35 Cal 200gr Hornady Flex Tip

[flinter54]

Well the weather was to nice yesterday to work around the house, so I decided to head off to the range and continue my bullet testing. I have heard that the 200gr Flex Tip was a "Soft bullet" designed to work well in the 35 Remington(2000-2100 fps). Well I loaded it in the .358 Winchester, with a muzzle velocity in the 2450-2500 fps range (Cant wait to break out the Oehler this spring). The bullet was shot into one gallon water jugs at the distance of 10 feet. Weight retention was 63% (126.7gr) it expanded to 62 caliber and expanded down 66% of its total length. Like its RN brother, the core did NOT separate from the jacket. Was really pleased to see this, the "interlock" really does what it is supposed to.


I believe this is a great choice for the 35 Rem, 356 and 358 Winchesters to the extent of each of their range capabilities. As for the Whelen, 350 Rem Mag, and the 358 Norma Mag, I believe short range work would be out of the question on anything larger than whitetail. The velocity created by these cartridges, I feel would stress this bullet beyond its structural capability.


Flinter 54
 

[AtlLaw]

Now THAT'S some good info right there!   

[alan in ga]

Wow that does look like a good bullet for the .358 Win and maybe the .357 Maximum. I've got a Contender 18"  .357 Maximum rifle/barrel, and soon will order a Pac Nor barrel to build a .358 Win. for my bolt rifle.  Had a .358 Win for 12 years until I sold it to an elk hunter from Idaho.
 
I thought I could do without a .358 Win.

I can't.

I'm building another for my Ruger 77 Mark II switch barrel rifle.
:  )

[flinter54]

I really like the 35 caliber cartridges and what they bring to the field. Shot my first deer with my Dads Marlin 336 in 35 Remington using the Rem 200 gr RN. I was 9 that day, and 23 years later I came full circle and purchased my .358 Winchester. I've had it now for 3 years and have never looked back.


I hope you are able to put your 77 MKII together soon. What length barrel will you be using? Regardless, that will be a solid big game rifle.


With regards to the Hornady Flex Tip, it will be a great combination for the 358. Leaving the muzzle at 2500 and zero'd for 200 yards, it will arrive at 300 still traveling just shy of 2000 fps (or roughly the starting muzzle velocity of the 35 Rem with the same bullet). It will also deliver 1700 plus pounds of energy while only being roughly 10 inches low. Not to bad for just a "Timber" gun.


Flinter

[alan in ga]

Since I have access to free barrel fitting machinery I tend to leave barrels 'long', and will leave the new .358 Win at 24". Too easy to cut back to not try it at 24".
I left my .250 Savage AI at 24" also with the intent to 'maybe' cut it back to 22". However it's so nice at 24" that I've left it there and will LEAVE it at 24". I have gunsmith friends, one or two of which are 'old school' and we like rifles to be....RIFLES. I've never had a situation in the thick Georgia deer woods to where I wished for a 2" shorter barrel.....if it's tough to carry a 24" barrel rifle then it's going to be TOUGH to carry a 22" barrel rifle.
That said I like short barrels but ONLY in efficient rounds, such as the .35 Rem, 44 mag [rifle], or .357 Max Contender rifle I have. I wish it were 22" because the rifle is so short anyway but it was the only MGM barrel I could find.
I loved my Ruger 77R in .358 Win and hunted with it for 12 years. The ONE thing I will change in this next one is the barrel contour....it will be more like a 'heavy sporter' or a 'light varmint' weight. I think Ruger missed the boat by not making their 77s in .358 Win by not using the same 'heavier' barrel they always use on their .338 Win Mag 77s. The .358 Win Ruger 77s look like .410 shotguns at the muzzle! Very little steel around that .35 hole!
Once a fan of the .358 Win, always a fan. I'll get the barrel ordered in a few days and 'get on with it'!

[336SC]

Shot a huge doe with one of the 200gr HDY FTX bullets @ 90 yards which started out at 2404fps.  Shot her trotting across a grown over field.  She dropped at the shot, legs went skyward and that was it.  Entered right shoulder and exited left shoulder.  Tore the heart free of the lungs, instant zero blood pressure.  Shot her with my limited edition Remington 7600 pump chambered in .35 Rem.
That 200gr HDY FTX is my most accurate bullet in my three .358 Winchesters.  Shot my deer this year with my custom Remington 700 in .358 Win using the Remington 200gr Pointed Core-lokt @ 2430fps.  That bullet is made for the .350 Rem Mag which I have the 673 Guide Gun in that chambering.  The cannelure is placed for correct loading in the .350 Mag but fits perfectly in the .358 Win as the two cartridges have almost the identical overall loaded lengths.  The bullet worked perfectly on my deer and was a very quick kill.  She went maybe 50ft.

