same place. So id say its a pretty fair comparison. Also ill go back to your 1/2 inch differnce in 100 yard zeros which sure makes a differnce. Id say to be fair were probably talking more like 2-2.5 inch differnce in drop. Still could be argued by some to not make a diffence. But like i said 300 yard shooting takes alot of skill and consentration. If your talking a gun that shoots a 1 inch group at a 100 yards under PERFECT conditions you MIGHT shoot a 3 inch group. Now factor in that your not shooting off a bench so arent near as steady. Factor in that you may have misjudged the distance by 50 yards plus or minus and now on top of that have to compensate for the extra two inches of bullet drop.
 
Say what you want but i do shoot alot of deer at 300-500 yards. Probably more in one year then most do in there lives. I consider myself a fair shot. Ive also had a chance to shoot many differnt calibers and projectiles through the years and have a fair grasp as to whats ideal at certain ranges and what isnt. 300 yards is a fair poke. It takes good equiptment and a good shot. Personaly ill take any advantage i can get when im doing it. That means taking any variable out of the picture i can. Ive come to put range limits on my guns. Non mags like the 308 to me is a 300 yard gun, the 2506, 270, 280, and 06 are also 300 yard guns but under PERFECT conditions and if ive ranged the target i might try 350. After that its magnum territory for this guy. I personaly cant see why someone would even want to go out deer hunt when shots were possible at 300 yards using something like a 300 savage. Its a great round but rounds like that and the 250 sav and 257 roberts (which by the way are a couple of my favorite rounds) get used in regular deer season where a 200 yard shot is about all thats possible. Why push a gun into service when you have something that will do the job better. Id bet if you have so many 300 savages your enough of a gun crank that you have a 270 or 06 in the safe too. As to me arguing just to argue. I have a right just as you do to post my opinion. Theres nothing ive said in any of these posts that isnt true. If you dont agree with me thats fine. I really dont care. As to needing to practice. theres a few on here that know me personaly and will attest that theres not to many people anywhere that shoot as much as i do or have any more experience shooting game under field conditions. I kind of chuckle at guys that are so passionate. Bad mouth there truck or there favorite caliber and youd think you badmouthed there daughter. Funny thing is i never even  badmouthed the 300 sav. I said from the beginning it was a great round for what it is. What it isnt is a flat shooting magnum. Never was, Never will be. At least not without loading it up to the point your toting a bomb around.

[nomosendero]

its easy to manipulate numbers. First the hotest 300 sav loads ive found in loading manuals give the 300 savage about 2550 so to be fair we can call it 2600 not 2700. 308 150 loads go as high as 2950 which is a 150 fps faster then your saying. O6 loads go as high as 3050 agian a 150 fps faster and in the case of the 308 and o6 those levels arent hard to get. Now you can claim the 300 sav in a bolt gun like your classic is probably capable of 2700 but the 06 can be stepped on a bit to in a good gun as its loaded to less pressure then the 270 or 308 in most manuals. But to be real world realistic the 308 is capable of 200 fps more and the 06 is capable of 300 fps more. Then sight them all in at 100 yards at the same 2 inch. You have the 300 sav at 2.1 and the 06 at 1.7.  If you think that 300 fps is nothing consider this. thats the differnce between an 06 and a 300wby with the same weight bullet. In the case of the 308 the differnce is about the same as the differnce between it and the 300 win mag. Im no expert on the hitting power of a 300 sav. To be honest ive never shot a thing with it but im here to tell you a 300wby hits a ton harder then a 3006 and a 300 win mag hits a ton harder then a 308 when your talking 300 yard deer shooting and in both cases there sure is a real world differnce in how easy it is to hit with them way out there not only in bullet drop but wind deflection. One thing people dont keep in mind too is that even if theres only one inch differnce in drop at 300 yards, one inch can sure make the differnce in a quick kill and a tracking job. 3 inches which is more the case in this discussion is a big differnce in real world field shooting at live animals out at 300 yards. Theres nothing personal here so dont take it that way. Im not badmouthing your gun. I think the 300 sav is a great round for alot of deer hunters. Its mild to shoot and has all the snort needed for 250 yard deer shooting but my point was more toward everytime you see a post about a caliber someone jumps in and says it will do anything a bigger round will do and thats just not true. If it was there would never have been a need to develope more calibers after the 3030 was invented. Let the 300 sav stand on its own merits and dont try to make it into something it isnt.

Yes, it is playing with #'s.
It reminds me alot of Jack O'Conner #'s. He would take his best loads in 270 & compares with a watered down factory load in 7RM , in that case the 7RM beats it a little & then he screams that the 270 shoots as flat as a 7RM, which was not true.
Stuff like that is whyI am not an O'Conner fan.
Take your best loads of each & sight the same way and see what happens.
The bottom line is if you like the 300 Savage & it does what you want, then use it.

