Finishing the build - Musings

[AtlLaw]

Last night I found myself pouring over my reference books and surfing the IN trying to find the perfect Golden Age PA longrifle to use as a template for my next build.  And then it dawned on me that I didn't want to build such a rifle.   
 
Tastes change with time, knowledge and a growing appreciation for the artistry of long gone Masters.  At least mine does...    Maybe this is why hobby artists sit in front of a Rembrant and try to duplicate the painting down to the brush stroke technique.
 
I prefer the Southern Mountain Rifle style and if I were to build another deer hunting rifle it would be one of those.  But I already have the one I built after I put my current build down the first time.    So, now what I really want to build is a left hand Fowler.
 
But I'm working on the 32 cal Lancaster/Maryland/etc. School Longrifle...    I realized that my current work, a hodge podge of parts bought because they looked good to me at the time and basically, for the most part, fit the "school" I was trying to work within, when put together would not really be representative of anything.   
 
I had tried to delude myself into believing this would be a good practice piece.  A way to practice inletting, wood carving, metal engraving and all the other endeavors that go into building a longrifle and actually have something when I finished.  This is true to an extent, but since I don't have the finished rifle firmly envisioned, it won't represent anything more then a "Longrifle" in the most generic sense.  And since that finished rifle won't even be one I can use, I find my devotion to the task continually getting sidetracked.
 
Or worse, I fear my work will get shoddy in my haste to finish the rifle or even move on to the next stage of the build!     Have you ever had that "rush to get something done" feeling?    That's how I'm beginning to feel.   
 
So now I have to stop, get my head on straight and go back and double check everything I've done so far.  I'll look for anywhere that I might have said "good enough" rather then "perfect."     I'll try to find things I should have finished rather then putting off until another time.  Then I may step back from it for a while.  Not another 20 years though!   
 
This rifle may not be truly representative of any particular school or Master, but it will be representative of the effort I put into it!   

[Cuts Crooked]

This rifle may not be truly representative of any particular school or Master, but it will be representative of the effort I put into it!   

+1
.......and in the end that's all any of us an really do anyway. After all, a perfect copy is just that.....a copy!

Do your best to build something you like and when it's done, enjoy it!

[flintlock]

I had a flashback when you mentioned hurrying to get something done...Her mom and dad were pulling in the driveway!!!!! 

[AtlLaw]

ROTFLMAO!!!!      And that my friend is the laugh I needed before I go to bed!   

[AtlLaw]

Still piddling along on the rifle before I inlet the lock.  But I've been doing a lot of wishing I could be further along so I can do what I'm anxious to try; carving designs in the stock and engraving the metal.   
 
Then it dawned on me.  Why wait 'till I get to that point on the rifle!?     I can start practicing carving/engraving right now!   
 
I've done a bit of leather carving and it has occurred to me that the basic principles are the same.  Just the medium worked on, leather, wood or metal, is different.   
 
So I'm off to find some wood carving tools and a chasing hammer!   

[AtlLaw]

Well, I'm rejuvenated now and anxious to get on with the build.   
 
I think the problem was not having what the finished rifle would look like firmly in mind.     So  when I saw TotW had a set of full sized plans for an Armstrong Rifle, I bought it!  It helped me firmly cement my ideas and now can "see" what I'm aiming for!     Right down to the engraving and carving!   
 
And ol' F'Lock can note the double set triggers, sit back and give me a well deserved "I told you so!"   

[flintlock]

"We're cooking with peanut oil now..."

[AtlLaw]

Been sick with the late winter crud for over 3 weeks now.     Haven't felt like doing anything but sleep.  It's still hanging on a bit, but at least I have some ambition!
 
Kathie got it from me but went to the doc, got some antibiotics and is over it now.   
 
And, once I started feeling better I completed one project that's been sitting around; a set of faux stag grips for my 1851 Navy Richard's conversion!   
 
And I am gonna finish stitching the gunbelt that's been waiting around for months before the rifle has all my attention!  The member I promised it to musta thought I changed my mind... 
 
I did take rasp in hand last evening, but that's for the "stock" thread.   

[mechanic]

Richard, the old masters didn't build from a predesigned plan either.  Since this is solely your creation, it can be anything you want it to be, and others can follow you.  Give yourself credit friend, not many would put the level of craftsmanship into something you do, so name it what you will.....Richard the Great's squirrel popper or whatever.
Ben

[AtlLaw]

Aw geeeeze Ben...    It's a little early to admire the craftsmanship!  I may just be putting a lot of effort into something that will look like crap when I'm finished... 
 
