Author Topic: Building my Split Trail Cairrage: Please help answer questions as I go! (Read 7789 times)

Indygunworks · « **Reply #60 on:** April 24, 2013, 01:51:39 PM »

Thanks, we are on the same page about the "spacer". In my post I was planning on putting the front transom right up against the axle, but your spacer idea sounds like it will be just as strong but allow me to put the front transom further forward which I think will help with astetics. The spacer will only need to be a bit over an inch, and I have enough wood that I can make it so the grain is running horizontal to the ground to allow the most strength during recoil.

When I started looking at how far to put the cheeks forward I had not considered the wood sheering off because it will be 100 percent wrapped in 1/4 inch metal.
I may be interested in using you and your local supplier for the acme rod, mostly because I think you will be able to pick out a nut that will best fit my needs. When I looked at them online I had a hard time getting an idea of scale and didn't want to pull the trigger w/out knowing I was going to get something that would work. How much do you think that will run me including your handling fee? Its worth the extra expense in my opinion to know that someone who knows what I need will be getting it so I don't end up wasting money in the long run. Also, I appreciate the insight as to how to drill the hole. I knew the rod would need some lateral movement but you answered the question spot on. How long of a rod will I need? I would rather have to much than not enough as it can always be trimmed later on. I don't have the center transom holes drilled in the cheek yet, but I can imagine they will be drilled before I get the rod. I don't know how expensive the stuff is so I am guessing I should air on the side of putting the center transom as high as possible so the screw can be as short as possible?
Lastly, my cheeks are 2 1/8th wide so if I use 2 inch flat stock which is fairly cheap then I can just sand the corners off 1/16th of an inch on either side to make it appear to be flush. This will save a ton of money over having metal laser cut to the exact dimension. I don't think there is any problem with this, but I thought I would toss it out there in case there was.

GGaskill · « **Reply #61 on:** April 24, 2013, 03:02:59 PM »

How long of a rod will I need? I would rather have to much than not enough as it can always be trimmed later on.

The length you will have to determine from your parts and geometry. Hopefully you have a scale drawing you're working from. The ACME rod comes in 12" and 36" lengths. Here is a page from the IPS catalog although the prices are probably out of date. From the picture, the nut looks about twice the rod diameter.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #62 on:** April 24, 2013, 03:29:28 PM »

Unfortunatly I am not working from a scale drawing as I am building to the "scale" in my head that I think will give me a product in the end I am happy with. I think a 36 inch section and 4 nuts would be fine. one for the project, and the other three to play around w/ on the left over threaded rod section.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #63 on:** April 26, 2013, 07:56:48 AM »

Don't know why they came out sideways, I turned them before I linked them. Actually before I even uploaded them as well.

Once I got the two threaded rods in the front locked down, and just one in the back these trails became ROCK solid. I was impressed at the strength w/ only half of the threaded rods in place, and NON of the transoms.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #64 on:** April 26, 2013, 12:57:15 PM »

Maybe these will work... Don't know whats going on w/ photobucket tonight.

GGaskill · « **Reply #65 on:** April 29, 2013, 03:05:47 PM »

If you see distorted images in the above post, try refreshing the web page and see if that fixes the problem. The forum generated bbcode was including height and width values that caused the distortion, especially on portrait oriented images. I have hand edited the bbcode to fix the issue but it may still be in original format if your browser is retrieving the images from the cache on your computer.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #66 on:** April 29, 2013, 03:54:55 PM »

working now thanks... Next time I email myself pictures from my phone to upload, I wont upload the large images to photobucket. I appreciate the help

Indygunworks · « **Reply #67 on:** February 17, 2014, 02:30:22 AM »

Not sure if any further updates are going to happen or not, if not i will try to add the pertinent pictures back.... I am just a bit bummed that i lost so much of the advice given on this thread as it would have been nice to reference back to it instead of posting some more silly questions. either way here is the current update.

