Author Topic: A .38-55 Question (Read 1015 times)

petemi · « **on:** March 05, 2013, 05:48:07 AM »

I love my 18 inch .38-55. I call it my Maxi Long Rifle. And, that brought up a question. The .38 grew to the mag and the mag grew to the Maxi. The .45-70 grew to the 90, 110, and 120. Can the .38-55 be reamed to handle a longer case, and if so, what would the parent be?

Pete

Brian56 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2013, 06:08:12 AM »

Pete, Winchester made a 38-70 in 1886. Midway USA still sells the brass.

Brian@Remington:

petemi · « **Reply #2 on:** March 05, 2013, 07:55:03 AM »

Very interesting Brian. Thank you. I wonder if anyone has a reamer?

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 05, 2013, 08:01:11 AM »

Not much to do with that one Pete, most of the other larger 38-?? are based on the 45-70 inlcuding the 38-70. The parent case of the 38-55 is the 38-50 Everlasting Ballard, smaller 38-?? are something entirely different. $:-\$ 38-72 brass can be made from 405 Win, so that tells ya it's not a candidate either if you want to shoot multiple rounds in one chamber like the Maxi can.

Tim

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

petemi · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2013, 09:44:47 AM »

I understand Tim. Thank you.

Pete

RPRNY · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2013, 09:55:54 AM »

.38 Special -> 357 Mag - > 357 Max ;

45-70 -> 45-90 -> 45-120;

38-55 -> .375 WCF

The .375 will chamber in your 38-55 and the Handi would take the pressure. I imagine one would expand case mouths with something like the Lee tool to take the slightly larger nominal .379 38-55 bullet. Neck life may be an issue. Annealing may help? It should "pretty much" fireform to fit the Ballard chamber. Easy fireforming charges may minimize case stretch. It's all "close", but I have no idea whether it's close "enough"?

Blackhawker · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2013, 10:35:12 AM »

Someone, I can't recall the member's name, had a very elongated 38-??. He had photos of his reloads posted on a link here on Greybeard. I think it was a 38-seventysomething.

I have no idea of the actual case length, however. As I recall, it was all custom made but I believe he bought the brass from a place like Buffalo Arms or Track of the Wolf, possibly.

I'm sorry I can't give you more definitive info on that but I'm sure someone can find it here someplace.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2013, 10:42:34 AM »

Quote from: RPRNY on March 05, 2013, 09:55:54 AM

.38 Special -> 357 Mag - > 357 Max ;

45-70 -> 45-90 -> 45-120;

38-55 -> .375 WCF

The .375 will chamber in your 38-55 and the Handi would take the pressure. I imagine one would expand case mouths with something like the Lee tool to take the slightly larger nominal .379 38-55 bullet. Neck life may be an issue. Annealing may help? It should "pretty much" fireform to fit the Ballard chamber. Easy fireforming charges may minimize case stretch. It's all "close", but I have no idea whether it's close "enough"?

The 375Win won't work in a 38-55 H&R barrel, the bullets are too small, neither will 375Win brass loaded with .379" jacketed bullets without neck reaming, been there tried both. Besides, 38-55 brass can be loaded easily to exceed 375Win velocities due to the higher case capacity, Pete and I and many Win Big Bore owners have been doing it for years!

Oh yeah....Ya skipped 360 DW in the Maxi!

Tim

http://www.shootersforum.com/leverguns-their-cartridges-general/2137-nobody-has-375-win.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,148853.msg1098617662.html#msg1098617662

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,215609.msg1099163083.html#msg1099163083

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,150451.msg1098629743.html#msg1098629743

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2013, 10:45:42 AM »

Quote from: Blackhawker on March 05, 2013, 10:35:12 AM

Someone, I can't recall the member's name, had a very elongated 38-??. He had photos of his reloads posted on a link here on Greybeard. I think it was a 38-seventysomething. I have no idea of the actual case length, however. As I recall, it was all custom made but I believe he bought the brass from a place like Buffalo Arms or Track of the Wolf, possibly.

I'm sorry I can't give you more definitive info on that but I'm sure someone can find it here someplace.

He did a 38-72 (Rockrat maybe?), but again it won't allow the use of smaller than 38-55 rounds since it's based on the larger case head of the 45-70, same goes for the 38-90, 9.3x74R brass would work for it.