But I was thinking of making a shooting bag, powder horn and a few other little accouterments to go with this, sort of a ready to hunt set!    Well, that made me think of building a file knife and hook tomahawk, which made me think of you.
 
I gotta get over there so I can learn sumpin about beating hot metal!   

[mechanic]

Gimme a holler Richard.  We can build a basic tomahawk in about an hour, and you can doll it up all you want.  I've got to order some more haft blanks, and I've already got metal cut to order.  Forged knives are easy, unless you want hollow ground, that takes a while for me.  Can't help you with the powder horn, I'm out of cows....but I've got a bunch of cast off files.
 
I'm about two weeks away from having my new forge set up.  I always seem to get ready to do metal work when the summer heats up....
 
Ben

[AtlLaw]

I'm beginning to wonder if I'll live Long enough to finish this rifle!     But, I'm working on it steadily if not for long periods.  I'm also doing a lot of other stuff in preparation for future points in the build.
 
Things like accumulating tools I know I'll need, learning about and practicing skills I know I have to develop, stuff like that.   
 
For example, another thread about silver got me thinking about the inlays on the rifle.  I could just use some precut ones from T of the W, but!   
 
The "silver" thread got me talking to McWoodduck who picked up eight silver quarters for me!  Thanks Brian!!!    So, if everything goes right, when I flatten them out to .040 thickness, each one will be big enough to cut an escutcheon from with enough left over to make the nails used to fasten it to the forend!  Eight escutcheons will be a lot of work, and a lot more expensive then nickle precuts, but they will be hand made and coin silver!   
 
Then there's the piece of maple I bought to practice carving on which proved I have to carefully resharpen my wood chisels and also convinced me how important it will be to correctly sharpening the engraving chisels.   
 
But, the whole idea is try things I have never done, or at least improve on things I have, have a good time while I'm doing it (working with my hands relaxes me  ), and have something to show for it when I'm done!
 
So, this year, next year, who cares!?   

[flintlock]

It took me 200 hours and 2 years to finish mine...
 
I also used a silver quarter as a thumb inlay...These were buried by my Dad and I during the 60s under our house...He grew up during the Depression so he felt it necessary to have real silver as well as currency...
 
At any rate, I fashioned an inlay along with silver nails and used  on this gun...

[AtlLaw]

Well there you go!     I'm kinda sorry I didn't keep track of the hours spent on this one.     But I know my last was well over 200 hours! 
 
I was thinking of using a 50 cent coin for the thumb piece but was concerned that there would be a lot of waste.  Something I don't appreciate considering the cost of coins.     Do you think a quarter flattened down to .045 or .050 inch would be big enough?   
 
OH!  and using a coin that has that history must make it even more special.   

[flintlock]

I think a quarter is the right size...I didn't even flatten mine, just drilled 4 holes for the nails, bent it to fit, inlet it and nailed her in...Oh, I did also put a little glue on the back just to keep it tight...I then filed it to fit the curve of the wrist...
 
Funny thing about those quarters...We buried them in front of the chimney, under the house...I was maybe 12, this was in the 60s...Dad passed away in 1975...We had A/C put in the house that year and the duct work went under the house...I was 28 or so when Mom decided to move and sold the house...So my brother and I had to get under there and get the silver...
 
We had a hellofatime getting through the maze of duct work and getting in front of the chimney to dig those jars up...I'm now 57 and at 6ft 5 and 250, no way could my butt get to it today...

[AtlLaw]

I have been busily teaching myself to carve wood the last few weeks and I'm going to add another sub-thread on carving and engraving to summarize those adventures; hopefully tonight!   
 
But in the meantime I have another thought that I'd like everyone's input on.   
 
If you remember, I originally inlet the wrist on the rifle for a tang I later decided not to use.  The current tang covers all that inletting except a small (approx. 1/4 x 3/8ths) half-oblong shaped area.
 
Now, I've got to say I'm getting pretty good at covering up my screw-ups!      So I thought I'd fill the opening that will be behind the barrel tang with a plug of faux ivory.  I imagined that it would look pretty good, especially when surrounded by carvings.
 
All that got me thinking even more.      It started with the thought that maybe I could re-cut the original tang inletting area to make the ivory inlay look more like a planned part of the decoration.   
 
That led to a whole bunch of "think, ponder, consider" and finally agonize!      This is where I need y'alls input!
 
To summarize my thoughts, as I said I decided I could fashion an inlay behind the tang.  Then the encircled 8 point star I plan to inlay into the cheek piece could be ivory also.  Finally a piece of ivory could be inlet into the area under the bottom of the cheek piece, shaped and carved to mate with the carvings that flow under the cheek piece from the wrist on one side and the butt area on the other.
 