"Let the 300 Sav stand on it's own merits & don't try to make it into to something it isn't." Yea, why not?

[Siskiyou]

 [font=]I have hunted around the West over the years and a lot in California.  [/font]California offers steep mountains with shots across canyons to up close jump shooting in the same terrain depending on what side of the canyon the buck is. 
[font=]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Alps_Wilderness[/font]
[font=]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Shasta[/font]
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[font=]Lloyd is correct when comparing loads out of the factory box.  [/font]I ran a bunch of old Remington, Federal, and Winchester factory rounds across my Chrony and none of them made 2600 fps out of my 24-inch barrel.  Back in the early 1960’s my middle brother was killing a couple bucks a season with a Savage 99 carbine with a 20-inch barrel.  I would like to have that old 20-inch Savage 99 carbine, but I am afraid it would compromise what I load for the Remington 722.  I did not find loads using IMR8208 XBR powder on the Hodgdon site.  This might be an ideal powder for the 300 Savage but as an old, verging on obsolete the 300 Savage may not be worth the load development cost but Hornady thinks different.  My Accurate Smokeless Powder Loading Guide shows five different loads producing 2665-2765 fps at less than maximum pressure.  These were developed in a 24-inch barrel.  My Remington 722 and my brother’s 760 rifles like the maximum charge for 2015BR powder and 150-grain bullets.  This load produces very tight groups.  Listed pressure is 43,600 CUP in the test barrel.
[font=]I have a few boxes of fresher Peter’s 150-grain SPCL ammunition but I have not sacrificed any to the Chrony.  [/font]
[font=]I have looked at the data on the Hodgdon site and I believe it is proper taking in the consideration of the SAAMI working pressure of 46,000 cup. I suspect this was based on the now 92 year-old Savage 99 action.  [/font]Did Savage improve it metallurgy over the years of production?  The Winchester .308 was introduced in 1952 with a SAAMI working pressure of 52,000 CUP. 
[font=]For years I have used the data from the Hornady Manuals when it comes to loading the 300 Savage and it reaches or exceeds 2600 fps with the 150-grain bullet (2800 fps) and the 165-grain bullet is shown at 2600 fps.  [/font]IMR4064 seems to be the sweet spot with the 300 Savage case.  I have found that 270 Winchester, 7MM Remington Magnum, and the 30-06 factory ammunition does not always come close to advertised velocity when fired across a Chrony so true comparisons are difficult.  I found that there is an average velocity difference in two of my 270 Winchesters of 30 fps.  The deer do not know the difference.
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[font=]Data all over the place in the manuals, before Hornady I used the Lyman 42^nd and Lyman 44^th Edition as my guide.  [/font]I guess that kind of dates me.  I did try the factory duplicate load using IMR4320 but felt it was a little hot.  This was many years before the Chrony and I was happy with IMR4064.
[font=]I try and use 1000 pounds of energy as a cut-off point when hunting.  [/font]Of course there are always exceptions to my rules.  In the days before the handheld range finder I used Topo maps to calculate distance across drainage.  One of my favorite spots had the tailing of an old prospect on the far side of the canyon.  The prospect showed on the USGS Topo map and it was not hard to calculate the distance as being 400 yards.  Over the years I have killed bucks in that drainage from 20 yards to 150 yards.  Admittedly I shot a small cedar tree in front of me when a nice 4x4 ran by at about ten yards, but I did get his buddy.  I have also passed up shots around 400-yards because I rather have a clean kill.  I chose not to carry my 7MM Remington Magnum into this hole in the mountains.  I drop close to 1200 feet in elevation, which means I have to gain that 1200 feet coming out.  According to the tracking on my gps the hunt is close to five miles in distance when I make the loop back to my vehicle.
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[font=] [/font]I passed on a large Mule deer that scored 195 because I was not comfortable with the long shot using a 270 Winchester.  I plan a hunt for the next day and the buck was taken by a hunting partner.  I try and fit the rifle into the hunt. 
[font=]I left the 300 Savage in camp on a hunt in an old burned.  [/font]Country that had heavy vegetation a few years before was opened up by a Forest fire.  We were having a lot of bear encounters and I carried my 30-06 loaded with 165-grain Hornady bullets that were pushed 300 fps faster than the same bullet out of my 300 Savage.  I think the 300 Savage with my loads was adequate for black bear but the burn has opened up the opportunity for long range shooting.  I would not consider the factory loads I fired across the Chrony adequate beyond 300 yards for deer.
[font=]High velocity is not always the answer and there are a few brush fields that I find my 30-30 Marlin to be just right.  [/font]But I admit to buying the Hornady flex-tip loads to gain a few yards.
[font=]I am now looking at downloading the same bullets I load in the 300 Savage and 30-06.  [/font]A granddaughter inherited a 300WM with a 26-inch barrel.  She also got a box of 200 loaded rounds with 165-grain bullets at about 3200 feet per second out of the long tube.  I am thinking of loading a few rounds to 2900 fps to reduce recoil.  I think she is a few hundred rounds from being a long range hunter to take advantage of the high velocity and heavier recoil.
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[font=]I have validated a lot of deer in my days, and looked at bucks hanging in camps and at the butchers.  [/font]A common truth is bullet placement is the key to a clean kill.  A hit in the hams creates a mess, a loss of meat, and normally requires follow-up shots.  I am amazed at the number of deer that are shot in the hams.  I rather pass when the tail is the target presented.
[font=]Again I agree with Lloyd, I want a bullet that produces an exit wound.  [/font]Normally that second hole produces some tracking blood.  By default of age I became the tracker for my deer and my brothers deer.  Bucks shot with the Remington Bronze point and SPCL in the chest would leave some pink foamy blood and disappear into heavy brush and/or roll down a steep hill.  Any extra sign in recovering a deer is welcome.  During my career I attended a couple tracking schools put on by the Border Patrol.  In general deer hunters did better than none hunters in the classes.
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[font=]Hunting with my Dad’s 300 Savage is a sentimental trip into woods, taking game is only part of the journey. [/font]

