Which do you hate more? BLR or Savage 99? "Swampy" analysis needed.

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,
 
   I am thinking that I want a lever action rifle in .308  Winchester, as a 150 yard woods and field rifle for deer.  I am not crazy about the BLR or Savage 99, but they look like the only practical choices.  (Forget the Win 88 and the odd caliber Marlins)
 
   So, out of these two narrow parameters, which do you hate more and why?
 
   Browning BLR in .308, with 20 inch barrel, straight grip and schnaubel forend.   (Factors: expensive detachable magazine, high plastic finish that mars white with every rub, poor trigger without real hope of improvement, can't easily take it apart to clean; though a "plus" seems to be a short lever throw.)
 
  Savage 99, in .308 with 20 inch barrel, either older or later model, straight grip, schnaubel forend, internal magazine with counter.  (Factors:  steel buttplate that kicks like a mule, long lever throw with an annoying "hitch" on the uptake,   poor trigger that apparently smooths up with age, large tendency to crack the buttplate just behind the receiver, requires lever to be yanked all of the way down to load, some real problems firing any Nato ammo due to tight chambers and weak extraction leverage).  But maybe, I could live with one in .30-30, which would eliminate a couple of these problems?
 
   I know that Swampman will chime in.   But, I would love to hear from others as well.
 
   Thanks for all comments.  Please stay within the parameters.
 
    P.S. - this is suppose to be fun.
 
  Mannyrock
 
 

[FPH]

I like my 99 in 30-30.  It is an older model.  Kept in it's parameters, it is a fine rifle.

[Bigeasy]

The BLR, in my opinion.  I have owned several, including a pre-81 model in .358 that I still have.  Short, smooth lever travel is nice, as is the fact the trigger goes with the lever - No more fingers jammed against the trigger, especially when wearing gloves.  Plenty "hunting accurate" - all three of mine would group 1 3/4 inch or less with loads they liked.  My .358 has seen many miles and years in the thick brush up in Maine, and the finish has held up well, though an oil finish could be applied if you don't like the "glossy" look.  These rifles handle and carry well.
 
Downsides?  Well, some complain about the BLR, but then again, it's not hard to find complaints about just about any gun I own from the "Internet Experts".  Must by lucky, as most all mine seem to work fine...
 
Trigger could be better, but it is certainly shootable if you half way know what you are doing.  Mags are not cheap, but how many do you need on a hunting rifle?  I have one spare for my .358, and have never used it. 
 
The Savage 99?  Shot one here and there, but not enough to know the rifle.  Think I "Hate" the BLR less....
 
Finding a used Sako Finnwolf is another option..
 
Larry

[FPH]

Chuck Hawks speaks highly of both rifles.

[Ranger99]

i've had  several blr's
fantastic guns.
all were pre-81
the one i have left is a belg 308
never had any 99's
buddy had one that never had a decent
unbroken scope, so it never did good, but
i think with a new scope not full of moisture
it would have done great.
another buddy has a .250 that does great.


blr- 99- 88- finwolf. . . . you're out of options
i think, unless you want to count the .308 marlin


spin the wheel. . place yer bets. . . .

[ironglow]

Manny;
  Both the BLR and the 99 are treasured rifles by most of their owners.. 
  I wouldn't kick either one out of my gun cabinet! ...Stop baiting. .

[sharps4590]

I don't hate either one....but I do own an 1899 in 303 Savage and a BLR has never graced my gun safe with its presence nor will one.  That gloss turns me off.  If I were in your position I would also be considering a 300 Savage instead of the 308....but that's just me and not pertinent.

[Ranch13]

I've never been around a 99 in 308 with a 20 inch barrel, I do however have one with a 22 inch barrel, and that dreaded steel buttplate. Not sure what all the fuss about that buttplate would be? Anyway the rifle shoots very well with most bullets from 150-190grs. The worst part of it is the rounded bottom is sort of a pain to try and carry when it's cold and a person is wearing heavy gloves, it tends to squirm like a cat when trying to carry it one handed.
 The BLR has a ton of internet myth surrounding it about lousy trigger pull etc. I'm not real sure why the cost of an extra magazine would enter into the discussion on a hunting rifle. The thing holds 4 rounds in the magazine, plus one in the chamber... after 5 rounds it may be time to reevaluate your shooting? We've not shot this rifle with anything heavier than 165's, but with it's favored load it will clover leaf 3 rounds at 100 yds off the bench. After that slim barrel starts to crawl a bit and the groups will open up, but again it's a hunting rifle not something a person is going to take to a bench rest competition..It's twenty inch tube gives up nothing of notice for velocity, 2750 with 165's will take care of most anything likely to be encountered on this continent.
 Bottom line is as far as my preferences it's the BLR81 steel receiver, followed by the Savage 99, and the Blr original design.

