Bull Barrel or NO Bull Barrel?

[ousooners1baby]

When shopping for handi's, does the barrel being a bull have any impact on your decisions? Do you guys like them or dislike them? I have read most handi's should be shot slower than some guns in not allowing the barrels to get hot.  Is this something the bull would prevent?  Basically just wondering the advantages and disadvantages of the bull.




jer

[gcrank1]

When I was doing more 'target shooting' on the range I wanted the 'bull barrel' (they are not a full dia to muzzle, but tapered HB) but now that Im carrying afield more, lighter is better.
IIRC my 'bull' UV 22M goes about 7.5# c/w a light scope. My favorite upland dbl.brl. shotguns go 6ish#.
It takes a HB longer (more rounds) to get hot, then holds it longer too. I know the guys who have the ultralites seem to like them for hunting. The closest I get is probably my 22LR Sportster barrel on the UV when I swap and it is sweet to carry and OK offhand if I stick to the fundamentals.

[thejanitor]

I have had 2 and still have 1 both being .223 one was 2 inches longer than the other and they were both quite heavy for carrying around coyote hunting, for laying on a bench prairie dog shooting it was ok, but to go way out and carry it around for the coyote where one or two shots is max in any rapid time, a light contour would be just fine. 
thejanitor

[hoytcanon]

Your use will dictate your preferred contour... I have many HB's, Standard's and Super Lights... A heavier barrel will help (marginally) with over-heating... having said that though, my worse barrel for over heating is a heavy barrel .308... I have not slugged the bore but I suspect it is tight. Personally of all the contours, I would go with the standard 8 times out of 10... light enough without being too light, chops down nicely if you decide to go shorty... If you anticipate alot of long range shooting, particularly with the hotter long action calibers (.22/250, .25/06, .280, .30/06, .35 Whelen etc...), the heavy barrel might be your best bet (although I don't think they ever made the .35W in a heavy, but the .25/06 & .280 were definitely offered in a longer 26" length)... if you weigh 98 pounds "soak n' wet" and will be hiking the Rockies... you'll want to go with the Super Light. My primary predator guns in .223 and .243 are heavy barrels... I like them for stability more than anything... which IME is more important off-hand than off-bench.

[petemi]

I HATE bull barrels.  They're a chore to lug around.  They won't sling properly because they're not balanced.  I live in a cold part of the country.  I have never had barrel heating problems with a standard countour, and just about none with a Superlight.  Normally, I can't check a target, load and shoot fast enough with a Handi to heat it up.  They ain't ARs.  You're not going to dump a 30 round magazine.  Hunting, it's a non-issue.......... unless you need 20 rounds to kill something, and by that time you should be standing over it.  I've only owned one bull barrel and it found a new home after a week.  A Handi rifle is supposed to be just that....Handy.  A bull barrel negates that.  I suppose if you read between the lines you'll figure out I don't own and won't own another bull barrel.

Pete

[YRUpunting?]

I HATE bull barrels.  They're a chore to lug around.  They won't sling properly because they're not balanced.  I live in a cold part of the country.  I have never had barrel heating problems with a standard countour, and just about none with a Superlight.  Normally, I can't check a target, load and shoot fast enough with a Handi to heat it up.  They ain't ARs.  You're not going to dump a 30 round magazine.  Hunting, it's a non-issue.......... unless you need 20 rounds to kill something, and by that time you should be standing over it.  I've only owned one bull barrel and it found a new home after a week.  A Handi rifle is supposed to be just that....Handy.  A bull barrel negates that.  I suppose if you read between the lines you'll figure out I don't own and won't own another bull barrel.

Pete

AMEN!!!!

[hoytcanon]

I HATE bull barrels. 
Pete

I love bulls!!!... errrrrr, eh, uhumm... that came out wrong, no I love cows, but also Heavy Barrels... sure they are heavier to lug around, but they are very steady at the shot... and I'll mention what feels REALLY good, and that is a bull shorty... and 18" bull puts the weight between your hands, sling carries better than a long heavy (about the same or better than a standard 22") and feels soooo solid shooting free hand... I have two 18" heavy .223's and two 20" heavy .243's.

[quickdtoo]

A shorty or a Superlight for me!!  I don't hunt from a stand tho either, I still hunt 99% of the time....... until I get tired anyway!! 

Tim

[petemi]

Tim, I think I figured it out.  We must be a lot older than Hoyt and carried enough long, heavy sidehammers around the woods to have cured us

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Yupper, weight didn't use to bother me much when I was 50, but it sure does now, I spend a heck of a lot more time packin em around than I do shootin em, so weight is a big factor for me, how they hold is inconsequential if it fits me good, I've always used a supported position if I have time, and don't need one for a quick shot under 100yds or so. 

Tim

[tacklebury]

To me the bull barrels are great if you are doing a lot of sit and aim shooting, like prarie dogs/ground hogs.  If you are doing run and gun or stalking, then the standard or superlite are way better.  Even my .357 Mag with it's bull barrel cut down to 16.25" is nose heavy.

