Author Topic: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union  (Read 1947 times)

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Offline Gary G

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Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« on: March 03, 2013, 08:00:36 AM »

I would describe this as a political history of America, particularly the Civil War, and how America was transformed into single institution known as the United States. In other words, where America died and the the U.S. as a nation state, no different than any other nation state, began. Some may be interested. Others will continue to believe the version taught in government schools. ;)


http://lewrockwell.com/orig14/livingston1.1.1.html
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 08:29:50 AM »
Good post Gary G, interesting read.
 
Yes as Randy Newman said:
 
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Yes he's free to be put in a cage
In Harlem in New York City
And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
And the West-Side
And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston
They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around

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Offline ironfoot

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 06:47:32 PM »
Lee took full advantage of slaves.
Read this:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2007/06/24/the-private-thoughts-of-robert-e-lee
Here is a quote:
"Lee was considered a hard taskmaster. He also started hiring slaves to other families, sending them away, and breaking up families that had been together on the estate for generations. The slaves resented him, were terrified they would never be freed, and they lost all respect for him. There were many runaways, and at one point several slaves jumped him, claiming they were as free as he. Lee ordered these men to be severely whipped. He also petitioned the court to extend their servitude, but the court ruled against him and Lee did grant them their freedom on Jan. 1, 1863—ironically, the same day that Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation went into effect."

Lincoln was elected on a Republican platform against the expansion of slavery.
Lincoln expressed his anti-slavery views in his Coopers Union speech.:
http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

The South seceded when anti-slavery Lincoln was elected President.

It was a rebellion to perpetuate slavery, and a war to preserve the Union.
 
Some of the seceding states statewd their reasons for seceding.
You can read them here:
http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html
 
South Carolina was the first to secede.
Here is part of it's justification:
"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection."

 
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Offline BAGTIC

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 06:10:51 AM »
"South Carolina was the first to secede.
Here is part of it's justification:
"We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection."

Let's see. The Union's great offense was that it had permitted 'Freedom of Speech", differences of political opinion, expression of religiously motivated ethical dissent. Damn! It is hard to understand how anyone could be expected to tolerate such behavior. Now what of this was done by the USA as opposed to individuals? Did not the Dred Scott decision rightfully uphold the rights of slave owners? Did not the USA call out the Army to suppress John Brown and his terrorists?
They should have counted their blessings that the USA had continued to uphold slavery. If the American Revolution had failed and we had remained part of the British Empire slavery would have been abolished in 1833.

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 04:47:46 AM »
Slavery was BAD. Slavery as practiced in the south was especially bad--- it had never been as oppressive, with chains, beatings, etc., in ANY culture. NO ONE ELSE ever treated other men like that in history. NO ONE. In fact, southern style racism was created and nurtured by the British governors, particularly in Georgia, where the governor lived in fear that the freed indentured whites would start to organize the black slaves, which made up some 95% of the population. What most people don't realize is that until the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, most whites could not vote, either. And Lincoln was no saint--- he used US troops to put down strikes in the sweat shop factories owned by the corpo-communists, who were effectively using slaves themselves. The difference was in the north, the slavers weren't responsible for the slaves' wellbeing. Those big money barons were the people helping to "reconstruct" the south...
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 01:29:44 PM »
I wish Lincoln was here now to see what he did.  I like for him to visit the Chicago slums.  I'd like for him to see the pitiful poverty in South Carolina.  I'd like him to see all the gov't freeby programs and the welfare rip offs supported by our taxes so all the unwed mamas can stay unemployed and keep having babies who will never become anything but an increasing drain.  Most of all, I'd like him to meet Obama.  Lincoln created a cesspool.     

Offline Casull

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 04:46:31 PM »
Quote
NO ONE ELSE ever treated other men like that in history. NO ONE.

 
 
 
 
Don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you say something as asinine as that.   ::)
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Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2013, 02:26:12 AM »
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better. Historically, slavery was serfdom or indenturement. There was not much use of chains because it's hard to work chained together, and chains were expensive in times when everything was made by hand. Those were usually used on prisoners. Serfs and peasants worked for the feudal lords who took almost all of what they produced, but they were not chained. Where were they going to run? To the next lord's estate and work for him? Moses and the Israelites were slaves; they weren't in chains. They were allowed to have their own families, homes, animals, etc. Samson became a prisoner, and a dangerous prisoner, so he was chained. Don't confuse the two. Until the US colonial times, there was never such oppression on such a scale for such a long time. It is shameful to try to justify it just by saying slavery was always going on. It was, but not like that.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline Dee

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 01:03:48 PM »
 ::)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Casull

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 01:50:33 PM »
Quote
Until the US colonial times, there was never such oppression on such a scale for such a long time. It is shameful to try to justify it just by saying slavery was always going on.