This would result in a sorta silver & ivory theme to the decoration of the rifle; ala Armstrong's "Silver" rifle.   
 
Then it hit me!  I will use the coins that McWooduck got me for the silver part, but was going to use some TruIvory (a brand of imitation ivory) I had for the ivory part!      That would never do... 
 
Fortunately a little surfing has shown me I can get scrap ivory for a reasonable (all else being considered) price.   
 
Then the anxiety set in...     I don't think I have ever seen an original long rifle with ivory inlays!      Gunmakers used what materials were available, i.e. coin silver, and I imagine ivory wasn't often found laying around in the late 1700's early 1800's.  So, I guess to use ivory inlays would take this rifle out of the "based on an existing John Armstrong rifle" category and place it into the group that has come to be know as "fantasy rifles."   
 
Therefore, my question to all y'all is:  If I were to use ivory for the three inlays mentioned, do you think that ivory would look: worse, as good as, or better then silver?   
 
To put it another way, if it were to be your rifle, what would you prefer?   

[JonnyReb]

  Very cool, look forward to hearing of your inlaying adventures as i'm contemplating my own. I'll let you go first

  So far as using ivory, i wouldn't hesitate as it WAS used in areas where ivory was common, and most of the original American rifles and muskets used foreign locks, triggers and metal bits anyways..yours will have more "Made in America" built into it than many of the original arms. I do like your idea of using real ivory as opposed to the faux stuff though

 Back to my original statement that ivory was used way back..i have a former customer who had a wheelock hanging in his house, he said it was from the 1500's and he thought it was from spain. Not sure what he based that on but its what he told me. The entire butt of the stock had been replaced with what he said was a whalebone, carved to shape. The forearm was basically a halfstock and was wood..appeared original to the action. It was covered with yellowish ivory or possibly some other bone(i don't know the difference and this was 15 years+ ago) inlays, some very elaborate. The rifle was amazing in design and showed hundreds of hours of labor, in spite of its then current worn condition. Wish i could find that guy now..  There is a british flint smoothbore on topic right now at the traditional muzzleloading forum..its early 1800's i believe they stated and it has 3 nice ivory inlays in its stock..i think, traditionally speaking that you're good to go.  .

  Will be looking for your thread on carving.  Jeff

[necchi]

Oh Ivory was around, it just wasn't used.
The Afgan-India Jazail is many times heavy with Ivory and Mother of Pearl, Bone, but that's a different school that didn't influence the early American builds.
http://www.google.com/search?q=jezail+rifle&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=aDepUditAcOryQHLgoG4Bw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=614
 
Pewter was used, and easy to work with,, (?)
 

To put it another way, if it were to be your rifle, what would you prefer?   

Silver.
 
I've often found myself wondering around too whilst attempting to carve Rocco in a fitting style, because it's a lot easier to do something else. When I find myself in that place I go over to the ALR forum and cruise through the virtual library they have of originals and ground myself.
The term you mention  "fantasy rifles" is now politically incorrect it's called a "Contemporary Build" and the door is wide open and that another link over at the ALR, I see your there so this link should work, open the blog then click on any name in the right hand colum, once to an individuals rifle, click on any of the photos and it'll open to a gallery of that rifle. There's some great ideas there too.
 
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3621.0
 
 
 Post script, my carving has stalled, I need to order tools.  A V-gouge won't do what a Parting tool does!!

[AtlLaw]

To put it another way, if it were to be your rifle, what would you prefer?   

Silver.

I looked and thought a bunch more tonight while I was carving...   The Ivory would look nice I'm sure, but I just don't know if I could really accept it...      I'm not much into fantasy... WAIT!!      At my age that's all I got!!!    
 
BTW, where did this "contemporary build" stuff come from? 
 
 

Post script, my carving has stalled, I need to order tools.  A V-gouge won't do what a Parting tool does!!

I heard dat!    

[necchi]

BTW, where did this "contemporary build" stuff come from?

It's been out there for several years now.
I guess a bunch of guys that where doing this fantasy build thing that's been mocked by the old builders for so long all got together and cried how it's artistic expression, so they started calling themselves "contemporary" as in new an modern expression builders.
Guy's can get very testy about the way they build, it's a never ending banter between the guy's that follow a school or copy a single gun versus those that just build a long gun that is worked to show the single piece of woods highlights or a mix-n-match of several styles.
I myself haven't the courage to name a single historical builders name when I mention what I'm trying to make, I like the early Pennsylvania styles for the most part and those are different than a Virginia or a Southern and far from a Kentucky or Tennessee,,
 
Once you learn to navigate that "blog" site there is a huge mix from originals to copies of originals and modern builds of long rifles, yet the majority of guys exhibiting there are very talented. The rifles usually just have the guys name in the list.
 