[gcrank1]

And then there's those 45-70BC and 38-55TM models........but the muzzle is a mite closer to the target.......

[hoytcanon]

Tim, I think I figured it out.  We must be a lot older than Hoyt and carried enough long, heavy sidehammers around the woods to have cured us Pete

Pete, I am not as old as you two (fff...fff...fff... udds) but I have been wandering in the North woods trucking a weapon of some sort for more than 45 years since I was four or five... and we never lacked for meat on the table. I think the weight thing is proportionate to physique... I am 6' 4" and 260 pounds a 10 pound gun is only 1/26 of my weight... if you are 150 pounds (just throwing out a number) a ten pound gun is 1/15th of your weight... and that much more draining to carry... I'll be honest here... I love the heft and feel of my weapon and I like knowing it is there... wispy, twiggy weapons don't feel as... as... real. To each their own, eh? 

[GrampaMike]

I have always leaned toward the heavy barrels myself.  One of the things my dad and I never agreed on.  He always thought I was crazy to carry my heavy rifles compared to him, he wanted them as light as possible.  He was a big man too, we just did not seem eye to eye on barrel weight.  Smile to my face thinking back on his comments about his son's heavy guns.

[gcrank1]

Back in the '70s I had a home version of what became popularized as the 'mountain rifle'; a Rem. 722 in 257 Rbt's in a thinned and trimmed factory stock, profiled barrel and light scope that went about 6.5# loaded with a nylon sling on QD's. It would shoot sub MOA at 100yd. too. Shame I sold it in a moment of weakness..........WHAT was I thinkin'??

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

I find I prefer them lighter, shorter, slimmer.... 

I have never seemed to be bothered by recoil much when shooting.  Years ago, I started wearing the protection when shooting off the bench, and that has helped me a lot.

to me, the standard 45/70 feels about the same as my 270 Ruger, as my 870 shotgun, as my 6.5x55's

they all go bang, they all jump a bit on my shoulder, and I stopped trying to see the bullet impact.

the follow through has made me far more confident in my shooting, that now, I can pretty much know if it is a good shot or not.

[rickt300]

I do a lot of stand hunting and rifle weight is not a real issue if it's under 11 pounds. Tree stands are different. I used to hunt in a shotgun only area and my gun was a 20 gauge USH scoped. That thing was always trying to crawl out of my hands but it did kill a bunch of deer and it is a good offhand gun. I go on an annual Nutria hunt in Louisiana and most shooting is from flat bottom boats. I really like a heavy barrel for this.

[petemi]

Hoyt, you hit the nail on the head.  I'm 150 lbs.  If you were four or five when you started and have been at it for 45 years, we fully understand it.  You ain't been there yet.  You've got to be about 50.  When Tim and I were 50 we did the same.  We don't do it any more, brother.  Hang on, you'll see.....

Pete

[hoytcanon]

Hoyt, you hit the nail on the head.  I'm 150 lbs.  If you were four or five when you started and have been at it for 45 years, we fully understand it.  You ain't been there yet.  You've got to be about 50.  When Tim and I were 50 we did the same.  We don't do it any more, brother.  Hang on, you'll see..... Pete

I just want to send a notice to all you fine GBO folks... Pete tells me that I will be selling off all my heavy barreled rifles over the next twelve months... as always, at a huge loss... don't blink!     

[petemi]

Hoyt, Hopefully, you've got about twenty years to worry about it.  Enjoy them while you can.  That goes for all of us...do it now.

Pete

[cwlongshot]

Well,
 50 here too.  (Nearly at least, I feel ALLOT older on bad days. )  I have always liked HB rifles, for at least in my mind they are more accurate. Now we all know ANY BARREL PROFILE can out shoot any other on any odd day. BUT for my way of hunting and shooting the extra weight feels good.
When I was hunting Vermont and Up State NY we did ALLOT of walking and I could DEFFINATELY see/saw the advantages of a lighter rifle.  The great tease, was offering someone 20$ for there rifle heavy half way back to the truck/camp. To get them out of having to carry it.

Now a days I hunt small parcells of land say 100-1000 acres so long walks are not an option... As a matter of fact, when I connect I make two trips to the truck!! Run back with the pack and rifle, returning with a few less layers of clothing, NO rifle and only a knife, rope and side arm. (Or my Polaris ATV If I have permission on that property.) (I find the animal wheeled carts a GOD SEND!!)

I have a short HEAVY BARREL 307/308Win and a ULTRA LITE orig 357 Maxi at 16.5'' both Handi rifles. I take that Maxi out ALLOT more than others, second most frequestly used is my 17'' 454 Casull in a handi. Its barrel is what I would call a med contour.

Is one better than the other... I will tip my hat to Hoyt's first post. I agree 100%.