[Lloyd Smale]

Siskiyou brings up another good point. Velocitys in loading manuals for about any round are optimistic at best. A good example is the 264. I loaded some 140s up to what should have been a bit over 3000 fps occording to two differnt manuals and ran them accross my chrongragh and got 2700 fps. If  you consider there sales tools too and consider that if nosler says there bullet goes 2800 and sierra says theres with the same charge goes 2700 a whole bunch of inexperience loaders will think that they too need that nos bullet. Same goes for loading manuals from powder companys. Look in any hodgdon manual and there 4350 or 4831 will allways give a 100 fps better then imrs versions of the same powder. I use them as a tool to find a good starting load and trust only my chrongraph to tell me how fast that load really goes and to give me an idea what kind of pressures that load is really making. I dont know if the 300 sav is one of the rounds that is way off in the manuals but rounds like the 257 roberts, 264 mag (as a matter of fact many of the mags) and the 06 are notorious for being underloaded and theres rounds like the weatherby mags, the 308 and the short mags that you can get into trouble with just by using the hottest load in a manual.

[Siskiyou]

 Had a Chrony Day at the range.  I tested some existing 300 Savage rounds I have on hand.  I have to admit my expectations were shattered; Lloyd might be right.  I have a favored group of 165-grain loads, divided between Nosler Partition, Hornady SP, and Remington C-L.  The Remington C-L falls number three on my list but number one when it comes to testing because I bought a nice lot years ago.

Found a big variation in results from my August 27, 1996 test.  The test was conduct at 6700 foot elevation at 85-degrees.  I had a few record errors because of the thunderheads building and moving over the mountains.  Wednesday was at 200 foot elevation with a temperature of 64 degrees.

It was a good day for testing.  I first test the Chrony with a 22 rifle to make sure I was lined up correct.  I also marked all the bullets with black felt-tip.  Every round I fired during the day resulted in a record velocity.

Environmental factors must have ganged up on me because my average velocity was close to 110 fps less then I got in 1996.  But the average fell close to the published velocity.  (Okay Lloyd was right.)  I did not want to shoot-up my Hornady 165 softpoints or my 165 Nosler Partitions.  So I will return to the bench and load some Hornady 165-grain for test.  I want to save the stuff in unfired cases.
Next I fired the 150-grain Nosler Ballistic Tips over the Chrony.  I used the maximum load for AA2015 published in their manual.  I exceed their velocity by a few feet.  A number of things could have made the difference but in this case I was using re-sized and necked down 7.62 NATO cases.  The assumption is the capacity of the heavier military case is less and upped the pressure.

I discussed the outcome of this testing with my brother who has a 760 Remington in 300 Savage and has been shooting this load.  He tried a little pay back because I am on his case for hot loads at times in different rifles.  He had the nerve to say I was trying to turn my rifle into a .308.  How disgusting!
I had part of a box of mixed factory ammunition with me.  I did not shoot them up because I wanted to check and see what weights Winchester loaded the Silvertip in for the Savage.  Found they loaded both a 150 and a 180-grain.

