Author Topic: My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart  (Read 1079 times)

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Offline Chris

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« on: February 17, 2004, 04:45:22 PM »
Guys:

I don't know a whole lot about center-fires...but, I bought a Series 80 Gold Cup National Match .45 a while back, thinking that it would be all I to get serious about bulleye.  Anyway, I started shooting the gun quite a while back with factory 230g ball ammo.  Since I've owned it, the front sight was lost (replaced), the slide stop broke (replaced) and now the thumb safety seems to have broken free from it's proper postion.  This after ~1500 rounds.

Anyway, I've changed springs and started loading low-velocity wad cutters.  The loads are right out of the book...the slide barely cycles the action.  This seems to have lessened the pounding...but in all sincerity, I thought this gun was "all that and more".

This is depressing.  I haven't had a single problem with any of my match-grade .22's and any of the other center-fires I shoot on a regular basis.  What in the world am I doing wrong?  This can't be normal...right?

Your advice PLEASE.

Thanks guys!   ...Chris    :?
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew

Offline Mikey

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Sorry Gold Cup
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2004, 04:24:30 AM »
Chris - you may have gotten a lemon.  I stopped buying colts a long time ago, after they went belly-up four times and one of the department heads or whoever bragged about not letting a pistol out of his shop with anything less than a 13 lb trigger pull.

With the GC in particular, you have a lighter weight pistol than with the Gov't model.  They have shaved some weight off the slide so the piece will work properly with target loads, which are easier on the piece than the 230 gn ball you have been shooting.

The problems you have experienced can all be fixed.  If the thumb safety is loose, check to see that the slide stop/slide safety spring and ends still move in the housing - that little tube on the left side of the piece that has a spring with two metal ends on it - if that still functions, and if you can dismantle the pistol, check to see that either the slide/thumb safety  or the hammer are not broken.  In either case, both can be replaced.  

If you want to continue to shoot hardball, get some heavier recoil springs from Wolfe.  I had a series 70 Gold Cup that I used to test a high powered wildcat I developed and used the 22 lb recoil spring kit from Wolfe to dampen the recoil.  I didn't experience any of the problems you have.  

If you are not 'happy' with the gun any longer and are concerned about its reliability and function, trade it for some other brand.  Kimbers, Springfields and some of the others shoot better from the factory, are more reliable and are more accurate.  Sorry about those problems but I hth.  Mikey.

Offline Chris

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2004, 05:36:07 PM »
Thanks for the tips Mikey...I just ordered a 22# spring from Wolff.  We'll see what happens.

Thanks again for the help!  ...Chris    :D
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew

Offline JC Blauvelt

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2004, 02:04:18 PM »
Buy some "shock buffs" also. They are frame savers.
JC Blauvelt Gunsmith, Inc.
www.jcbgunsmith.com

Offline tranders

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2004, 10:59:02 PM »
With your reduced target loads you might need a lighter recoil spring to keep it running properly. As far as the shok buffers go they are a good idea as long as your just target shooting and not depending your life on the pistol.There is a slight chance the buffer could split and jam up the slide action.
Good Luck!!

Offline bgjohn

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2004, 02:08:45 AM »
Gentlemen. Watch my lips. The Gold cup was made to shoot light target loads. Not 230 gr hardball. I thought everybody knew that. Talk to your local 1911 gunsmith. Hopefull you haven't beat it up too bad.
JM
I know nothing. I am only a messenger.

Offline Chris

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2004, 06:37:14 PM »
Hmm?

I guess I should let Colt know that on page 5 of the owner's manual, it says to use the heavier spring and 8-round magazine for higher pressure rounds other than semi-wadcutters.  If 230g hardball doesn't qualify, what are they talking about?   :?

...Chris
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew

Offline BamBams

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2004, 07:32:27 PM »
Chris,

Sorry to hear of your troubles with the Colt. I agree with finding a good gunsmith.  EVERYONE needs a good gunsmith.  I also 100% concur with the shock buff and heavier spring idea.  As far as not being made for heavy loads....well, that's not entirely correct.  It might be better said that it's not properly "configured" for heavier loads? As far as the frame, action, slide, etc....generally there is no difference in strength from any other Colt produced during the same timeframe.

The parts you have listed that have failed are all on the 1911 "prone to failure" list anyway -- along with the safety plunger housing, firing pin stop, ejector, and extractor. Depending on the date of manufacture for your pistol, the thumb safety may have been an MIM (Metal Injection Molded) part, and possibly the slide stop also. Just about ALL the big production 1911 makers have started using the MIM process. They say that it creates a more precise part and is cheaper to make, but they don't talk about the sacrifices in durability and strength.  Typical marketing genius' assuming we are all stupid.  Nothing comes for free with a 1911.  Anyway, these are both parts that, as you know, are easily changed out with say, "Wilson" "Bullet Proof" parts.  