I really don't know about the ivory, I think if you re-worked the area you want to patch (like you say) in a way to make it look like it's been added for a reason it would probably fit in. Just my idea of course, it's your gun, I can see the one piece of ivory working but I can't reach in your mind to see how your going to get the other pieces worked in too flow together.
To me that's the neatest thing those old masters did, they made it all "move" together, ya know, that all the carving and inlay work was a finished piece, all as one. Some of the heavily inlayed originals look like several individual pieces of work placed on the same canvas but not blending together.
 
I admire that same thing in a contemporary build too. I like the ebb and flow of a balanced piece.
 
When my mind get's into the zone of a build, I'll be at work, but my mind is trying to work that line from the front of the nose and back into the right side butt AND which way my hand has to hold that chisel while I'm working it around that curve!! Should I roll that V left or right for the chamfer? And what If I lay a small volute towards that corner from THIS point? That's all proof  I have a lot to learn because I'm still trying to work a carving instead of just going at a predetermined scroll at a certain point because it'll fit in with the one next to it,,,,
I'm doing a lot of drawing while waiting for the tools.
 
Here's a tip I learned, take what your doing out of the build area, maybe outside in sun light and look at it from 10-15ft away and from a couple different angles. Maybe use some scotch tape to hold on any inlay you might wanna try even if it's just a paper cut out of it. Look at the whole thing.

[necchi]

Here's a quote from a current builder that was part of a recent discussion about olde school builds vrs  new wave stuff. He hit's the nail on the head why for many it matters to make these long rifles like the olde ones;
By Mr. Yates,

Lets face it the reason the American Longrifle is so appealing is because they are functional ART!!In order for art to be appealing the art must be aesthetically pleasing. The reason that the "old masters" designs have such appeal and have stood the test of time is that they are quality designs that are aesthetically pleasing.
Our current long rifles have their roots in designs from 1600-1700 France. They were laid down by some of the finest artists and designers who were commissioned by kings and royalty. In other words these artists were the best and the fact that their designs have stood the test of time and are still appealing is the proof. While they have evolved some over the years the basic designs that were laid down are still there.
 In order for new designs to be accepted they can't just be different for the sake of being different they must also be aesthetically pleasing. In order expand from those old masters one must fully understand and be fluent in the art from the past.
 There are few among us that are able to devote enough of their life to this pursuit or are talented enough artists to gain that mastery. Hershel House is one that has been successful. He mastered the designs of old and then expanded them into his own School of design. Quite simply he is a talented artist who devoted his life to his work. He was successful at going outside the box because his work is based on good design to begin with.
 Most that try to deviate from the schools of old and go outside the box fall flat because they don't have a full understanding of the art and their designs are not aesthetically pleasing. It's not enough just to be different but it must also be good art.

I was tempted to highlight some of that but I think it stands by itself if the whole thing is read. That last paragraph is really key, he says it kind of harshly when he says folks don't understand the art, it might not be that they don't understand, they just want to do something different, but loose something when they can't get those olde school lines and "flow" I mentioned above where Yates calls it Aesthetics. Bottom line it needs to be good art, and that's where many struggle, thus the emulation of the olde established ways. It's easier to recreate whats already proven to work.
 Anyways, he makes sense to me.

[flintlock]

I've seen the Hunter's Star done in ivory, black and white...Seems it was on a Jeager from the first quarter of the 1700s...I'll see if I can find it in my books that I have here...

[AtlLaw]

Here's a quote from a current builder ...

That about sums it up doesn't it?      Actually he puts into words what I feel.  I guess that's why I feel I should base a build on an existing rifle with just a teeny bit of artistic license!   
 
And the Ivory would exceed that limit by a great deal!      Soooo, scratch the Ivory!
 
You guys are a great way to bounce my thoughts off of.  Thanks for the input!   
 
One other thing... when I decided to finish this rifle I didn't think I had another build in me...     I know I said I wanted to do a fowler, and there was that perfect hunting rifle I designed in my mind one day sitting in a deer stand, but those would be fairly unadorned working guns.  Now after spending the last few week studying the "art" of the American Longrifle, brought about by my attempts at learning to carve and engrave, I think I would like to do one more... probably based on a rifle of one of the Golden Age Masters.  The concept is forming in my head as we speak!   

[JonnyReb]

 Well whatever you decide on, i'm sure its gonna be a work of art. As much thought as you've put into it, you know it will