NEW H&R barrels

[workinman]

Hi, I just watched a you tube video by some young fella who claims that new H&R barrels are lacking in heat treat to make them more affordable but adversely effecting accuracy.
I am new hear and to NEF/H&R firearms.
Can anyone confirm or deny or otherwise set me straight on this matter?
Thanks.

Bryan

[tacklebury]

Group from my .223 @ .31" c-c

 
This is a .87" c-c group with my .45-70 Buffalo Classic and Iron sights using Hornady 300 gr. HP's over 47 gr. Reloader7

 
There are many such groups by members here and I've managed to create loads for sub MOA groups with all my handi's except the .45 LC.  It consistently goes about 2", which is great for a 300 gr. Bullet and knocks the snot out of deer to 100 yards. 

[rfd]

who starts these rumors???

[Dinny]

Let's keep that rumor running. That should make a few more of those "more affordable" barrels available for me.

Thanks, Dinny

[revbc]

Here's 3 shots from my 454.  Seems to do ok to me.

[cwlongshot]

Target braggin' time!! OH BOY OH BOY... I have a couple too!!  ....

Here is three from a 22'' 45-70 @ 100 yards..



Here is three from my 356 Winchester..


Here is five from my 22Hornet also at 100 yards.


Here is a couple from my 223 Varmint at 100 yards.


Here is three form my 32-20 with 123g bullets


Here is my 307 Winchester at 100


Here is three shots form my 12 USH W/Buck hammers at 100 yards.


Here is my shorty Maxi with 170GDSP at 100


Here is a 22'' Maxi at 100 with 180SSP and 1680


I would say that these barrels are crap and don't shoot as well as they probably could... 

CW

[LaOtto222]

Center fire H&R barrels are made from the same steel as any of the major rifle makers. They are treated the same as others. The making of the barrels are different. Remington and Ruger are forged. H&R, Marlin and Savage are button rifled. After market barrel makers are usually button rifled or cut rifling, but still use the same 4140 steel for their blued barrels. As you can see from the posted pictures here, the H&R can shoot as well as most factory bolt guns. It follows that their barrels are as well made as the bolt gun manufacturer's barrels. it is obvious that the person that made the video does not know what he is talking about.

Good Shooting and Good Luck

[petemi]

I've owned and shot rifles for 61 years.  I now have fourteen Handis.  If they were a cheap bunch of crap, would I own so many?  I should mention that if a rifle doesn't shoot I get rid of it......I haven't gotten rid of any Handis.  I had one problem rifle, a .22-250.  I couldn't get the group I wanted.  Our friends at H&R took care of the problem and it is a tack driver today.  The Handi will yield the most bang for the buck.  American made, quality materials and easily reached customer service.  The regulars on this forum are Handi experts and will walk you through any questions or problems you may have.  The FAQs and Handi Basics are invaluable.  Add it all together, and you can't beat a Handi Rifle....or this forum and the Handiholics that reside here.

Pete

[rfd]

many years and decades ago i had an h&r (i believe the 158 with mannlicher stock) in .22 hornet.  it was a tack driver out to 100 yards using my hand loads.  why in h3ll i sold it off still baffles me to this day - an idiot move on my part.  fast forward 50+ years and i bought my 2nd h&r, a buff classic - what a dang good shooter!  now i have another h&r coming (an ultra hunter) and i'm plotting my third handi rifle purchase.  problem with h&r barrels?  hah!!! nonsense!!!  problem with buying more handi's?  You Bet!! 

[LONGTOM]

I would say that these barrels are crap and don't shoot as well as they probably could... 

CW

 
and to that I would reply BS!!! 
 
 
LONGTOM

[PigBoy Crabshaw]

First shots with a new test load of 4064 from my 308 Ultra.
-gary

[Metaldoc]

All these targets prove there are some good shooting Handi's out there...  BUT   The OP mentioned the video saying NEW H&R barrels.     

My question is what is meant by NEW?   I took it to mean that the barrels NOW (Maybe since Remington took over?) being made are lacking in some stage of heat treatment.