Finally got it back from the welders... He did a pretty good job fixing his previous errors. I have since bought a lincoln mig welder and will be doing all of my own welding from here on out. Here are some pictures of the hardware to hold the capsquares and axle straps on. Also, i found some small bud light cans what will work with this bore size... way better fit than tomatoe past cans and ALOT cheaper.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #68 on:** February 17, 2014, 02:37:13 AM »

One more update. Got the key bolts cut down to size. i will be using 3/8th thick material for the keys and they will be around 1 inch tall where they wedge themselves into the key bolt.

All of the pictures i have saved for reference either has two key bolts and one hinge bolt, or the key bolt at the front. Given the little amount of space i have on the front of my cheeks i decided to put the keybolt in the rear to help spread out the "clutter" and to not make the front so busy. It might make mounting the cannon a bit more difficult but i dont anticipate any major issues with doing it this way.

GGaskill · « **Reply #69 on:** February 17, 2014, 04:04:53 AM »

I am just a bit bummed that i lost so much of the advice given on this thread as it would have been nice to reference back to it instead of posting some more silly questions.

Don't give up hope yet, Matt is still working on it. Although I will have to say that it is always best to make your own copies of stuff on the Internet you like as there is no guarantee it will be there the next time you want it.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #70 on:** February 17, 2014, 09:34:18 AM »

One more update for today.... Figured out a way to get the barrel lifted by myself to get the irons off. Got the hole drilled on the bottom of the front trail metal. That allowed me to get the hingebolt into place. I will have to fit the hinge bolt a little bit and probably add a half inch or so more threads to the rods but thats no biggy. Hopefully if i can find time tomorrow i can start fitting the capsquares to the bolts that will secure them into place. will be tedious but should not be too difficult.

Dissasembled ready for drilling

Bolts in place ready for the barrel to sit back down onto the carraige.

And a close up of the hinge and key bolts.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #71 on:** February 19, 2014, 12:16:27 AM »

Got a little bit more work done today. Here are pictures of the welder, the capsquare in progress of fitting it to the hardware, and a test weld to see how it would look on the capsquares. I dont know why the picture is upside down. its not like that on the computer and i dont know how to fix it.

I plan on adding a small amount of epoxy in the seam between the capsquare metal and the rod welded to the end to make it "flow" a little bit better. I dont have alot of room to work with and still allow it to hinge properly but i will do my best to make it look good. Unfortunately the roundstock may have to be welded right against the hole where the hingbolt comes through the capsquare. Ideally i would have liked at least 1/4 of an inch of material there but until i start cutting it down and test fitting the hinge i wont know if thats possible.

Zulu · « **Reply #72 on:** February 19, 2014, 12:39:49 AM »

Indy,
I like the way you made the capsquare key bolt. It was heated, folded over and flattened.
Very good idea!
Your project is coming along nicely!
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #73 on:** February 19, 2014, 01:16:37 AM »

Almost. it was 1/2 inch square stock that I used a bender on to get it close. Then I used an oxy acetalene torch to heat it up and hammered it with a piece of 3/8th flat stock in the middle until it was a wedge fit.... that will allow me to grind down the edges of the keys once i make them so they will be a very tight fit on all 4 sides. Then i welded the square stock to a piece of round stock that was threaded. Had to make the hole in the strapping 9/16 and grind down the corners of the square stock to get it to fit though.

The first iteration was a piece of round stock flattened out a bit but it just didnt look different enough from the hinge bolt and looked a bit like a hack job so i had to start over.

GGaskill · « **Reply #74 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:04:41 AM »

I dont know why the picture is upside down. its not like that on the computer and i dont know how to fix it.

It is oriented on photobucket the same way as here so the problem is not in the forum software. Was it taken with a smart phone type camera that rotates things depending on the orientation of the device? I have seen where that can cause orientation problems.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #75 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:18:24 AM »

Yes, and my phone never puts photo's on my computer oriented the right direction but i rotate them on the computer before i upload them and have not had this problem before.