Tim

cudatruck · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2013, 11:11:19 AM »

I looked up .38-70 it seems to have a slight bottleneck shape almost a taper. You could re chamber to .38-50 remington and get 8gr more case capacity but could not fire the .38-55 anymore. the largest in this class appears to be the .38-90 winchester Express with 109.64 grs water! wow. but again tapered.

it looks like the .38-55 was the evolution of some older cases and that's where it stopped. until the .375 but you know that story. there is a .375 flanged nitro express made from .405 basic brass. looks like you could make a true wild cat out of that one a little thinner in the body and turn the rim to make a longer .38-55? the .375FNE is 2.50 inches long!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2013, 11:22:59 AM »

Read my first reply and look at the 38-55 in the link I posted, its parent case is the 38-50 Ballard Everlasting. Here's a copy of the COTW with some of the old 38-?? rounds, they list a 38-35 Stevens Everlasting in which a couple 41 Colt rounds can be fired, but they're smaller diameter rounds also.

Tim

http://books.google.com/books?id=bjhy8uv196IC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=38-35+stevens+everlasting&source=bl&ots=STLNBUyxyk&sig=xRir-q_MReT_ZqUyKCQPNMcA2-g&hl=en&sa=X&ei=g242UfCEA8TErQHJ5YGQAQ&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=38-35%20stevens%20everlasting&f=false

Smokin Joe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2013, 11:57:14 AM »

Or, if you bought a bunch of the Bertram basic .30-30 3 1/4 brass, you could end up with something like this:

30-30 Basic 3 1/4" Cases

http://www.buffaloarms.com/30_30_Basic_Reloading_Brass_it-158621.aspx?CAT=3835

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2013, 12:03:05 PM »

Along with a custom reamer to be able use it!! $:-\$

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2013, 12:04:15 PM »

I suppose if a 45-120 is a cigar round then the .380x3.25 would be the cigarillo?
Why Pete? You wanting an 18" .380 Whelen now?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2013, 12:06:22 PM »

I think Pete was also looking for shorter rounds for the 38-55, as in using 38spl and 357mag in the Maxi, not just longer rounds, the 38-55 is the shorter round unfortunately.

Tim

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2013, 12:19:21 PM »

If he fire forms 30-30s its shorter (about .1.90-1.95), then trim that back to whatever and make his own 'family of lengths'

.
I have one trimmed to clear the base of a .379 soft lead bullet breech seated right up into the rifling that I can decap/recap, fill almost to the top at the bench and card or wax wad and stand there shooting schuetzen, old time style.
For hunting it isnt the powerhouse we have become used to, on either end, but I think it kills out of proportion to its size due to bullet dia. and that FP cast bullet. A little loopy in traj. but so is a 45-70. If we want a 'flat shooter' Im really thinking something like the 30-06 might catch on...........though that 30-30 is a 'fine, small bore express' (T. Roosevelt).
Im really happy with 100% loads of Trail Boss for cast shooting in my two. At 50yd. out back, if I do my part, its laying them one on top of another with just a casual rest across the deck rail. That with the cheap Lee mould bullet of soft lead or basically WWts for a little harder. My Express loads make it a real 150yd. hunter and Im typically not reaching that far with a peep/bead anymore anyway.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2013, 12:31:58 PM »

Why mess with trimming brass when there's published low velocity plinking data available for the full size round, the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists 249gr and 269gr bullets from ~900-~1200fps with Red Dot, 700X, Green Dot, PB and Unique, no fillers/wads required.

Tim

RPRNY · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2013, 01:29:54 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on March 05, 2013, 12:19:21 PM

If we want a 'flat shooter' Im really thinking something like the 30-06 might catch on...........though that 30-30 is a 'fine, small bore express' (T. Roosevelt).

Classic!

noyb72 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2013, 02:12:07 PM »

What about not worrying about interchangability? I think a .379 JDJ or a .379x54R would be quite the stalking rifle.

Ron

eskimo36 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2013, 02:45:29 AM »

That long one looks like my 9.3x74r... one of my favorite calibers.

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2013, 03:05:19 AM »

I was just wishful thinking. I thought perhaps someone stretched a '55 case out to 70 or something like that which would only require a reaming. It seems odd that it didn't happen when the .45s and .50s grew. I'm very happy with my .38-55 the way it is. The .375 Winchester loads put it way up there, competing with the .356/.358 when you compare velocity to bullet diameter.

Pete