IF the targets posted are from your older Handi's (and many of them are) then they don't prove or disprove the OP's question.   

Not trying to be quarrelsome... just looking for an accurate, relevant answer.   

[AtlLaw]

new H&R barrels are lacking in heat treat to make them more affordable

 
 
I never really thought about it, but I wasn't aware that any barrels were "heat treated."      Assuming of course you mean "heat treated" in the same way that rifle actions are.   
 
Can sumbody 'splain it to me?   

[petemi]

My "new", Reminton made .243 shoots sub-MOA at 300 yards.  My "new" .223 and .22-250 do the same.  That's 2.5 inches with this old fart behind the trigger.  Forget about old vs. new.  They all shoot well.  My "old" Handis do the same within their caliber limitations.  My "old" .45-70 will shoot the snot out of a deer, coyote or fox at three to four hunderd yards, and the fox is a pretty small target.  I dropped one not too long ago at 360 yards.  Text book shot...right behind the shoulder.  You do your part and the Handi will take care of the rest.

Pete

[gcrank1]

What are HIS qualifications to make this determination?
Maybe he really meant 'stress relieved'? Most of us periodically relieve stress by shooting our Handies.........
Iffn he didnt give any kind of a change date of 'process' just what does HE mean by 'new barrels'? There's a lot missing here.........but by those groups, it ain't 'us'.

[petemi]

gcramk1. I think I'm going out back for some "stress relief"    My Handis don't need it, but perhaps I do.

Pete

[hoytcanon]

I can't speak to the quality of the barrel steel on new vs old, with regard to "hardness..."  but with regard to accuracy, I have noted no change... with regard to "finish" the new barrels have a smoother finish and better bluing in my experience... and we have recently noted that the new triggers are better than the older triggers... my observations.

[cwlongshot]

I think there may be some confusion with these parts for the H&Rs in general...  I find action parts to be surface hardened and even then to varing degrees of quality. This is why I STRESS to all doing a trigger job, SMOOTH the parts try NOT to remove material. Have you herd of the ''ever changing'' trigger weight? I know Timmy has we have spoken on the subject in the past. Well thats very likely because the ''smith'' ground/filed thru the hardening. Now if needed, you could easily RE HARDEN these worked parts by heating to a dull red and dropping into dirty engine oil to cool. This will effectively SURFACE harden the part. If I am not mistaken, this is all in the FAQ's.

I about gaurenty these barrels are of lower overall quality of manufacture. If they where not, they would not be at the price point that they are. But are they so bad that they are unuseable... I think we have sufficiently proven that this rifle can shoot and in many different calibers and gauges. 

CW

[hoytcanon]

I about gaurenty these barrels are of lower overall quality of manufacture. If they where not, they would not be at the price point that they are.

We all know we are not buying Shilen or Krieger or Broughton barrel with an OEM Handi... the question is the barrel of a "lesser" quality on the new Handi's vs the older manufactured Handi's... personally I doubt it... the were already at the lowest price point, cheapening the quality intentionally would place the manufacturer in danger of liable for any potential safety issues regarding the barrels... for obvious reasons there is a "floor" to cheapening barrel quality... I suspect that Handi's have been there for 20+ years and they function just fine.   

[cwlongshot]

I about gaurenty these barrels are of lower overall quality of manufacture. If they where not, they would not be at the price point that they are.

We all know we are not buying Shilen or Krieger or Broughton barrel with an OEM Handi... the question is the barrel of a "lesser" quality on the new Handi's vs the older manufactured Handi's... personally I doubt it... the were already at the lowest price point, cheapening the quality intentionally would place the manufacturer in danger of liable for any potential safety issues regarding the barrels... for obvious reasons there is a "floor" to cheapening barrel quality... I suspect that Handi's have been there for 20+ years and they function just fine.   

I believe they quality went UP after Marlins purchase or H&R as Marlin makes a decent accurate barrel. Now if they are made to the same standards or to Remington standards I do not know. I can only hope. Remington made a accurate rifle barrel...