 

[ironglow]

  I also tend to stay away from the glossy and showy wood..since I consider my rifles more "tools" than show pieces.  My rifles for the most part, are synthetic stocked, but hey; that's just me.  If others like the beautiful wood, that's their choice and they have a full right to it.
       I believe were I offered a Savage 99 in either .300 Savage or .308 Win., I would feel obligated to go with the .308.  That way I would have more ammo availability..and generally at a lower price.  I could reload down a bit if I wished, to get to the .300 Savage power level.
   I am biased though, since I have been a .308 fan ever since we switched from the M1 Grand to the M14..

[sharps4590]

Well ironglow, if you're going to be so flippin' honest and admit to a bias I guess I have no choice but to do the same thing.  Other than the high gloss finish on the Browning, (and it isn't just Browning, it's any of them with that finish), my entire bias against it is that it's too new!  Now, if you could find a BLR made in ohhhh...say 1919 and chambered in 30 Newton and a nice Ideal receiver sight with some character in its wood I'd be all over that!!!!
 
The 308 is a grand cartridge, only a fool would say otherwise.

[Rick Teal]

I'm of no help - I love them both.
 
I also own a Win. 88.
 
If forced to make a choice it would be the BLR, but that's mainly the highly personal preference based on "feel".

[JD]

Not sure I can "hate" a gun, but if I gotta the BLR comes in 2nd.
  I own two 99's (.308/.358F)and have shot a couple BLR's and the difference came down to cosmetics. Their both lightweight carbines but the thin barrel of a BLR looks really thin and makes the gun look boxy to me. A 99 to me flows gracefully from muzzle to butt.
  The .308 shoots 180 PSP CL's under an inch; 165 HPBT into 5/8". When I found out my cobbled up 308 was a 1914 receiver with a 99E barrel, I dropped from full power 308 to 300 Sav. levels. (2375fps)
I added pads to the butt mainly for reach (31" draw length) and I knew I would be shooting the 358 a lot.
 
But I would still take BLR if you wanted to give me one
 
JD

[hoytcanon]

JD talks like a bowhunter (31" draw length).

I love my 99 in .300 Savage.
I love my pre-81 BLR in .308... although the glossy stock got stripped and refinished in a satin oil.

Not sure about hating on a gun (or girl) that you haven't spent time with... I have spent decades with both gals and love them for what they bring to the table... "chops!"

[mannyrock]

 
  Thanks guys for all of this detailed analysis.  It is exactly what I want to know.   More comments are welcome.   
 
   The only reason I mention the cost of a spare magazine for a BLR is that sooner or later, all magazines wear out, and I don't want to be fooling around with "bending" the lips with plyers.   Since the cost BLR magazines just goes up every years, and Browning has one of the worst reputations for permanently discontinuing magazines, I think the prudent thing to do would be to buy a new spare up front.
 
   Anybody ever fired any milsurp 7.62 Nato through their BLR?   Any feeding or ejection problems?  I'm not a milsurp guy, but I use to use it for the first 5 shots or so when sighting in, to get it within three or four inches of the desired zero.
 
   And by the way, where is the Swampman when you need him?  I know for a fact that he hates both rifles, but I had hoped  he would elucidate.
 
   Thanks, Mannyrock

[pastorp]

Sorry Swampy let you down there mannyrock. But he's made it pretty plain in the past he cares for neither one. Only Browning I have ever heard he say anything good about is the old A5, Belgium made of course.

I carried and hunted with a Belgium made BLR in 308 for quite a few years. These early guns had a oil finish stock and nice walnut. Early on I bought a lot of military match ammo and fired that for practice. As well as reloads. Despite the rumors of tight chambers I never experienced any problems. I loaded mostly 165 gr & 180 gr hunting loads and would usually get 1& 1/2" groups. Plenty good enough for a hunting rifle.

I also have owned several savage 99s in 308. My pick on the savage has always been the 99F pre million SN. These are the best of the lot IMO.

I love them both but the BLRs still live at my house and the 99s don't. However I could be happy with either.

Early on I bought a lifetime supply of those dreaded high priced mags. But I still have not found a hi-cap solution.

Regards,

[Savage .250]

 Hate doesn`t seen to fit the issue.  You don`t like something for some reason or another seems more appropriate.    Plus, you need both to form an opinion.  Hear say is
    ripe with bias. 
 
  As for the BLR..........no interest.  Some have plastic parts. Just not my cup of tea.
 
  The Savage 99 is an icon when your talking about levers.  Still a classic even though they have been out of production for some time.  They may have an issue or two but they have more than stood the test of time.  The "99" was made in more cals than the BLR as well. 
     If you own a Sav 99 you own a piece of gun history. Can`t say that about a BLR.   
     