[stewmagoo]

A shorty or a Superlight for me!!  I don't hunt from a stand tho either, I still hunt 99% of the time....... until I get tired anyway!! 

Tim

I agree, but there is a time and place for the bull barrels.  Converting to superlights, with the mountain I climb to deer hunt during rifle season, my synthetic bull barrel Encore was too heavy.

[Yak Angler]

For me its all about balance. I found my 22" HB handi very front heavy and in the woods i hunt short barrels are an advantage,  as they come up faster , don't get caught up in brush as easy etc. I cut and crowned that barrel to 19" and it shoots every bit as good as it did before and the difference in balance is night and day. Wish i could cut it down to 16-17" but canadian gun laws prohibit that.
 
Now my superlight .223 is what i take on pack in or long walk hunts just because I like the idea of the minimalist approach to hunting when possible and I am actually in the process of turning it into something similar to a T/C contender with a pistol grip to make it even more packable. and even though it's only about 2 lbs lighter than the HB model why not save the weight when you have the option available as performance in my hunting scenerio is comparable to one another anyway.
 
Now if your goal is to ring every last fraction of accuracy and long range performance out of a handi rifle then the HB would be the better choice IMO due to the intrisic accuracy advantage as slight as that may be.

[gcrank1]

Im surprised to hear that your laws wont let you go to a shorter barrel but that you can make a rifle into 'more like a Contender'?

[hoytcanon]

Actually the law only relates to Cutting down a barrel... it can be made by a registered barrel company to a shorter length, but cannot be cut shorter than 18"... I have MANY 18 1/4" barrels...   

[theratdog]

i built a real nice a. r. with a 20 inch bull barrel is the most accurate gun i have ever shot but too heavy for me my son has it now. built another one with a lighter 18 inch barrel not quite as accurate but much lighter. the 22inch handy standard barrel is just right specifically the 45-70.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Hoyt, you hit the nail on the head.  I'm 150 lbs.  If you were four or five when you started and have been at it for 45 years, we fully understand it.  You ain't been there yet.  You've got to be about 50.  When Tim and I were 50 we did the same.  We don't do it any more, brother.  Hang on, you'll see..... Pete

I just want to send a notice to all you fine GBO folks... Pete tells me that I will be selling off all my heavy barreled rifles over the next twelve months... as always, at a huge loss... don't blink!     

looks like I'm outta luck.

I'll be 50 this summer....

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Im surprised to hear that your laws wont let you go to a shorter barrel but that you can make a rifle into 'more like a Contender' ?

our laws make as much sense as the US HSA laws

if "Manufactured" shorter than 18" it is OK, but you cannot "Shorten" a manufactured barrel less than 18"
so those 10" 12ga barrels on pump guns are OK.

I think the OAL rule at 26" is the same...   You can't cut, fold, whatever to less than 26" but you can buy a "Manufactured" stock and put that on to make it shorter...

so....   take a 870 clone, put a 10" barrel on it, mount a pistol grip, and it is Legal, but cut a barrel to 17.9999999 inches and you get 10 years all expenses paid vacation at the crowbar resort.
3 meals a day, and all the sex you can handle.

[hoytcanon]

looks like I'm outta luck. I'll be 50 this summer....

I'm only a few months behind you Nuk... '63 was a good year...

The spring of 63' brought this Corvette Stingray version;
 

 
The summer of 63' brought Nanuk;
 

 
And the fall of 63' brought Hoyt;
 

 
Well... thats what I see when I look in the mirror... some people may see this;
 

 
 

[Yak Angler]

The simplified Canadian gun types are:
 
Non-restricted--these would be your typical rifles and shotguns--they are the only ones allowed for hunting
 
restricted--handguns, AR-TYPE rifles, short barreled rifles ( ie T/C contender etc.)--these require a special license and are illegal to fire outside of a gun range.
 
prohibited--These are snub nosed revolvers, ak-47 , full auto types and modified weapons that originally left the factory as a non-restricted class or restricted class and someone cut the barrel to short or add a folding stock and now the overall length is below 26" and it will still fire.
 
The main rule is. overall length must be atleast 26" with a few exceptions like the henry mare's leg or it is considered either restricted or prohibited and is illegal to hunt with
 
The second rule is you can't cut a factory barrel below 18" but it is ok to buy one that was made by the factory shorter than 18" as long as the overall length of the gun is atleat 26" in a ready to fire state
 
so if you buy a 870 shotgun, take the factory shoulder stock off and install a pistol grip and then you swap the factory barrel to a shorter factory prodused barrel like those 10" models you had better make sure it is atleast 26" in overall length or you have just created a prohibited weapon and criminal charges would be likely if caught with it.
 
So basically when i install the pistol grip on my handi-rifle to make it similar to a t/c contender i need to make sure the overall length is atleast 26" if it is I am good to go for hunting with it. If not i may need to use an extended bolt or something siliar to get the overall length to 26"
 
weird rules do to the factory produced loop holes but what choice do you have but to follow them