CW

[hoytcanon]

I believe they quality went UP after Marlins purchase or H&R as Marlin makes a decent accurate barrel. Now if they are made to the same standards or to Remington standards I do not know. I can only hope. Remington made a accurate rifle barrel... CW

I have noted before that the finish quality is definitely better on the newer guns... whether or not the steel quality has changed I don't know, but I agree that it likely to improve somewhat if anything... if Remlin got its claws into a premium brand, I would be concerned... the margin for "cheaping out" would be greater.

[rfd]

i've got that 45-70 stainless barrel ultra hunter due to arrive later this week.  be interesting to see what kinda quality is happening there.  fwiw, i have a remington 1911 45acp that i bought last january and it's a heckuva really good semi auto and more accurate than me (as bench testing has proven) ... it also has a stainless steel barrel.

 

[jeepmann1948]

I think that the "soft" steel barrels can be just as accurate as the 4140/ Stainless barrels They just won't last as long.Another consideration on a Handi (or break open any other for that matter) the barrel also contains the chamber unsupported by a receiver.Softer steel such as 1040 is not recognized as suitable for higher pressure chamberings
 A soft steel barrel using a low pressure cartridge and lead bullets can be very accurate and last a long time. Conversely a 4140 or a Stainless barrel while many times stronger may be "shot out" very quickly. Some of the extremely overbore wildcats come to mind.
 Heat treating is done before the barrel is rifled or machined because not only are the properties of the steel changed but the dimensions as well.Also if steel is over hardened it becomes brittle.
 The biggest complaint I have with H&R is a lot of the barrels are not centered. When I re chamber a Handi barrel I use a 4 jaw chuck equipped lathe to properly center the barrel before reaming. This corrects part of the off center primer strikes but not all because of varying center lines of the barrel to locking latch and even the firing pin hole in the receiver.
 Please do not think they are junk.Benchrest quality they are not  BUT they are/can be very good hunting rifles. I own and shoot some very accurate bench guns and I would not consider taking one of them hunting, but of the 30 plus Handis I own I would take any of them hunting (within the limitations of the cartridge)
George

[tobster]

Are you guys sure this thread wasn't started by a straw man so you could show off your cloverleafs?

[rdlange]

Well... they're all extractors... I prefer ejectors.  Hard to get over the preference.  Just saying.

[hoytcanon]

Well... they're all extractors... I prefer ejectors.  Hard to get over the preference.  Just saying.

I vastly prefer extractors... Because; 1.  I don't worry about follow-up shots, I just make the first one count 2. If I was concerned about second shots I wouldn't be shooting a break action single 3. I hate searching for brass. 4. I hate loosing brass even more 5. Ejectors put brass under other shooter's feet at the range 5. It is a more positive extraction 6. I can get the calibers I want without getting distracted by whether or not it has an ejector... just saying.

[rfd]

Well... they're all extractors... I prefer ejectors.  Hard to get over the preference.  Just saying.

I vastly prefer extractors... Because; 1.  I don't worry about follow-up shots, I just make the first one count 2. If I was concerned about second shots I wouldn't be shooting a break action single 3. I hate searching for brass. 4. I hate loosing brass even more 5. Ejectors put brass under other shooter's feet at the range 5. It is a more positive extraction 6. I can get the calibers I want without getting distracted by whether or not it has an ejector... just saying.

i agree.  'course it's all just personal preference. 

i'll take the extractor over ejector any day.  it's annoying enuf to hafta search around for 45acp brass, don't need to do that as well with a non-auto rifle.

 

[workinman]

Thanks guys. I kind of figured this would generate some fine pictures and a wealth of knowledge and experience. I will be purchasing my first handi soon. I always liked Ronald Reagans reply to Mondale in the debate about youth and inexperience.....I guess it applies here too.

Workinman

[wtroger]

BS. The barrels aren't heat treated the hp rifle barrels are 4140 CM steel the stainless barrels are 416 they are tough but not hard.

[BAGTIC]

Been shooting 'ejectors' for over 55 years. NEVER had any problem controlling my brass. What have I been doing wrong?