336SC

[flinter54]

Alan,


That sounds like a great opportunity! I would probably go with the 24 inch barrel too. My 358 is a Ruger 77 Hawkeye. It has a very accurate 22 inch barrel. Not sure what the contour is, however it is a heavier weighted barrel than the barrel of my 35 Whelen. (Rem 700 CDL) Well it sounds like your going to have a great rig. What glass are you going to put on top of it? I have a VX III 2.5-8 on mine right now, but that scope will soon be on the Whelen AI. I was thinking of putting a VXIII 1.5-5 on the .358. Keep us posted on your project.


336 How was the wound channel on that doe? Did you have a bunch of bloodshot meat? Was going to try this bullet while culling some doe off a local deer ranch. You say it is the most accurate load in your 358's, what powder are you using? AA2250 seems to really work well in the Hawkeye.


Well you guys have a great day.


Flinter54

[alan in ga]

I started out years ago with 3 Leupold 2x-7x VxIIs. Then I figured I'd 'try' a VxIII and bought 2.5-8X, 6.5-20Xs, and an 8x-24 Vx III in the one inch tube which was discontinued for faulty specs but I had no problem with mine. Finally a NightForce 8x-32x which was too heavy.
Finally figured after hunting a field with 425 yards to the far corner that 8X was PLENTY and I could see and hit any part of a deer being as I looked at so many from my sniper spot in barn.
Now? I LOVE the 2.5x-8x VXIII same as you! Best hunting scope I know of for all around big game hunting. I use a T36 Weaver to "see" what any rifle "can do", and then the Leupold 2.5-8 goes back on for hunting.
I had a Leupold 1x-4x VXII and a Weaver K2.5X on my .458s. Plenty for deer except the Weaver resolution and light transfer left much to desire being a 1970s glass.
I don't know of a better scope for short AND long range than a Leupold 2.5-8, unless you get a good FIXED 4X and forget adjustments of power.....lots of hunters did and do fine with fixed 3x or 4x.

[Dave in WV]

Thanks for the report. I load the FTX in my Rem 660 350 mag. I load it with IMR 4895 down to 2150 fps. It's a very accurate load. 

[JesterGrin]

  I wonder if the FTX will work in the .358 Winchester at full velocity for Elk?  As I am not worried about bullet speed since I am pretty positive that None of the shots for Elk will be close.

[336SC]

flinter54,
The wound channel was extensive, but got very little blood shot meat.  Found one tiny sliver of lead inside the heart and like I said, the heart was separated from the lungs and rolling around on the inside of the chest cavity.  She was not tore up near as much as when shot with a RN HDY or RPCL.  Shot my deer this year with one of my .358 Winchesters shooting the RP Pointed Core Lokt bullet @ 2430 fps.  That bullet is designed for the .350 Rem Mag but worked great even at the decreased velocity of the .358 Win.  I could not get over how quick a kill it was, yet very little jellied mush.  Bullet went in the right shoulder high and exited the left side breaking four ribs and blowing liver chunks out the exit hole.  She went maybe 50' bleeding really well.  I get the best accuracy with the HDT 200gr FTX out of my .358 Winchesters.  Using Ramshot TAC powder, I'm able to achieve 2639fps with the FTX bullet and 2404fps using the big nasty HDY 250gr RN.  That's some major thump going on there!  And at both ends too.
336SC

[flinter54]

Have to admit, I'm a product of my environment. I grew up in a household that had nothing but Leupold on our rifles. This is not a bad thing, as Leupold makes a fine product. With that said, I stepped out and purchased a Weaver Grand Slam 3-12 and put it on my .270. I liked it, it was very clear, but it had no where near the eye relief as any of our Leupolds, so I have returned to my roots. I agree with you, the 2.5-8 for practical purposes, all the scope you will need. I do like the idea of a fixed power scope, however I still want the flexibility of a variable.

As for use on Elk, although I have not had any experience with this round on Elk, I believe this bullet is sturdy enough for that task. Even if the shot is in relatively close quarters, I wouldn't hesitate. Although I may be somewhat picky with regards to the shot angle? One day, I do hope to take an Elk with the .358 Winchester, I'm pretty sure though I will be shooting the 225 Nosler Partition. It's a good combination of weight and velocity, it also has a long track record on big game.

Dave, Have you shot anything with that particular load out of your 350 Rem Mag?

Flinter

[JesterGrin]

Well right now Bullets are kinda scarce lol. And I have a small supply of the Hornady 200 Gr FTX. Other than that I have some Speer 250 Gr Hot-Core of which I feel for distance is a bit too heavy for the .358 Winchester.