Zulu · « **Reply #76 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:49:49 AM »

Indy,
Just open the picture on Photobucket. Above the picture it says "edit". Click on that and you can then rotate the picture properly. Hit "save". Check "replace original". You might have to hit save again.
Problem solved.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #77 on:** February 20, 2014, 09:54:05 AM »

A few more updates....

Test fit

Looking like things will line up ok

WELDED!!!

Drilled a hole, and filed it square to get the key bolt in. Marked the rest of the outline for material removal.

Had to file it square but i took most of the material out w/ a hacksaw and small drill bit.

GETTING CLOSER... and looking pretty good.

The other hinge bolt when I bent it I just realized this evening that I didn't bend it straight enough. I am going to have to take it back to the welders so I can use his oxy torch to heat it back up and hammer it back into parallel.... i am not sure how that one got past me last time, but it put the breaks on for the time being.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #78 on:** February 27, 2014, 11:39:22 PM »

Got one of the keys made.... It was a PITA. A metal cutting bandsaw really would have helped. I did all this with a hacksaw, and a hand file. took about two hours. One more to make and i will fit the keybolts to be snug on the pin. I also still need to weld the pins to the other side of the cap squares.

QUESTION: Right now the hinge bolts do not allow the capsqure to hinge up more than an inch or so before they bind. I could elongate the hole where the hinge bolt goes through the capsquare and i think that would allow it to hing, but am not sure if it would look good or if thats the way it is supposed to be done. Any advice to get the caqsquares to hinge so i dont have to remove the hinge bolt anytime i want to take the barrel off? Also it would be nice to have it functional instead of just cosmetic.

Zulu · « **Reply #79 on:** February 27, 2014, 11:55:07 PM »

Indy,
You can cut those keys with a sabre saw and a metal cutting blade pretty easily. Rough it out and clean it up with a grinder.
When I have binding hinge bolts, I take an angle grinder with a 4 1/2" grinding disc and clean out the inside of the "U" a little at a time until they work properly.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #80 on:** February 28, 2014, 12:24:04 AM »

I dont have a U.... i have an O..... but the pin is welded w/in a 1/16th of an inch of the hole. which side do i need to enlarge? the side that will hinge OVER the hinge bolt, or the side that stays inside? How much material do you estimate i will have to remove?

My gut is telling me to file out the inside of the hole to make it a U then start elongating the U until it works. Does that sound appropriate?

Iron Balls · « **Reply #81 on:** February 28, 2014, 01:35:20 AM »

I would elongate the hole to the side that goes over the hinge bolt. The strain put on the cap square is rear ward, so you would want the hole tight on the inside of the bolt so it can take up some of the strain.

Zulu · « **Reply #82 on:** February 28, 2014, 01:48:23 AM »

In reply #70, the picture looks like a "U".
Obviously, the hole has to be enlarged where ever it is binding.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #83 on:** February 28, 2014, 03:01:54 AM »

Thanks... I dont recall seeing the hole being larger than the bolt on other photo's i have seen. I was concerned that it would look goofy. Ill have to open up the outside edge of the hole a bit.... Will leave a gap when the capsquare is down, but thats the way its gotta be.

Articifer Tom · « **Reply #84 on:** February 28, 2014, 09:19:04 AM »

There will be no gap just relieve it on the bottom . Think of the ark or swing of the cap . Start with coming down on the key bolt to see relief needed.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #85 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:03:02 AM »

If fits the key bolt just fine. I dont quite follow what you mean by just relieve it on the bottom, but there will be no gap?

Iron Balls · « **Reply #86 on:** February 28, 2014, 11:46:12 AM »

He means, chamfer the hole?

GGaskill · « **Reply #87 on:** February 28, 2014, 04:51:20 PM »

I think part of your problem is the geometry of the capsquare; the flat part is not on the center line of the pivot so the hole and hinge bolt and pin interfere. If you can, make a drawing of the parts both flat and elevated and see where the interference is before attacking it with a file.