[Lloyd Smale]

there is no wrote in black right or wrong here. Im far from a 300 sav expert. Ive loaded probablly less then a 100 of them for my buddy and probably have shot maybe 50 in my life. As long as your statements are based on some good chrono readings ill listen. To many though feel they can just pick velocity readings out of the air or out of a book and quote them as fact. My posts here have probably rasied some hackles on a few guys but it sure wasnt my intention. I guess i have a little problem with people claiming there ___ gun is just as good and just as powerful as a ___ even though it holds 5 grains less powder and is loaded to 10000 psi less pressure. Its the same arguement the short mag fans give (and i own a short mag) More powder means more velocity in ANY gun. Some more then others but allways at least more. Ive also never seen where a bit more velocity or the ability to push a slightly heavier bullet to the same velocity didnt help in the quick humane killing of an animal. Never badmouthed the 300 sav. For what it is its a great little round but it isnt and never will be a 308 or 06. It wont shoot as flat or hit as hard no matter how you load it. No doubt the smaller cases are a bit more effiecient and 30 grians of powder in the 300 sav will push a bullet faster then 30 grains of the same in a 308 but that means little to me. Describing something as effiecent is just flowery words for mediocure performance. Sorry guys but im not trading my silverado in on a prius either.

[Siskiyou]

Lloyd I hope you realize that I support what you say.  With the price of gas I take more then one gun to the range.  It was time to revisit "my" 300 Savage. 
Next to me is a Western Super X box with four 180-grain Silvertips on them.  Data on the back of the box says they produce a velocity of 2370 fps.  The box also contains two REM-UMC rounds with what looks like 180-grain pointed S.P.C.L.  I believe these came to me from a friend that was cleaning up some odds and ends.  This will allow me to collect a little data for reference.  I have some other miscellaneous factory loads that I need to fire and salvage the cases.
I have some other odd 300 Savage factory rounds that I need to fire and salvage cases.  Because I am not sure of bullet weights and performance best to salvage the cases for hunting loads.  I did look-up the published data for the 180-grain pointed C.L. and Remington claims same 2370 fps as Western.
 

[Siskiyou]

 I should recognize my shooting buddy Gun Runner.  A couple years ago he gave me a couple boxes of processed 300 Savage brass.  They had been deprimed, tumbled, and annealed. He might have been the source of the Silvertips.  I know that a hunting partner gave me a few cases last summer and a few factory rounds. 

I was staying at the home of an “old” high school buddy and long time hunting partner and we went into a storage building on his property.  We sorted brass and olds and ends of ammunition.  The 30-40 Krag stuff went to another hunting partner, and I came away with some 300 Savage items, a coffee can of processed G.I. 30-06 cases, and a bunch of 30-30 cases and a box of factory Remington C-L for the 30-30.  Most of these items came from his father who passed away a couple years back. 

I cringed when I heard that another old timer’s son had tossed a few boxes of 300 Savage brass in the garbage because he thought the guns were no longer around.

Gun Runner is a good guy to deal with.

[Siskiyou]

 My 300 Savage seems to like IMR4064 paired with 150 and 165-grain bullets.  This morning target was setup at the 50-yard line.  The goal was to insure that this old load was safe at low elevation.  The round was loaded yesterday, but the load was developed in the 1990’s.
 
Now that I know the load is safe I will fired a few across the Chrony.  This morning’s test was an aside project when at the range with a friend who want to shoot her handgun.  My friend fired a slightly large group with 300 Savage.  And committed that the recoil was not bad.  Not bad information from a small size lady who had never fired a bolt action rifle before today.  This is a full power hunting load.
 

[T.R.]

300 Savage is a keeper!
 
TR
 

[Siskiyou]

Nice buck.  Do you know the year your rifle was manufacture?

[charles p]

A keeper, Yes.  A survivor, NO.
What is it's advantage today?

[Lloyd Smale]

charles to defend it ill say this. Its just cool once in a while to hunt with an old gun and an old round. Just looking at the gun and wondering where its been and what its taken. No its not a 308 and certainly its not an o6 but at 200 yards its just as capable as anything out there and does have some cool factor to it. Even I like to put away the mag rifles once in a while and take out a good lever gun to hunt deer with.

[nomosendero]

300 Savage is a keeper!
 
TR
 

That's a good Buck & nice picture & that pic is worth a thousand words. No need getting too tied up in a discussion about ballistics here. We all know that the 300 Sav. is a little slower than a 308, but in this situation it did not matter at all the gun & round was perfect, that's what it's all about.

[charles p]

As I said, it is a keeper.