 
 
 
BS!   What is shameful is when you disregard historical fact to try to make a point.  I suppose you never heard of the Romans.  They had an entire class of slaves that were placed in an arena and made to fight to the death.  They were called gladiators.  That is but one example of your prior li . . . falsehood.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2013, 03:09:26 PM »
How about the Babylonian empire, the Meado-Persian Empire, THEN the Roman Empire? Did I leave one out? That truly was a silly claim.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ChungDoQuan

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2013, 04:20:20 PM »
They weren't kept in chains and routinely beaten. Even if they did, it does not make it ok to do it here. At ANY point in time, past or present.
If you give up, THEY don't have to win.

"'Cause what they do in Washington, they just take care of number 1. And number 1 ain't you. $__t, you ain't even number 2!" Frank Zappa

The greatest idea the right ever had is personal responsibility; the greatest idea the left ever had is social responsibility. Both take effort.

The Founding Fathers had complete access to the Bible, but they came up with the Constitution as our governing document.

Offline BAGTIC

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 01:02:14 PM »
Keep believing that if it makes you feel better. Historically, slavery was serfdom or indenturement. There was not much use of chains because it's hard to work chained together, and chains were expensive in times when everything was made by hand. Those were usually used on prisoners. Serfs and peasants worked for the feudal lords who took almost all of what they produced, but they were not chained. Where were they going to run? To the next lord's estate and work for him? Moses and the Israelites were slaves; they weren't in chains. They were allowed to have their own families, homes, animals, etc. Samson became a prisoner, and a dangerous prisoner, so he was chained. Don't confuse the two. Until the US colonial times, there was never such oppression on such a scale for such a long time. It is shameful to try to justify it just by saying slavery was always going on. It was, but not like that.
 
Nonsense. New World slavery began with the Spanish and reached it's peak in the Caribbean and Brazil  in the 17th century sugar plantations. Slavery in the US didn't peak until the invention of the cotton gin made it profitable. Men need not be in chains to be slaves any more than a prison detail working outside the penitentiary grounds are still prisoners. Furthermore by  law and tradition of almost all nations those people born in a nation are thereby 'natural born citizens'. Almost all of the slaves in 1860 were native born and deserving of full citizenship.
Quit blaming Lincoln for our black ghettos. Lincoln was not the one responsible for bringing them to our shores nor for breeding them like animals to increase the slaver's herds and profits.  All that has happened since is firmly on the head of the slave owners themselves.

Offline wncchester

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 02:25:40 PM »
"Slavery as practiced in the south was especially bad--- it had never been as oppressive, with chains, beatings, etc., in ANY culture. NO ONE ELSE ever treated other men like that in history. NO ONE."
 
Chung, you're amusing, as usual. It would enlighten you to learn a bit about the slaves who were sent on down to Hati and South America. 
 
Not only did southern slaves rarely see chains they were seldom beaten, owners can't get much production out of ill treated field hands and that was their value.  In general they lived in better conditions than most free subsistance farmers; better housed, fed and medicated.  Slavery was no bed of roses but neither was the lives of most whites. If slaves had been as ill treated as you have been taught there would have been a wild blood bath after the War, as occured against the French in Hati after those slaves revolted.  But it didn't happen here and a LOT of suddenly freed but pennyless blacks owed their lives to the charity of similar near starving whites  after blue coats confuscated livestock and food stuffs all across the south.  In fact, during "Reconstruction", murders, house burnings and rapes against whites and blacks more often came from drunken blue coats than vengeful blacks.
 
There were valid reasons the angriest, bloodiest race riots of the 60s were in the north and black anger up there still percolates over the way hopeful black migrants after mid 1865 were treated.  Nothing in the South equals the still heated black rage in DC, Phillidelphia, Newark, New Yawk, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, et al.  Including California, lotsa blue coats went out there too.
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Offline ironfoot

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Re: Lincoln's Inversion of the American Union
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 04:51:03 PM »
I wish Lincoln was here now to see what he did.  I like for him to visit the Chicago slums.  I'd like for him to see the pitiful poverty in South Carolina.  I'd like him to see all the gov't freeby programs and the welfare rip offs supported by our taxes so all the unwed mamas can stay unemployed and keep having babies who will never become anything but an increasing drain.  Most of all, I'd like him to meet Obama.  Lincoln created a cesspool.     

How can you blame Lincoln for the legacy of slavery, discrimination, the welfare state, etc? Maybe if Lincoln hadn't been murdered by a Southern white supremist, and Lincoln had been able to serve his second term, things would have turned out better.
Act the way you would like to be, and soon you will be the way you act.