       
     
     

[ironglow]

Bah Humbug!
    Those rifles are no better than those crummy Holland & Holland or Rigby rifles we see now and then...
 
    If you have them, just send them both to me and I'll take them off your hands.  I'll even pay the shipping!

[Ranch13]

In the firearms section of the Buffalo Bill Historic center , they have on display the prototype of the BLR that John M hisself was working on... So there is some historical precedence for a very fine hunting rifle.

[JPShelton]

I definitely hate the BLR more than the Savage 99.  I can't warm up to the looks of the BLR, or the handling dynamics, or what seems to me to be an overly complicated mechanism.  Conversely, there isn't much about a Savage 99 that I don't like.  A BLR is something I've never had a desire to own.  I do have a desire to own a Savage 99.
 

[cwlongshot]

When you find out... LET ME KNOW!!


I have a early BLR in 358, another '81 in 308, 2 '99's one in 308 and another in 300, two Winchesters, a 88 in 308 and a 94 in 32 spl and of coarse Marlins... but too many of those to list.

I must say like the BLR the best, partially for its caliber and partially for the memories I have hunting with it.

CW

[geobru]

I love my BLR in 308.  I wore that epoxy finish off and part of the checkering is gone.  That came from 30+ years carrying it in the woods in the pursuit of deer and elk. The best group was 1/2 inch at 125 yards. That was a 3 shot group.  The fourth shot I shot the thumb tack that was holding the paper up.
My only experience with the Savage was an older one with a half octagon/round barrel. I didn't like the way it fit.  The comb was too high for me.

[jmayton]

My experience with both comes from my wife's grandfather.  He had a BLR in .308 that was stolen.  The grandkids replaced it for him for Christmas one year.  He mounted a scope and asked me to sight it in for him.  Love the feel and balance, but that thing kicked the dog out of me!  Had a Ruger M77 7mm Mag and a Win 70 in 30-06 that day and both were gentler than that BLR.  But hunting I'd probably never notice.


He also has a Savage 99 in 30-30 that's the go-to loaner gun of the house.  Great trigger, but to me it doesn't feel as natural or balance as well as the BLR.  But that's personal preference.


So for me it comes down to how it feels in my hands.  Other than that, I'd take either.

[mcwoodduck]

My guess as to what swamp man will say is pretty easy,  he will go one of three ways
He will either go for the odd marlin in the 30 caliber that equals the 308. if it has to be a lever action
 He will tell you that if it has to be a 308 then get a Remington 700 bolt action .
Or my best guess is he will tell you 308 is not what 30-06 is and that you should buy a Remington 700 in 30-06. and then go into how 06 is better than 308 and why and then go into how magical the Remington 700 is in it's accuracy.
 

[Oldshooter]

I have seen and used both rifles. MY pick would be the BLR, if only for the aesthetic appeal. (appel esthétique) 

[Swampman]

I hate the Savage 99 less.....no Brownings for me.....

[Lloyd Smale]

im a sucker for an old classic gun but never liked the 99s. They just didnt look like a lever gun should look like. Ive owned a few but they didnt stick around long. Ive had experience with two blrs. One in 358 that was a tack driver that i should have held on to and one in 308 i bought dad for a retirement pressent years ago. His has been a good gun. It shoots 1 1/2 5 shot groups with factory ammo and im sure if i ever fooled with loading for it could get in down to moa. Both were reliable and had smooth actions. Both needed trigger work but what lever guns doesnt. The blr will never be a 1886 winchester but it is probably the best lever gun ever to be chambered in 308

[T.R.]

Savage model 99 is a keeper!
 
TR
 

[cwlongshot]

Savage model 99 is a keeper!
 
TR
 

ANOTHER GREAT PIC!!

Swampy LOOK OUT!!  TR can snap a great picture too!!

CW

[geezerbiker]

I don't know enough about the Savage 99 to comment.  But I got to shoot a friends BLR in .308 a bunch so I'm sort of qualified.  The first shot out of a cold barrel is goes right where you put it.  The second is off a bit and after the 3rd shot, it starts to pattern rather than group. 

It's a great hunting rifle if you don't think you'll need more that 3 rounds before letting it cool down.  Good for deer but in a target rich hog hunt, I'd want something else.

Tony

[J'hawker]

I have a couple of 99s in 300 Savage and a BLR in 358.  I really like both models - the 99s because they are so iconic and carry so well and the BLR because of the cartridge and the handling.  I'm not ashamed to say I even like the shiny finish. 

As for the concern over the BLR magazine cost, have you ever tried to replace a 99 rotary magazine?  Replacement cost can be a draw between the two.