I've learned that the first thing to do with a 1911 is find the heaviest spring it will handle (for my load of choice) without malfunctioning and then start using the shock buffs.  The shock buffs also double as the perfect indicator for determining whether or not one's recoil spring is too light, or worn out.   If the "buff" is banged to hell before 1000 rounds have been fired, then it's time for a new spring. The idea here is to tune the pistol to YOUR load of choice.

Was your heavier spring fixed rate, or variable? It can make all the difference in the world with a persnickity 1911. If it was fixed rate,  then go with a variable rate one. It doesn't cost you much to try that.  You've got a better chance of using a more powerful spring this way without any problems. For example, my Kimber Gold Match uses the 21.5 lb variable from Wolff while shooting my 200g LSWC over 4.5g of Bullseye.

Colts indeed made some poor 1911's for awhile - especially when you consider what they charged for them, but nowadays they aren't quite as bad as they were, say, 10 years ago -- that is, if you can live with the quarter pound extra of trigger pull that a "series 80" model will give you over any "series 70" design.  I am fond of saying, "When you pay the extra for a 'series 80.' that is exactly what you get, 'extra.'  If I had a series 80, like you, I'd start looking at my options for disabling the "Swartz Safety" stuff.  "Poor," in the case of 1911s,  is a relative statement though.  In my opinion, just about all the major companies are making "poor" 1911s today, but again, that's from MY perspective, and I compare them all.

I am a person who WILL use a shock-buff in a self-defense pistol, BUT you've also gotta know that I am a cleaning & maintenance nut.  I am also someone who has never had a shock buff fall apart on me in 20+ years of using them in IPSC matches and the like.

Now why would Colt want you to use an 8 round mag with hardball? I have my theory on this, but was wondering if you've considered the reason for it?

I wouldn't give up on your Colt just yet though.  Most probably, you can correct ALL your problems and live happily ever after with it without spending too much more money.  If not, then just sell it, and buy another brand.  Wilson, Les Baer, Kimber are all good choices at the time of this post.  People are starting to experience issues with the Springfields now also, but I won't elaborate to preclude a flame war.  Sometimes, it's better to just buy a $500 1911, send it off to a "good" pistolsmith, and live happily ever after.
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Offline Chris

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2004, 05:06:15 AM »
BamBams:

Thanks for the feedback...good stuff.

I just received a heavier spring from Wolff.  Wilson shock buffs are next...then a trip to the gunsmith to figure out why the plunger tube pulled away from the frame (next to the safety lock).

I haven't given-up on this pistol yet...just needed some good advice from guys who know somthing about 1911's.  I'll know more in a couple of weeks once I get the gun back together.

Oh...one more thing guys.  Do you have a recommendation on the type of grease/lube I should be using on a SS pistol slide of this type?  Seems like a fine grease would be better than an oil.  

Thanks!  ...Chris   :D
"An intellectual is a man who doesn't know how to park a bike!" Spiro Agnew

Offline tranders

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2004, 03:02:17 PM »
I've always used a little Break Free with no problems.I've never used grease. I'm sure someone with more experience will pipe in about grease.

Offline BamBams

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My GOLD CUP is Falling Apart
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2004, 02:45:22 AM »
Quote from: Chris
Oh...one more thing guys.  Do you have a recommendation on the type of grease/lube I should be using on a SS pistol slide of this type?  Seems like a fine grease would be better than an oil.  
Thanks!  ...Chris   :D


Of course...

Here's a combo that I've used for half a decade and always works great for me:

"Rig" gun care products "+P Stainless Steel Lube." It is an amber grease that goes on the rails.  A 2oz jar will last you for a lifetime.  According to the instructions: "Just apply a thin film in the grooves of the slide and frame."



"Break Free" makes a product, called "Lubricant & Preservative for Rapid Fire Automatic and Stainless Firearms."  This is what I use to oil most of the stainless 1911 parts.  It is thicker than their "CLP"  and does not contain any solvents, but what I really like about it is that is doesn't dry up in a week like many of the other oils I've tried.  In fact, I recall a time when my pistol was holstered for over a month and I found it to be still quite wet.  I believe that was when I became "sold" on this oil.

I've been hearing and reading a lot of good things about "FP-10" lately. It's an oil.  I picked up a bottle at the gun shop this morning, and I think I'll give it a try sometime today. I'll let you know.

A small touch of "Gunslick" on the sear tip and hammer notches gives you a nice, pseudo action & trigger job.
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